SEAN1951

Starting Problem

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SEAN1951   

Well my camper still retains it name, SOME TIMES. Replaced fuel pump and drove from S.C. to Jacksonville Fla. and it would not crank, spin fast but no light. $ hours later I turned the key just for the heck of it and it fired right up ?? Drove down to Orlando and started twice a day and every time it started, drove back to Jacksonville and no start, tried this morning and it fired right up ??? Any ideas ? Thanks Jim

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wolfe10   

Sean,

Please tell us more about your coach:

What year model and chassis?

How many miles on it?

Any other symptoms?

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SEAN1951   

Thanks for the reply, 2000, 2830G, Ford V-10, 62,000 miles.

It started every time I tried today but would not start yesterday after many tries  also I have no dashboard lights, running lights also no radio. I pulled every fuse all good, changed the fuel pump relay. I am going to clean the negative connections, engine, frame and generator. I still have front head lights, door open chime, overhead lights, horn and I do not have flash brights but have headlight brights, brake lights and blinkers are fine. It yells FUSE !! Thanks for all ideas, Jim

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Jim, does it crank? does it crank as fast as normal? Can you check fuel pressure? Have you changed the fuel filter's? Make sure all the electrical connections are good including ground. 

Let us know what you find. 

Bill

 

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manholt   

Alternator, tension and condition  of belt?  Water in batteries and voltage at start battery?  Ignition switch, is it lose or you could have a loos wire or ground at switch or solenoid.

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jleamont   

Sean, when you say "no dashboard lights" do you mean nighttime illumination or no warning lights when you turn the key on? Just to be clear, when you turn the ignition on does the engine light and others light up?

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SEAN1951   

Hello, I don't have any night time illumination lights, dimmer on dashboard lights is inop, flash, brights inop, running lights inop, tried starting it again this morning it would not start. I started it at least 4 times yesterday and no problem firing right off, starter spins the engine fast enough to get oil pressure, that pretty good. Being a old motor head this has me baffled and I bought a code reader and did not get a code trying to start or when running? This is a fine running engine, no smoke and not a lick of trouble before. Thanks for all the feed back, Jim

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jleamont   

Jim, when the problem occurs, just prior to cranking the engine over does the engine light come on (this will tell me if the Powertrain Control Module is getting power)? Can you hear the fuel pump buzz (might need a helper to walk back near the rear wheels to listen).

You could try the code reader route, let me know the code/codes you retrieve if any.

I would carefully inspect the fuse boxes, one under the hood and one under the dash, look for water signs or loose connections, mostly at the power feeds. The one under the hood unsnaps from its mount, you should have enough wiring to be able to flip it over, unsnap the back protective cover and look inside for loose connections again.

 

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jleamont   

Fuses 3 and 10 under the dash operate the instrument cluster illumination, Fuse 8 is some engine controls.

 

 

Capture.PNG

Capture 2.PNG

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SEAN1951   

Thanks again for the replies, i tried it twice first thing this morning and no go, boy was I sweating it with only a 1/8 tank of LP and upper 20,s and low 30's in Jacksonville Fla tonight!

Tried it an hour later and it started right up, can't figure it out! Will buy a hand full of mini fuses tomorrow and change all the ones that was mentioned, I also tried the code trick no codes with the key on or running??

The shop mentioned to examine the grounds, engine, frame and coach. I will keep plugging and hope this electrical gremlin is found. With all this computer and electric stuff us old motor heads don't have a chance, plugs, points and condenser, what was wrong with that !

Thanks again for every reply, Jim

 

 

 

 

 

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manholt   

Joe.  Why would you want someone to listen for the fuel pump in rear of coach?  This is a V10 gasser, not a DP!

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wolfe10   
25 minutes ago, manholt said:

Joe.  Why would you want someone to listen for the fuel pump in rear of coach?  This is a V10 gasser, not a DP!

Fuel pump is in the fuel tank.

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I have a class A Workhorse (GM) chassis, and my starter is doing the same thing - intermittent starting.  Starts about 60% of the time on the first try. When it doesn’t start, I have to keep flipping the ignition key until it finally starts. I can hear the starting solenoid engaging, but the starter fails to turn over. I checked the power and ground connections an they seem fine. Lately, it’s been starting every time.  Could it be a bad starter?  It’s 11 years old with 67k miles. 

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jleamont   
42 minutes ago, manholt said:

I would look for a loose wire or ground between the solenoid and the starter!

He said it cranks, will not start. I have seen fuse box problems cause that, which in turn shuts the fuel pump down and or will not power up the powertrain control module, the dead giveaway if the PCM has power is the Service engine soon light, illuminating when the key is on.

Neutral safety switch cuts the starter off, so no crank/no start would be the complaint.

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Agree with jleamont.  Loose or broken wire on solenoid (1 wire should be ground to block, another may be for starter and another provides power up to instrument panel) will make starting intermittent and/or prevent dash lights from functioning.  I learned after replacing my starter and had a wire on incorrect solenoid lug. Good luck.

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SEAN1951   
On 1/2/2018 at 8:58 AM, jleamont said:

Jim, when the problem occurs, just prior to cranking the engine over does the engine light come on (this will tell me if the Powertrain Control Module is getting power)? Can you hear the fuel pump buzz (might need a helper to walk back near the rear wheels to listen).

On 1/3/2018 at 2:46 PM, poppainmd said:

Agree with jleamont.  Loose or broken wire on solenoid (1 wire should be ground to block, another may be for starter and another provides power up to instrument panel) will make starting intermittent and/or prevent dash lights from functioning.  I learned after replacing my starter and had a wire on incorrect solenoid lug. Good luck.

 

You could try the code reader route, let me know the code/codes you retrieve if any.

I would carefully inspect the fuse boxes, one under the hood and one under the dash, look for water signs or loose connections, mostly at the power feeds. The one under the hood unsnaps from its mount, you should have enough wiring to be able to flip it over, unsnap the back protective cover and look inside for loose connections ag

Yep, the check engine light comes on when key is turned and goes 

 

On 1/2/2018 at 8:58 AM, jleamont said:

Jim, when the problem occurs, just prior to cranking the engine over does the engine light come on (this will tell me if the Powertrain Control Module is getting power)? Can you hear the fuel pump buzz (might need a helper to walk back near the rear wheels to listen).

You could try the code reader route, let me know the code/codes you retrieve if any.

I would carefully inspect the fuse boxes, one under the hood and one under the dash, look for water signs or loose connections, mostly at the power feeds. The one under the hood unsnaps from its mount, you should have enough wiring to be able to flip it over, unsnap the back protective cover and look inside for loose connections again.

 

Here is the update and it is not good. Went through all the fuses and it seems that the tail pipe smells like gas fumes but no start, found bad fuse and I now have running lights again. My son is pretty good with trucks and he tried the code reader and no codes or history of codes. I have tried to start it in P and in N and moved around some while cranking no luck. Battery is good and it spins very fast and I keep the battery charger on to maintain good voltage. For some odd ball reason it must not get any spark, hoping to get someone to look at it tomorrow. Finally warming up some in sunny Florida. thanks again for all the ideas, Jim 

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bm02tj   

It could be a crank or camshaft sensor 

You need a shop with the real analyser not just a code reader 

Also a good operator some are stupid  

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SEAN1951   

Well rented a car and headed to S.C. Thanks for all the help. bm02tj my son came up with the same info on the crank and camshaft sensor. Amazing how it would crank up and run like there nothing wrong and run even stronger with the new fuel pump and it finally gave up the ghost. This time of year they are swamped with RV business in Florida, flocks of snow birds heading south. Will update when I find out what ills it. I can't thank you guys enough for all the help, thanks Jim

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jleamont   

Jim, with a traditional scan tool (not a code reader) you can monitor engine RPM's while cranking the engine over and each of those sensors to see which one isn't contributing a signal, of course you would have to be experiencing the concern at that time. Murphy's law it will start every time while connected :D.

The crank sensor on a V10 is buried behind the AC compressor, passenger side bottom front of the engine. see if you can take a peek with a mirror, make sure to follow the harness up the front of the engine, look for chaff points. If you disconnect the connector from it look closely for corrosion inside on the pins.

Cam sensors are on the front cover, top side and should be relatively easy to get to.

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SEAN1951   

Thanks for the help jleamont, I sure hope this is all there is to this adventure. It sure has been a trying time, if it did not fit our budget and need I would get rid of it. Thanks again for all the help. Jim

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