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Steering Problem


Best Answer thrushl, 05 May 2013 - 08:57 AM

Why couldn't you get the pump and matching motor from one of the HRs at VISEON RV and put them in your RV as a set?

 

Well,...because all HR'S don't use that pump and the pressures control fan speed which controls the amount of cooling.  Without the data plates, http://en.visonerv.com/ can't determine the fan speed. As my coach is designed to work at the highest speed, there is a 90+ percent chance that I would suffer over heating.  This is the last part to replace to complete a 15K hydraulic system rebuild caused by a pump failure. clearly I don't want to any problems after this budget buster.  

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#1 thrushl

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 10:15 AM

Ok folks, I REALLY need help with this one. I have a 2005 HR Navigator. I started overheating and the power steering went out. I got it to a shop, the only one in town and they ordered a new power steering pump (which also powers my cooling fans for the engine) and a new steering gear. It turns fully to the left, but not all the way to the right. When it gets a little over half way to the right, it gets tight and then stops before it makes a complete right to the stop. What to try next? The shop is stumped and I'm no mechanic.

Thanks in advance.

Leo
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"There are many things given to us in this life. What we do with such things; that is the true mark of a man!"

 

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#2 hermanmullins

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 11:35 AM

Leo,
Sorry for your problems. You need to give as much information as you can about your engine. Mfg., Model, Horse Power, ans so forth.
You spoke of the Power steering pump and the hydraulic powered fan. You also stated that it (?) would turn fully to the left but not all the way to the right. Are you speaking of the Fan or New Pump?
There are some smart folks out there but they need more information.
Hope someone can come to your rescue.

Herman
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#3 pframe

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 12:46 PM

It sounds like someone maybe installed the pitman arm on the steering gear in the incorrect position.

To check it, you will have to disconnect the drag link from the pitman arm and with the engine off, turn the steering wheel all the way to the left. Count the turns as you turn to the right. Now go back exactly halfway and you will find the center of the gear.

If the front tires are in the straight ahead position, you can reattach the pitman arm back on the gear in the correct position and your steering should turn both directions the same amount.
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#4 wolfe10

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 01:00 PM

I will add to the excellent advice by Mr Lorntson from Precision Frame (this is what he does for a living):

Depending on what steering gear it is (Sheppard for example) once you have the pitman arm/steering gear properly centered, you also have to set left and right total angles that the steering gear turns and absolutely make sure that there is still a gap between the steering knuckle at max turn and the steering stop (or you will bend things!). Very easily done with the two small screws on the outside of the Sheppard steering box.

Most axle manufacturers have on-line manuals (I know Rockwell/Meritor does) that describe the process-- it is NOT difficult.
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#5 DickandLois

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 01:35 PM

This is starting to look like the same issue, or very close to the problem on this thread. The difference being the steering arm maybe at issue.

http://community.fmc...-2005-imperial/

Rich.
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#6 RVerOnTheMove

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 04:25 PM

You also stated that it (?) would turn fully to the left but not all the way to the right.


He was referring to the wheels (or steering wheel) themselves.
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#7 hermanmullins

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 05:38 PM

Thinks, I now understand that he is referring to the steering wheel.

Now my theory: If the coach turned OK before he had the pump replaced and now it has problems to the right, It could not be the pitman arm in the wrong position. I have worked an many vehicles and never heard of removing the pitman arm to replace a power steering pump. If the pump went sour and debris got into the lines. It may have gone into the right side if it was turned to the right when the new pump was installed. I don't know if it can be done but is there a way to flush the system? If the front end is raised off the ground will the wheels turn both directions without the engine running? Will the wheels turn both directions by hand? They might try running the engine with the wheels off the ground and turning the wheel both directions several times.

If there is still a problem it seems to me to be in the steering box.

Another thought, was the coach towed into the shop? If so something may have been bent.

????
Herman
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"Fair winds and Following Seas"

Herman & Bobbie Mullins, F302225
Whitewright, TEXAS
'02 Monaco Dynasty, 40-foot 400 HP ISL
Chevrolet Silverado (M & G air brakes)
U.S. Navy PR-3 1956 to 1964

Southern Region Vice President for Six-State Rally Association
Lone Star Chapter FMCA Past President
South Central Lucky Rollers
Rally in The Pasture


#8 wolfe10

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 06:20 PM

Herman,

In his first post, he said he had the steering gear replaced.
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#9 hermanmullins

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 08:29 PM

Sorry, I read and reread and finally saw the steering gear. But I still feel that the best way to check out the box and pitman arm would be to have the wheels off the ground.

Now a question. Even if the pitman arm is out of position it would still move smoothly in both directions, right? Maybe too far to the left and not far enough to the right. Aren't pitman arms keyed?

Herman
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"Fair winds and Following Seas"

Herman & Bobbie Mullins, F302225
Whitewright, TEXAS
'02 Monaco Dynasty, 40-foot 400 HP ISL
Chevrolet Silverado (M & G air brakes)
U.S. Navy PR-3 1956 to 1964

Southern Region Vice President for Six-State Rally Association
Lone Star Chapter FMCA Past President
South Central Lucky Rollers
Rally in The Pasture


#10 wolfe10

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 08:58 PM

Lorntson's procedure of centering the steering wheel, centering the front wheels and then installing the pitman arm is the correct start.

And most pitman arms are not keyed, but splined so they can be installed in a number of different positions.
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#11 hermanmullins

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 08:03 AM

I just figured out Leo's problem. :huh: He must have had the coach in a garage in North Carolina. Every shop down there sets every car to turn Left. Just an old NASCAR trick.
:D :D :D
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"Fair winds and Following Seas"

Herman & Bobbie Mullins, F302225
Whitewright, TEXAS
'02 Monaco Dynasty, 40-foot 400 HP ISL
Chevrolet Silverado (M & G air brakes)
U.S. Navy PR-3 1956 to 1964

Southern Region Vice President for Six-State Rally Association
Lone Star Chapter FMCA Past President
South Central Lucky Rollers
Rally in The Pasture


#12 oldmarine

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 12:01 PM

Hi all,

I worked front end all of my life. If it where my problem to solve, I would disconnect the pitman arm, then turn the steering
wheel and see if the hard spot at approx. centerpoint of steering is still there. If it is then the replacement steering gear
was not adjusted properly. Its a simple adjustment that is done on top of the pinion. Also if it is too tight the coach will
be steering sensitive when driving.

If the steering (with pitman arm disconected) steers freely, then I would agree with Herman, something got damaged during
towing or the coach hit a object (rock,curb etc.) before it came to a stop.

Sincerely,

old marine
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#13 wolfe10

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 02:52 PM

Old marine,

Many of the larger steering boxes (Sheppard for example) do not have external adjustment for play. Yes, most of the smaller ones on gas rigs do.

If we knew what gear he had, we would all be more specific about what needs to be done.

Hopefully the OP will come back and let us know the outcome and cause.
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#14 pframe

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 12:35 PM

Being that the coach in question is a Holiday Rambler with a hydraulic fan, I can assume fairly accurately that the steering gear is probably a Sheppard MD100, which is not adjustable. No mention of why the gear was replaced when the problem seemed to be a bad power steering pump, but someplaces guess at problems rather than make proper diagnoisis and repair based on the diagnostic information. Therefore, the steering binding problem is probably on internal to the gear. Hard to figure the correct repair when the coach is not in my shop, but sounds like someone is not familiar enough with steering systems.
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#15 thrushl

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 02:34 PM

Thanks for the great advice everyone. Well we started week six at the shop. It's in West Virgina and yes, they didn't see a problem as long as it went left. That is the only direction the track goes.....

Pitman arm is centered. Yes, this is very much like the other problem with the cooling fans as well. The mechanic doesn't even want to think about the cooling until he sorts the steering issue. The first indication I had a problem was the coach started to overheat. Before i could get off the freeway exit, the steering got impossible to turn to the right. I let it cool off and steering was fine until the engine started to overheat again. I was able to limp with the heat and cool off effort the three miles to the shop that Coach Net found. Well it was the only shop. They checked it out and the power steering/fan pump was working fine when it was cool, but would stop pumping and start smoking when it got to operating temp. So, they replaced that pump first. But, that did not fix the problem. So they replaced the steering gear. Still did not fix the problem. As the steering gear is a rebuild they now think the one they put in might be bad, but they are not sure.

I may have to get West Virgina plates and my address changed because I think I am going to be living in this shop forever. It would be nicer if they had hookups. Oh well.....

I am about to pay the two thousand dollars to get towed away from here to find someone to fix this. I am about to go crazy.... Heck, at least they are still throwing parts at it. Soon they will replace the sink to address the steering issue and I will have a new coach. Has anyone ever junked a 600K coach for this? I may be the first. Heck, the mechnanic invited us to thanksgiving dinner. Ummmmm. Could he be telling me something?
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"There are many things given to us in this life. What we do with such things; that is the true mark of a man!"

 

2005 Holiday Rambler Navigator

2007 Jeep Liberty in Coach Trailer

Traveling the country with two cats and a wife!

 


#16 thrushl

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 02:37 PM

You are so right and I REALLY wish it was in your shop good Sir.... How far do you travel? BIG SMILE.... Sorta...
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"There are many things given to us in this life. What we do with such things; that is the true mark of a man!"

 

2005 Holiday Rambler Navigator

2007 Jeep Liberty in Coach Trailer

Traveling the country with two cats and a wife!

 


#17 thrushl

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 07:08 PM

This is starting to look like the same issue, or very close to the problem on this thread. The difference being the steering arm maybe at issue.

http://community.fmc...-2005-imperial/

Rich.

 

OK, Rich.  You once said even a blind squirrel finds a nut and you sure did here.  

 

Well friends, we are still homeless since Aug of last year.  Here is the sad update. 

 

The PROBLEM is that the fan drive pump running off the transmission ate itself.  That put so much metal into the system that the filter plugged and went into bypass letting the metal into the fluid storage tank shared with the steering gear.  That metal then ate the steering gear pump and the steering gear. 

 

For those keeping score, Good Sam;s warranty/insurance calls that a major component failure, well three to be precise and has only authorized replacing one part at a time,  Now the bad thing is that every-time they put a new part in the system and flush the fluid, they still get metal and put metal into the new parts they just installed.

 

After waiting for four months for the magic fan pump on the transmission, today we decided that we need the fan drive motor and all new hoses as they can't get the metal to flush after seven filters and 178 gallons of synthetic hydraulic fluid.  Glad that is not my bill. At least I hope not.....

 

I'm calling Gord at Nova Hydraulics in Indianapolis like RN1953 did last year and hope he has one more of those fan drive motors in stock.  If not,...well you know they say three months wait for a new one.  

 

To cry on the forum, this has us looking at houses again after only two great years on the road.  Did every thing Monaco put on these come from one of a kind parts?  :-)

 

On the bright side, It looks like all those parts will be new.

 

Leo


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"There are many things given to us in this life. What we do with such things; that is the true mark of a man!"

 

2005 Holiday Rambler Navigator

2007 Jeep Liberty in Coach Trailer

Traveling the country with two cats and a wife!

 


#18 DickandLois

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 06:01 PM

Hi Leo, What a Bummer !!!!!

With the coach being out of service for this long I hope you are in a nice part of the country out of the Cold.

Sure hope Nova has what you need and that this trail of tears ends.

One would think that ESP would look at the entire system as an issue when its obvious the metal had contaminated every part of the system.

How many miles are on the coach now ?

 

Keep us informed regarding your progress.

Rich. 


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#19 johnschiesser

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 09:28 PM

If you can't get new parts a good place to get used ones is http://rvparts.visonerv.com/.  Phone number 606 843 9889. They are currently wrecking out 21 late model Holiday Rambler diesel pusher motor homes.


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#20 thrushl

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 11:43 AM

Hi Leo, What a Bummer !!!!!

With the coach being out of service for this long I hope you are in a nice part of the country out of the Cold.

Sure hope Nova has what you need and that this trail of tears ends.

One would think that ESP would look at the entire system as an issue when its obvious the metal had contaminated every part of the system.

How many miles are on the coach now ?

 

Keep us informed regarding your progress.

Rich. 

 

 

Hi Rich.  I only have 60K on it and have had the entire system flushed four times with filter change and filter change every 5k which is way more than the book requires in an effort to avoid this type of issue.

 

Sorry, stuck in Beckly WV.  Nice people but not a tourist location.


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"There are many things given to us in this life. What we do with such things; that is the true mark of a man!"

 

2005 Holiday Rambler Navigator

2007 Jeep Liberty in Coach Trailer

Traveling the country with two cats and a wife!

 





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