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Battery Cut-off Switch Not Working


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#1 F355197

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 04:44 PM

I have a 2003 Monaco Executive with the ISM 500 engine. I cannot establish 12 volt house power using the battery cut-off switch located on the passenger side console. This switch has a sliding release lock and the manual states that the switch locks in the ON position however mine will not lock. When I do release the lock and push it to ON I can hear the solenoid(s) click but even while holding the switch in the ON position I still do not have 12 volt power. I have replaced the solenoid that has 4 terminals (2 primary terminals for 2/0 wire and 2 secondary) and there is no change. Does anyone know if the switch is supposed to lock in place or is the voltage supposed to be latched in by a momentary contact of the switch? Are there other components that I could test/replace to correct this problem?
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#2 desertdeals69

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 06:13 PM

Is that an Intellitec switching system?
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#3 F355197

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 06:28 PM

I don't think it is an Intellitec system. I do have the Itellitec for control of the water pump but this seems to be the normal 12 volt solenoids There are actually 2 solenoids and the one upsteam of the 4 terminal unit I replaced has 2 terminals and there are wires going to the 4 terminal unit.
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#4 DickandLois

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 04:41 AM

There are 2 ways the relays where wired. These are latching relays and the switch is a momentary rocking switch that toggles them off an on. The difference in the wiring is where the fuse link(s) is connected. The links are gray in color and outwardly show no sign of being open. Both fuse links need to be good and both relays need to energize to get the system on line.
There should be a Purple wire from the switch to the relay, at the switch there will be a white wire going to ground and the other end of the Purple wire. Purple wire to center connection of the SW.#2-- White wire to connection #1
Is this what you see ? The switch does not need to be locked to keep the circuit active ! The lock is to prevent from inadvertently turning off the 12 volt system.
12 Volts should be present on 1 side of each relay, these are high current circuits with large fuses so do not short out these cables. One gets a large spark if you do !!!! and the fusses are expensive and special. Not found at the auto supply store.

The relay part number listed is KIB 16615055 Momentary, Location Rear Run Box. Page # 196 Monaco prints.
Edit: 1-18-2013
The latching relay is an effective battery disconnect device. The LR9806 is a single-pulse latching relay. It only requires a short "pulse" of voltage to activate or deactivate the relay. Since the LR9806 does not require constant voltage, it is one less load on the battery.

http://www.kibenterp...m/pdlr9806.html

Edit : 1-19-2013
This device feeds one of the Latching Relays and could be a part of your problem.
Original equipment on high end Monaco motorhomes since 1995! The Model LE-315 Keep-It-Up and the Model LE-415 Super Keep-It-Up are battery maintainers. They are fully automatic devices which are used in motorhomes to keep the chassis battery fully charged when the coach is plugged into shore power, or the AC generator is operating. Both will deliver up to 15 Amp. charging current. The Model LE-415 automatically shuts down when the coach is dry camping to protect the coach battery, and features a green light to show when it is active. Patented in the US and Canada.

http://johnstoecker....he-Product.html

Rich.
NOTE! Herman, Your coach should be wired the same! Why there are 2 different wiring methods ?? both accomplish the same result.
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#5 hermanmullins

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 08:18 AM

Rich,
F355197's coach is an Executive and one year newer. I have two of the Battery switches in the battery compartment. Coach and chassis. I to have the Battery switch in the step well wall. It is an off/on switch. For what ever the reason, I can turn all three off and I still have a small drain on my batteries. I haven't gone looking for the culprit since I keep it plugged in all the time it is in the barn. I have forgotten to plug it in and 4 or 5 days later I will find the batteries down.
One thing I do have that came with my coach is a Wiring Diagram Book, it contains both 12 volt and 110 ac wiring. Problem is that the print is so small it is hard to follow the wires. I have scanned and enlarged pages before so I could follow flow to find a problem.

I did have a problem with the front slides switch. When I first had the problem I pulled the switch to check it. I always draw a diagram of the wiring of any switch if there is more then two wires. After checking the switch putting it back together I got the slide in and we went on our way. The next time we used the coach the slide would not go out. Went through several different step. Finaly got out the book and I was sitting on the couch looking at the book and the switch and wala, I said to myself "my switch isn't wired that way". I moved the wires to match the book and guess what happened. The slide went out and back in with just the push of the switch. I seem that I can't even follow my own drawings.

Thats my story and I'm sticking to it.

Herman
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"Fair winds and Following Seas"

Herman & Bobbie Mullins, F302225
Whitewright, TEXAS
'02 Monaco Dynasty, 40-foot 400 HP ISL
Chevrolet Silverado (M & G air brakes)
U.S. Navy PR-3 1956 to 1964

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#6 F355197

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 10:00 AM

Thanks for all the input from everyone on this issue.

I do have the purple wire and white wire to the solenoids as described but I do not have the gray wires as mentioned and shown in the drawings. The solenoids on mine are not arranged or wired the same as shown on the Monaco drawing.

In my system the solenoids are arranged vertically and the upper solenoid has an integral fuse block on the bottom of it with a 5 amp fuse. From this 5 amp fuse there is a red lead going to a small ckt board with a mounting hole. This ckt board is attached to one of the secondary terminals of that same solenoid and one of the wires coming off it goes to the other terminal of the same solenoid.

The back side of the ckt board has the following information: KIB, BIP 101, dated 01/30/06 . Mounted on the front of this ckt board is a small black cube with the following info stamped on it: 963-1C-1205, 15A 12VDC, Coil: 400 Ohms, dated 06/12. Based on the dates I am assuming the system has been revised/updated to correct an earlier problem.

Could this be the Intellitec system mentioned by desertdeals69?

I have contacted Monaco to see if there is a wiring diagram for this arrangement.

All input is greatly appreciated.
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#7 F355197

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 11:23 AM

UPDATE I did a search for Intellitec latching solenoids and am now convinced my solenoid is an Intellitec item. Ebay had several of these with pictures and they had the integral fuse holder on the bottom but none showed the small circuit board attached to the secondary terminal as I have. BTW, I do have power at the input of each solenoid and when the cut-off switch is pressed I get voltage at the output of each solenoid but only briefly i.e., it is not latching. Obviously the solenoid needs to be replaced but I am not sure about that little circuit board.
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#8 DickandLois

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 11:26 AM

Could you attach a picture or two to a post ?
I will see if I can cross index the numbers you posted.
Thinking that the 5 amp fuse replaces the fuseable link in this case.
Could you tell me if you have any 12 volt coach functions. there appears to be 2-12 volt fuse boxes powered from the battery disconnect circuit drawings I have.
The inverter mentioned for the coach is a Trace RV 2512. That would mean 2500 watts of 110 AC from 12 volts.
KIB Makes a number of propitiatory circuit boards. The 963-1C-1205 could be one of the newer control Boards used to energize many different types of circuits.
This is a link to the control circuit board that might be what you have.

http://www.kibenterp...m/highside.html

Did you look at the link information I posted ? Do your relays match that information?
Rich.
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#9 F355197

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 11:44 AM

The link **** posted appears similar to what I have but without the circuit board.I will check to see if there are any other 12 volt functions and try to get a good picture of the solenoid and its arrangement and post it today.
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#10 F355197

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 04:17 PM

More Info. With battery isolator switch closed and no power through the solenoids the only 12 volt functions I have are power to the inverter and to the refrigerator. The inverter is a Trace RV-3012. The isolator/maintainer is a KEEP-IT-UP, model LE-415.. The solenoid is labeled as a KIB #LR 9806C-BIP, 2304. I have uploaded some pictures to Photobucket which can be viewed here:

http://s408.beta.photobucket.com/user/mvpapillon/library/Solenoid
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#11 DickandLois

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 10:58 PM

Jack,

Looks like I thought it would, except for the use of a solenoid instead of a latching relay!! The small circuit board and its relay supplies power to the latching relay. The one below it is a solenoid. Now, what I think should happen in this case is when the latching relay closes, it should stay in the on mode. This allows power to flow to the winding on the solenoid, that then closes to power up you main 12 volt fuse panel(s).

Both the relay and the solenoid need to be closed to supply power to you 12 volt circuit panels.

The unit at the top is a 415 unit and works as described in my prior post. The item on the left is the used to charge the coach batteries from the alternator.
The large circle(s) under the copper bus bar are high current circuit breakers.

Does that make sense ? The pictures do help me!!

Rich.
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#12 F355197

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 09:17 AM

Jack,

Looks like I thought it would, except for the use of a solenoid instead of a latching relay!! The small circuit board and its relay supplies power to the latching relay. The one below it is a solenoid. Now, what I think should happen in this case is when the latching relay closes, it should stay in the on mode. This allows power to flow to the winding on the solenoid, that then closes to power up you main 12 volt fuse panel(s).

Both the relay and the solenoid need to be closed to supply power to you 12 volt circuit panels.

The unit at the top is a 415 unit and works as described in my prior post. The item on the left is the used to charge the coach batteries from the alternator.
The large circle(s) under the copper bus bar are high current circuit breakers.

Does that make sense ? The pictures do help me!!

Rich.


Thanks Richard for all the help. I do have 12V power to the primary input of both solenoids. There is also 12V power to the circuit board being fed from the red wire via the fuse and this also puts 12V on the lug that it's attached to. The white wire to the other terminal is feeding 12V to it. When I have my wife press and hold the cut-off switch I get 12V on the output of both solenoids but only briefly.

My e-mail is j.wilson@reagan.com.

Jack
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#13 DickandLois

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 09:35 AM

Jack, I will forward to information to you.
The latching relay Should stay closed, if not then you have a option to try. make up a jumper wire with a (start with a 10 amp fuse in the jumper wire) Connect it across the latching relay. This should power up the high current solenoid and power up your fuse panel.
Should the fuse blow. Then you need to take some resistance readings from the coil circuit connection of the solenoid to its metal case, looking for a short to ground.
Now, if the solenoid closes OK with the jumper without blowing the fuse, this will give you power to use temporarily. Just a work around until the bad part(s) can be replaced it the circuit.

Rich.
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