50 Amp Does Not Indicate 50 Amp At Intellitec

[rcieslak67]

We have a 2006 Fleetwood Expedition 38' motorhome and last summer we were hooked up to 50 amp electric supply and the Intellitec kept telling us it was 30 amp. No problems up to now, do I require a new Intellitec?

[wildebill308]

Welcome to the forum. Well the first question is are you sure you had 50 amp available at the pedestal? 

Bill

[wolfe10]

Yes. welcome to the FMCA Forum.

Many monitor systems verify 50 amp by sensing 240 VAC between the two hot legs.  An incorrectly wired 50 amp outlet with both hots off the same side of the CG junction box would show 0 VAC between the hots.

Did this occur in any other CG?  Said another way, if it occurs again, use a voltmeter between the two outer straights-- they should read 240 VAC.  If incorrectly wired, could read 0.

[ziggyh]

I had the same thing happen on my Fleetwood, it was caused by me turning off my breaker for my washer/dryer.  I had turned the breaker off because I had winterized the washer and we camp till the weather is just below freezing and start up again in the early spring.  Every time I was plugged into 50 amp the monitor would indicate 30amp.

Now I just unplug the washer when it's winterized.

 

[tbutler]

We have stayed at campgrounds which are wired as Brett mentions, both of the hot feeds are coming from the same source, not opposite phase sources.  Each will test 110/120 against the neutral or the ground but when tested against each other, they will test zero if from the same phase source and will test 220/240 volts when tested if the hot feeds are  opposite phase.  The Intellitec system reads this as a 30A system.  There is no way to defeat this when it occurs, it is not a defect in your Intellitec system, simply the way it is designed.  The only real impact is that Intellitec will limit your usage to 30A, shutting down excess usage (above 30A).  Complain to the park owners, report it when you rate the park on RV Park Reviews, move on to a better campground, those are some actions you can take.

[dickandlois]

6 hours ago, rcieslak67 said:

We have a 2006 Fleetwood Expedition 38' motorhome and last summer we were hooked up to 50 amp electric supply and the Intellitec kept telling us it was 30 amp. No problems up to now, do I require a new Intellitec?

rcieslak67, Welcome to the FMCA Forum !

Brett, explained what would happen with a miss wired 50 amp circuit. 

   This is the way the EMS should respond to different shore power and with the Generator running. 

         EMS Operation.pdf

Rich.

50 amp circuit breaker panel - picturing two 50 amp circuit breakers. Left half is Line #1 and the right half is line #2.

Lower section is for labeling what circuits are controlled by each circuit breaker. There is a total of 6-20 amp circuit brakes for each line equal to a total of 120 amps. per line, so the EMS will shed the loads down to match the total input current.    

The EMS system comes with a preset setup that can be reset to personal preferences. 

[hermanmullins]

I'm having a hard time visualizing a miss wiring. Two load wire on the same leg of the panel. No matter where you snap in a 50 amp breaker it will be on two different legs. I can see a miss wired plug. But that would give you a hot neutral or ground. However a loose or broken connection in the coach or power cable could show only 30 amp. 

Correct me if I am wrong.

Herman 

[kaypsmith]

Herman, I think that Brett is referring to a miswired CG pedestal, possibly in an older campground that was origionaly a 30 amp cg with a jackleg electrician miswireing from an origional 120 volt circuit, not bringing in a true 220 volt circuit. That would give 120 on each leg of the 50 amp plug with neutral on the correct leg, in this case you would read 120 to neutral or ground from either "hot" leg, but no reading hot to hot. The intellitec would see this as a non 220 volt circuit. Not a correction, I hope a clarification.

[jleamont]

Mine only ever reads 30 amp on my Intellitec also. In my manual it explains that in order for it to read 50 amps there is a need for a jumper wire that was not installed when the coach was built. Here's a photo of mine showing 30 amps plugged in at home to a 50 amp tower, it also only reads 30 and Gen Set while on generator. Its one of the things I wanted to correct but never found a real need to do so, the repair appears to be simple.

 

 

 

[jleamont]

I would really like to correct my A/C unit wiring to my auto start on the generator, now that is frustrating....... when the auto shut off is set to on and you turn on the A/C units, the generator has no idea they are about to turn on and shuts itself off. I have two goofy factory installs on this coach that don't make sense. I'm sure I will find more items where common sense wasn't applied.

[jleamont]

See page 14, last paragraph if you have this system.

2012-04-28_033135_intelletic_ems_service_manual.pdf

[wolfe10]

Sounds like we need more input from rcieslak67.

Has your system always shown 30 on 50 amp service, or only recently/at one CG?

 

 

[rcieslak67]

Never had the issue before in 5 years of camping. Noticed it twice last summer from dedicated 50 amp power at the post.

I wrote to Intellitec, but they never responded. I was thinking that possibly Intellitec has failed as there have not been any changes otherwise.

Expedition has 40,000 miles.

 

[dkreuzen]

I have encountered a CG where the 50amp pedestal was wired incorrectly and the two hots read 0 volts.

If your power management system doesn't recognize this condition and limit usage to 30amps it can create an overloaded neutral condition, potentially causing the neutral wire to overheat which could lead to a fire.

[wildebill308]

rcieslak67, said "Never had the issue before in 5 years of camping. Noticed it twice last summer from dedicated 50 amp power at the post."  But you don't know if the power was right at the pedestal. If it showed 50 amp at other camp grounds I am thinking it is a issue with the power supply at the campground and not a problem with your Intellitec unit. 

This is why I like my portable Surge Guard unit. It won't pass power to the coach if it isn't right.

Bill 

[dickandlois]

3 hours ago, rcieslak67 said:

Never had the issue before in 5 years of camping. Noticed it twice last summer from dedicated 50 amp power at the post.

I wrote to Intellitec, but they never responded. I was thinking that possibly Intellitec has failed as there have not been any changes otherwise.

Expedition has 40,000 miles.

 

The Test for the EMS, start the Generator and if it works normally, then you should have eliminated it as the source of the problem. Narrows things down to the CG power wiring or socket, bad connection in the power cable, bad connection at the point where the power cable connects to the coach, shore power connection at the ATS or connection in the wiring between the ATS and the Main circuit breaker panel primary 50 amp breakers.

Rich.

[jleamont]

I use this gadget to test the connection everywhere we go, and used it to test the tower at home also.

http://50amppowerpal.com/

I also helped rsbilledwards while we were camping back in September, he was having a problem with his coach and I connected to the tower and sure enough he had a bad ground that just dropped while a few minutes before he hunted me down. Camp ground towers are like a box of chocolates, you never know what you gonna get .

[wildebill308]

The good thing about the Surge Guard is it does basically the same thing ALL the time not just when you are looking at it.

Bill

[jleamont]

3 hours ago, WILDEBILL308 said:

The good thing about the Surge Guard is it does basically the same thing ALL the time not just when you are looking at it.

Bill

YUP, I just bought a Progressive 50 amp PT50C from one of our Holiday Rambler club members. Such a good deal I couldn't pass it up. I'm going to leave the TRC at home and keep the progressive in the coach since it locks and the TRC doesn't. I won't plug in without one. I learned that the hard way.

[wildebill308]

Yep my Surge Guard saved me a couple of times this last year. I like the portable because I can use it like a tester. In one campground where I couldn't get  good power on my site I was told I could move. So I took my Surge Guard and started testing different sites.

Bill

[jleamont]

Bill, I had one place on Oklahoma when I flipped the breaker up I got whacked and the tower went up in smoke and sparks. This happened before I plugged in, at the time I had my volt meter in my hand to test the tower, no need to test it at that point. 

[wildebill308]

1 minute ago, jleamont said:

Bill, I had one place on Oklahoma when I flipped the breaker up I got whacked and the tower went up in smoke and sparks. This happened before I plugged in, at the time I had my volt meter in my hand to test the tower, no need to test it at that point. 

I think you might call that a "self test" and just move to a different spot.

Bill

[hermanmullins]

I understand about a park doing an up grade from 30 to 50 amp service. But there is where I would question them. Did they run new cable? Did they up grade the size of cable from say 10 gauge to 8 gauge?  Or did they just put in a different panel with both 30 and 50 amp receptacles and just connect the second leg of the 50 to the same leg of the 30 amp?  If they did these, they must have done it themselves. No licensed electrician would put his name on such a mess. 

Herman

[wolfe10]

Herman,

You are very likely correct on the "how" improper 50 amp CG power "evolves" in older CG's. Unknowledgeable or those unwilling to spend the money to pull new 4 wire heavier wiring from the CG junction box "cheat" by merely installing a 50 amp outlet and tying both hots to the single hot that originally supplied only the 30 amp outlet.

[hermanmullins]

Here is a place to test with a volt meter. If you check Hot to Hot (L-1 to L-2) you should read 240 volts. if they have cheated then you will get no reading of voltage. A check of each leg to a ground or neutral will detect 120 volts on each but you are getting power from the same source and not from two different legs.

Herman