hermanmullins Report post Posted March 17, 2017 Mongo says, Engine with no DEF "Good Thing", Engine with DEF Not so good Thing. I would never argue with Mongo. God bless the EPA. Herman Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jleamont Report post Posted March 17, 2017 Funny thing.... Mongo smarter than EPA Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfe10 Report post Posted March 17, 2017 Roland, You might want to verify that that 360 HP is indeed the ISL. Could also be a "lesser" engine. And if an ISL that it has the much more desirable engine compression brake, not an exhaust brake. The exhaust brake was the less expensive option. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rfsod48 Report post Posted March 17, 2017 Brett, You are correct it is the ISC engine with exhaust brake. Should this be a red flag? Also what about the few miles vs age? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfe10 Report post Posted March 17, 2017 27 minutes ago, rfsod48 said: Brett, You are correct it is the ISC engine with exhaust brake. Should this be a red flag? Also what about the few miles vs age? Not sure I would call it a "red flag". But a 41' coach would be better off with the larger engine (the ISL of that vintage was 425 HP, and I believe 1,200 lb-ft of torque) for both going up grades and the engine compression brake for going down them. The ISC will get you there, but your power to weight ratio is not as good as you might want. Again, just one of the trade-offs when looking at coaches. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jleamont Report post Posted March 17, 2017 Its defiantly an ISC 360 with a Diesel Particulate Filter and EGR (of course). Engine SN# 46776183. I have to agree with Brett, then you toss the emissions stuff on top of the smaller engine that's asking a lot from an ISC. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manholt Report post Posted March 17, 2017 Joe, is the 360 torque 650 or 800? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jleamont Report post Posted March 17, 2017 Carl, from what I can see its 800. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manholt Report post Posted March 17, 2017 Like Linda and her CAT350, she uses mostly 5th gear at 2000rpm to do 55mph up hills! I sometimes have to go into 5th at 1950rpm=66mph. I have 1250 torque...then there is the way the Allison is geared to max torque...think we covered that ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jleamont Report post Posted March 17, 2017 Carl, I drive the same way pulling a hill at 1900-2000 RPM's (manually downshift of course) I also have the 1250 ftlbs but with 400HP. I have found the problem doing that, I'm walking past trucks, and the cars behind me want to do 80 and I have no intention going that fast, maybe 55-65. While I could sink my foot into it more....its not worth tossing all that fuel out of the tail pipe. So I find myself following the trucks unless I can plan ahead and have a clear shot in the right lane. In which case I still downshift just less on the throttle, I don't like to "lug" a diesel up a hill. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfe10 Report post Posted March 17, 2017 Just to be clear, with modern 4 stroke diesel engines (not the old two stroke engines) lugging is defined as operating at high throttle positions below PEAK TORQUE RPM. For our 2003 ISL that RPM is 1,300. So I do not operate below that RPM except at very light throttle (like when slowing down coming into a town. If you can climb a grade at or above peak torque RPM (different for each engine) AND, repeat AND you are not overheating, that is your most economic way to climb. I would add that I want a little throttle left as well (so, just short of wide open throttle). If coolant temperature starts to rise, gear down and raise engine RPM, which spins the water pump faster, cooling fan faster, etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dkreuzen Report post Posted March 17, 2017 18 hours ago, manholt said: dk. How does your coach behave in cross winds, 25+mph? Carl Since I upgraded the steering box and added the front Watts link the cross wind effect is very manageable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfe10 Report post Posted March 17, 2017 Just now, dkreuzen said: Since I upgraded the steering box and added the front Watts link I the cross wind effect is very manageable. No question, play in a steering box and/or slop in suspension components make handling worse. Same in virtually any vehicle. Again, the chassis manufacturers knew how to make a better handling/riding chassis, but that is NOT what sells (most) coaches. The company that spends an extra $5,000 on chassis will loose market share to the company that spends that $5,000 on interior upgrades. Just a fact of marketing. But, some of us DO ask questions about the chassis and are willing to seek out coaches that fit OUR desires. So, long wheelbase, good suspension, upgraded shocks, side radiator, larger engine, accessibility of engines/components that may need service are things I am willing to pay for. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blakeloke Report post Posted March 17, 2017 Roland, Hopefully the coach you are looking at suits your family's needs. I'm also hoping it doesn't have the Firestone Intelliride leveling system. Ours does and it takes constant maintenance. The control box went out on it a year or so ago and we had to have a new one manufactured....in Sweden. Wasn't cheap...ours was one of only about 400 coaches this system was used on before they figured out is wasn't the greatest. Blake Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rfsod48 Report post Posted March 17, 2017 With the engine being less than optimal we are thinking this might not be the right coach. So it is back to the drawing board. What are all your opinions of new HR, it has a model with the all important bath and 1/2. I know engine would have all pollution controls. Roland Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rfsod48 Report post Posted March 17, 2017 My wife found a 2007 Fleetwood Revolution with Cat C9 2006 engine. The chassis is Spartan Mountain Master. Engine has 29000 miles on it. Vin. 4VZBR1J967C057344. Engine # 9DG08487 Thoughts from the tribe on this one? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfe10 Report post Posted March 17, 2017 Roland, You can call the Caterpillar RV Hotline and ask them for a history on the engine. 877 777-3126. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rfsod48 Report post Posted March 17, 2017 Brett, What about this coach in general? I will check on engine Monday. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfe10 Report post Posted March 17, 2017 No personal experience with that late a model. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
five Report post Posted March 18, 2017 7 hours ago, wolfe10 said: No question, play in a steering box and/or slop in suspension components make handling worse. Same in virtually any vehicle. Again, the chassis manufacturers knew how to make a better handling/riding chassis, but that is NOT what sells (most) coaches. The company that spends an extra $5,000 on chassis will loose market share to the company that spends that $5,000 on interior upgrades. Just a fact of marketing. But, some of us DO ask questions about the chassis and are willing to seek out coaches that fit OUR desires. So, long wheelbase, good suspension, upgraded shocks, side radiator, larger engine, accessibility of engines/components that may need service are things I am willing to pay for. Brett, you have omitted one key factor and player in the coach selection process...our spouses. If it comes between the floor plan she likes or the engine/trans/chassis I like...I lose. However, one day a while back I told her I was going down the MH to change the spark plugs...I got this 'over the glasses look' and she said, "I don't know much about the engine in that beast, but I know it doesn't have any spark plugs!" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfe10 Report post Posted March 18, 2017 Sail boats.... motorhomes.... houses...... Yes, compromises. But, there are coaches that can meet both needs. Just keep looking. And, newer diesels with DPF filters sometimes DO have a (read that ONE) spark plug. Would love to be the guy that goes in to a NAPA and asks for a spark plug for that diesel-- Caterpillar C7 for example. Must be my evil side. Enjoyed going into a gas station in central Texas in the early 1970's and pouring oil into the fuel tank of my car. Just told them it burned so much I might as well put it in the gas tank. Yes, it was a 1967 Saab 96 with the last of the two stroke engines. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jleamont Report post Posted March 18, 2017 In my opinion, there are enough out there to satisfy both. You just have to look and be patient. The last thing you want is regret after the purchase be it mechanical or comfort. One will hit your pocket and the other will hit you in the side of the head reminding you every chance she gets . Brett, you really had to pour oil in the fuel tank?? Now I'm curious what that engine looked like and how it worked . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfe10 Report post Posted March 18, 2017 24 minutes ago, jleamont said: Brett, you really had to pour oil in the fuel tank?? Now I'm curious what that engine looked like and how it worked . It was a two stroke engine-- think giant Lawnboy. 3 cylinder, 3 one barrel carbs, 850 CC. Redline-- ain't no stinking redline. No valves to float and roller bearing crank. Lots of fun. Killed dead by EPA in 1968. Sorry, did not mean to stray off course. Back to the OP's issue. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manholt Report post Posted March 18, 2017 SAAB's looked nice, but they did go thru oil, built for European roads...not the Autobahn. About as potent as the Spanish Seat, by Fiat...Don't know if they still are available, but the biggest buyers of Seat's in late 60's and 70's was Brazil ! SAAB and Volvo, SAAB is still in business, but not as a car...think Jet Fighter planes! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
