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jeff753

One Member One Vote Change To Convention Delegates

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We started another thread on this under FMCA Feedback but it's not a feedback issue so we've moved it here. 

Since most of our age group do not belong to chapters (only 30% of the membership does) we do not have any representation at the conventions (no chapter no national director under current rules) nor can you cast your vote for elected national officers (only chapters do through their national directors.

What we are proposing is a change to National Director positions that are based on all memberships in each area not just chapters.  That would provide a voice to all dues paying members not just the chapters.

Nothing is wrong with Chapters....it's just they no longer contain the majority of the membership as people have elected not to join or form formal chapters.

In a nutshell the National Director positions would change from "one from each chapter" to "one for each 500 dues paying members" in a particular area.

We will be seeking at least 20 signatures on a petition to include this new business at the summer convention in Gillette.  This needs to be submitted by Jan 1st.

Here's a draft of the change from for comments.  (The original document is contained under volunteer handbook 3022 at https://governance.fmca.com/documents/handbook.html)

 POLICY

Area national directors elected from each Area serve on the Governing Board of FMCA.

 PROCEDURE

Responsibilities

 

 

1. Each Area shall elect members as national directors to serve on the Governing Board of FMCA, and elect members as alternate national directors to serve on the Governing Board if a national director is unable or unwilling to serve.

 

 

Only national directors may conduct the business of the Convention. Any member in good standing may attend the Convention and speak on any issue.

Each Area shall be entitled to one national director for every 500 active members in good standing in their respective Area as of January 1 of each year.  Each national director shall be entitled to cast a number of votes equal to the number of active members in good standing in his or her Area thirty (30) days in advance of the opening of the Convention, divided by the number of national directors representing the Area properly registered and credentialed at the time of the vote.

The President shall appoint a Credentials Committee for each National Convention. The Credentials Committee shall be composed of at least three (3) active members in good standing, among whom no two (2) members may be from the same Area. Prior to the start of the Convention, the Credentials Committee shall meet and issue a report listing the names of all eligible national directors and their alternates and the number of votes that each national director is entitled to cast.

National directors and any alternates must be members in good standing of the Association and of their respective Areas. An Area national director of the Governing Board is entitled to represent only one Area.  A single membership may not hold more than one national director and/or alternate national director position.  No paid employee of any Area or of the Association, other than duly elected officials, shall be a national director. 

2. The term of office of a newly elected national director or alternate national director begins after the national office receives written notice of said election and has verified that the person is qualified. The term extends for a one- or two-year period.

3. If an Area national director vacancy occurs an alternate national director shall immediately assume the vacated position and this shall be promptly reported in writing to the national office. If an alternate national director is unable to fill this vacancy, the Area is to promptly elect (not appoint) a member to fill the Area national director vacancy and notify the national office.

4.  Subject to Sections 1 through 3 the selection processes of Area National directors and any alternates shall be determined by procedures set forth in each Area’s constitution and bylaws.

Chapter National Director

1. National directors should keep their Areas informed of items pertaining to the national organization and of the FMCA areas, as well as keeping the national organization appraised of items happening on the Area level. Another important duty is participation in and voting during Governing Board meetings.

2.  Chapter Alternate National Director

An alternate national director shall serve whenever a national director is unable to attend meetings of the Governing Board or is otherwise unable to serve. An Alternate national director cannot also be the national director.

 

 

 

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Jeff.  Is your proposal based upon no more Chapter ND's, or in addition to? 

Also, how will you know how many members are in a given Area, at any given time?  INTO covers all Areas!

Carl C.

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Areas will also be skewed by full timers.

Example: Many full timers use Escapees, Livingston, TX as their "home"/mailing address.

So many that it has become an issue for local politics (people who have never been there are a high percent of voters for local elections).

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1 hour ago, manholt said:

Jeff.  Is your proposal based upon no more Chapter ND's, or in addition to? 

All the National Directors that currently represent only individual chapters could represent up to 500 dues paying members instead.  We are not anti chapter by any means.

Quote

Also, how will you know how many members are in a given Area, at any given time?  INTO covers all Areas!

Carl C.

I added ...as of January 1 of each year in section 1 so the National Office could "snap shot" the membership each year to begin the election process in each area.  Many Associations do it this way.

Section 1 v101 now reads:

Each Area shall be entitled to one national director for every 500 active members in good standing in their respective Area... as of January 1 of each year.

As to INTO

4.  Subject to Sections 1 through 3 the selection processes of Area National directors and any alternates shall be determined by procedures set forth in each Area’s constitution and bylaws.

So I would suggest INTO would decide that and could change it if they wished.  They could decide to vote as an INTO Area or their Geographic Area.  One member one vote their choice.

This decision would have to be in place in time for FMCA Office to know which way to run INTO....as an AREA or within their Geographic Area. 

Good questions Carl thank you.

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1 hour ago, wolfe10 said:

Areas will also be skewed by full timers.

Example: Many full timers use Escapees, Livingston, TX as their "home"/mailing address.

So many that it has become an issue for local politics (people who have never been there are a high percent of voters for local elections).

Good points too....

I think Areas will be somewhat averaged by full timers and could be skewed by snowbirds. 

As to addresses....I guess if we have 5000 people registered with fmca in Livingston Texas then their National Director would be elected from that Area.  The membership may be in North Dakota in real life but they will know who their national director is and what the issues are.  I don't see the address as that big a deal since the issues of convention business and National elections are National??  If it is a big deal we could have a home address and a mailing address with fmca as part of implementation.   

Regardless of the address the snapshot captures it's still one member one vote and that is the problem we are trying to solve and interested in any solutions that accomplish that.  

I suppose a different snap shot date (currently Jan 1) could mitigate the snowbird issue) ...it's just a snapshot to determine how many National Directors each region needs to get....maybe use July of each year for the following year convention.  I like that better I think?  You?

 

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Jeff, The thoughts and Ideas expressed are all viable, but where the membership calls home and where they are shifts - South in the Winter and North or to locations that are at a higher elevation in the summer. That is the beauty of full timing or part timing. 

I tend to fallow the Geese , so depending on the average  temperature that is where we might be until it is time  to plant a garden. then they cycle repeats. So where does that group call home.  The Escapes home base is set,  and so are other groups that choose  states to call home for a number of reasons, but can be absent for extended periods of time . 

We have a home chapter with friends and into chapters with friends. this allows us to flock together, depending on the season. Many of the members in our home chapter head South and some stay north to play in the snow. 

This scenario is the common thread of all chapter members.

Rich.

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25 minutes ago, chindog said:

So is there a petition, or is this thread just to discuss what would be in the petition?

The proposed language is at the top and that’s what we are working through now. The petition will follow shortly. 

You can “like” the thread on our u60 Task Force/ENERGIZED Facebook group page or when we get the language finalized we will post the file and the instructions to support it here too. 

Sound reasonable?

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20 minutes ago, chindog said:

So is there a petition, or is this thread just to discuss what would be in the petition?

Mike, Some members of FMCA are working to meet the requirement needed to file a petition for consideration at the FMCA Rally and Governing Board this summer in Gillette and how it well be worded.

It is a process like the one to consider the possibility of all RV's joining and the requirements of al TT or fiver.

Rich.

 

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Jeff.  We are now going into the second quarter of December, beginning to the Christmas Season, and other Denominations season, then New Year.  I understand fully what your attempting to do!  I just think you'll have a better chance to do it, if you have one full year to work it out.  My 2 cents worth.

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Jeff,  I like the premise but as apposed to the federal government there is no funding coming back from the national association to a specific area and there is not much differences in camping from area to area so I don't think electing National Directors from a specific geographic areas is really necessary.  How about something on this line - there shall be one National Director for every 500 members.     National Directors will be divided into a three groups that are elected for a three year term starting with 1 - 2 - 3 years terms so on the fourth year all terms are three years and you end up voting for one third of the national directors annually.    Members running for National Director have to submit a petition with 100 signatures and be a member in good standing to run.   Every year the membership would be provided with a list of the ND candidates running with a paragraph on what they did to further the organization and RV ownership.   To save money electronic balloting would be allowed.    Members would vote for those that closely match what their beliefs are and who they think will make the right decisions going forward.

Members could reach out to one or more national director to provide an opinion or even the FMCA could establish a email address where you can send feed back to that would be forwarded to all national directors for their consideration.  The chapters could set up a committee that would review the candidates and make recommendations to their membership who to vote for based on what candidates would be in the  best interest of their chapter.

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3 hours ago, rmatteucci said:

Jeff,  I like the premise but as apposed to the federal government there is no funding coming back from the national association to a specific area and there is not much differences in camping from area to area so I don't think electing National Directors from a specific geographic areas is really necessary.  How about something on this line - there shall be one National Director for every 500 members.     National Directors will be divided into a three groups that are elected for a three year term starting with 1 - 2 - 3 years terms so on the fourth year all terms are three years and you end up voting for one third of the national directors annually.    Members running for National Director have to submit a petition with 100 signatures and be a member in good standing to run.   Every year the membership would be provided with a list of the ND candidates running with a paragraph on what they did to further the organization and RV ownership.   To save money electronic balloting would be allowed.    Members would vote for those that closely match what their beliefs are and who they think will make the right decisions going forward.

Members could reach out to one or more national director to provide an opinion or even the FMCA could establish a email address where you can send feed back to that would be forwarded to all national directors for their consideration.  The chapters could set up a committee that would review the candidates and make recommendations to their membership who to vote for based on what candidates would be in the  best interest of their chapter.

I like it!  As we said; anything that gets us all a vote at conventions and elections is in order. That's the problem we are trying to address after all.

I like the rotational national directors you propose. Maybe if a region has 9,000 members and is entitled to 18 delegates the top 1/3 get 3 years, 2/3 two years, bottom third one year (or maybe invert that) and the next 18 would be alternates in order of votes received by members.  With 75,000 members and 500 members per national director we would only have 150 national directors.  The idea is to stay below 300 national directors (we have 400 today but only about 2/3 showed up at Indianapolis) as we grow but maybe 400 is a better number today?  400 members per delegate would keep us below 300 total delegates up to 120,000 members.  We have about 75,000 now    

The electronic voting is a given for this and that should pass in Gillette.  

National Directors "elected by each area" allow each area to be represented instead of just the areas with the most members as might be the case under your idea.  What do you think?

 FMCA.com would be used to discuss agenda items and members would be informed who their national director is and the national directors would be given a list of their 500 members by FMCA to facilitate communication.  

As we said we are not anti chapter we are just looking for voting rights for the 70% of members who do not belong to a chapter and thus have no national director to vote for them.  

We are drafting proposed changes to the bylaws and membership handbook and want to have this completed by Christmas so it can be timely in its submission required by January 1.

Please continue the discussion on this thread or if you are under 60 (or feel like you are) join the discussion on our U60 Task Force/ENERGIZED Facebook Group Page at https://www.facebook.com/groups/fmcau60taskforce/

Thank you very much for contributing to the discussion!

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2 hours ago, jeff753 said:

National Directors "elected by each area" allow each area to be represented instead of just the areas with the most members as might be the case under your idea.  What do you think?

 

 

Jeff,  The area where you are from has no relevance in the FMCA as it does in the Government.     The ND's of the FMCA should not represent an "area" but to actually act on behalf of the membership  as the membership numbers are too large to conduct regular business with everyone  participating.  Basically all you are doing is dividing the 75,000 by a number that results in a manageable governance board.   You can even go to one ND for each 300 members and have 250 ND's.    To keep it below 300 as you suggest just change the per member number as membership increases. When it comes to voting you vote for ND's that most resemble your beliefs about the way the organization should be ran and from the candidates biographical data represent the way you use your RV.   So if you are a full timer that places importance on specific benefits that would be advantageous to an older member.  Look over the biographical data for the candidate and vote for one that says he is a full timer and likes the same benefits you enjoy.   Like wise if you are a younger person that does a lot of weekend trips and wants the organization to do more things for younger members  look over the biographical data for the candidate that says he camps mostly weekend and feels the organization should do more things for younger members.  Also for those that like Rally's and Chapter events they would look over the biographical data and look for someone that attends many chapter events and regional Rally's and vote for him or her.    When you vote you only can hope the person will be consistent in representing your organizational beliefs and your RV lifestyle.   In the long run the ND's will represent all the diverse opinions of the membership and the organization will change accordingly.   Of course there are rules to follow (by-laws) that all will have to follow thus assure that organization change will come slowly and with the consent of all the membership through by-law change votes.    Everyone has to feel that they have a say in a organization I think this way they would.   The bottom line here the current system does not represent the entire membership and needs to be updated.   

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It makes sense it doesn’t matter what area you are from or what area your delegate is from for Conventions and national elections.

But it would seem we still need Area national directors to elect Area Association officers?  No?  How would we handle one member one vote at the Area level if we didn’t have Area national directors?  

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38 minutes ago, jeff753 said:

It makes sense it doesn’t matter what area you are from or what area your delegate is from for Conventions and national elections.

But it would seem we still need Area national directors to elect Area Association officers?  No?  How would we handle one member one vote at the Area level if we didn’t have Area national directors?  

Well, I would think that you could elect Area Association Officers at the same time as you vote on the ND's aka Delegates are elected providing a true one member one vote system.   Another way is after the 250 "at Large" ND's are in place they would then vote for the Area Association Officers from those petition for office.   To be eligible for office you would need a specific amount of member signatures on your petition to be an Area Association Officer and you live in the area you are running for.    This way the 250 "at large" ND's still steer the direction of the association by electing those people that believe the same as they do.    Taking another step further you could have the 250 At Large ND's select Ten of their own that have already been elected as an ND that live in each of the 10 areas to be the "area association officers".  The likelihood of a member not running for  ND from one the 10 areas is small as the areas are so large.  As the association officers have more to do than the at large ND's  I think I would prefer the former where the person wants to run for the office and has to be have a petition.     

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As one of those younger under 60 members, under 50 even (for a few more months) that does not belong to a local chapter, I see this issue partly as a generational thing.  In my experience my generation is less fond of complex organizational structures, parliamentary procedure, and committees for everything than the generations that proceeded it.  The lack of younger RV owners participating in the whole chapter system may be just another symptom of this attitude.  So while I feel there needs to be some revision to representation of the membership, I question not so much how these National Directors will be elected, but instead where the ND candidates will come from, if not from the local chapters.  How will we the membership get to know the people we are electing if not through chapter events, regional rallies, and the like?

So to summarize, yes we need change, yes we need representation, but I am not sure this is it.

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Jeff.  What do you propose to do with the Canadian's and all other truly International members?  FMCA is not limited to the Lower 48 !  Everything that I so far have read, seems to me to be rather exclusive to the 60 and under, domestic group...I wonder what the real percentage is as to who have kids and who does not? 

I know of another "Political" group, that also wanted to throw those over a certain age, under the bus!  

Isaaac1.  Don't forget, that 9 years ago, your generation and the one after you, wanted change, you threw me and my generation, under the bus!

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9 hours ago, Isaaac1 said:

As one of those younger under 60 members, under 50 even (for a few more months) that does not belong to a local chapter, I see this issue partly as a generational thing.  In my experience my generation is less fond of complex organizational structures, parliamentary procedure, and committees for everything than the generations that proceeded it.  The lack of younger RV owners participating in the whole chapter system may be just another symptom of this attitude.  So while I feel there needs to be some revision to representation of the membership, I question not so much how these National Directors will be elected, but instead where the ND candidates will come from, if not from the local chapters.  How will we the membership get to know the people we are electing if not through chapter events, regional rallies, and the like?

So to summarize, yes we need change, yes we need representation, but I am not sure this is it.

Since these delegates would come from regions they would get to know people through chapters and area gatherings.  Bios would be posted on FMCA.com under Governance.  I'm sure many of these national directors will come from chapters; they will just represent up to 500 people instead of as few 15.

Since 100% of the members belong to regions and only 30% belong to chapters we propose to elect national directors through regions instead of just by chapters.  You do not have to be in a chapter to be a national director nor vote for one.  One member = One Vote. 

 

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We intend to write this One Member One Vote proposal and have it ready for signatures next week. It needs to be received by FMCA by January 1.  If you are interterested in signing the proposal or circulating it for other members signatures send your:

1) member name 

2) member number

3) email address

to FMCAENERGIZED@gmail.com and we will send you an electronic version for you to print, sign, scan and email to FMCA (email address will be provided).

Thank you for your interest.  

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Jeff,

No I will not sign your proposal, however I really hope that get to the point where the entire membership has the opportunity to vote. I would be interested to see how many vote for such a menial topic when only less than 10,000 members voted for such a major topic of to allow or not to allow towables.

Herman 

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Jeff, I appreciate your persistence and tenacity. Since I could care less if FMCA has 1 or 10,000 directors or whatever they'er called or 1 chapter or 10,000 chapters with rallys and conventions, I don't have a dog in this hunt. Its unfortunate you are getting a lot of it can't happen, this is wrong, that will never work kind of statements rather than lets work together and come up with a solution that will benefit FMCA as a whole. 

Does this remind anyone else of exactly what is going on in that little square mile called Washington D. C.?  Are some of the FMCA old guard afraid of losing some power and/or prestige? Or maybe its the attitude of well we've done it this way for years so lets not rock the boat.

I wish you well, Jeff, you have long hard row to hoe as we say in the south.

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Jeff.

Since we are less than 2 weeks away from the filing date for your proposal and it's got to go via Snail Mail to FMCA, Due to the Holidays between now and January 1, 2018, I would think it would be mailed in, no later than the 29th for over night Special Delivery! 

My question is:  Would you please post an update for the Forum?

All have a Jolly good Christmas

Carl U. C. aka Manholt

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