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jeff753

One Member One Vote

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Attached are three documents (three in word or all three in the pdf)  to support the change in how our National Directors are Elected.

Currently only Chapters get a vote at conventions and for officers.  For the past 20 years less than 30% of our 75,000 members belong to a chapter.  

These proposals, if supported, would allow one member one vote, regardless of any Chapter affiliation.

In Proposal #1 Members would not be precluded from voting electronically via a secure voting method offered by FMCA.

In Proposal #2 Members would vote for their convention delegates who would carry their vote to the floor or the Annual Convention to be cast for convention business  and the election of officers of the Association.

In Proposal #3 these delegates would vote for their Area Vice President (currently only Chapter can vote for these board members).

Please print them and follow the instructions on the top of the printed document for submission to FMCA for Consideration at Gillette.

If you are able----please solicit signatures from your FMCA Member friends. 

 

2018 Proposal 2 Bylaws Amendment.doc

2018 Proposal 3 Bylaws Amendment.doc

2018 Proposal 1 Constitutional Amendment.doc

ENERGIZED_Proposals.pdf

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36 minutes ago, manholt said:

Ok, I read it all...why are you excluding International members?  FMCA was never inclusive to the USA and Canada.

Carl you have made it clear you like it the way it is today with only Chapter delegates having a voice.  I'm not going to engage you in a ramble of unrelated items. 

Let us be clear

The ONLY changes we are proposing is to allow Electronic voting and to change whom national directors represent (300 members instead of just Chapters).

Are you referring to the CURRENT language in bylaw 18 which states:

"A chapter has Governing Board representation and is an organization of members with a scope
within the United States and Canada. An associate chapter does not have Governing Board
representation and may have a scope outside of the United States and Canada."

If so we have proposed the following language:

"(3) A chapter is an organization of members with a scope within the United States and Canada and, through its members, has Governing Board representation.  An associate chapter does not have Governing Board representation and may have a scope outside of the United States and Canada."

The difference between the old and the proposed new language simply says Chapter members do not lose their representation...just non chapter members (50,000) gain representation.  I'm thinking national directors may enjoy representing 300 members instead of 15?

so as to "excluding international members"....that is current language and we do not propose a change to that.....

as to being "inclusive to the USA and Canada"....we include our Canadian brothers and sisters....along with all members of FMCA in all of our proposals. 

 

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Jeff, I am interested in seeing how you are proposing to divide the 50,000 non chapter members into 166 groups of 300 and get them together to agree on anything. If it takes 3 months to get less than 12% of the members to vote on a major topic how do you expect to get them together to vote and elect a Representative that none of them have ever met or know anything about.

If those 50,000 members were really interested in what is going on they would be working in a chapter so they would have a voice. 

Just IMHO.

Herman

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Just one last question.  Do you have the required 20 signatures on each motion and will it get to EB by Jan 1, 2018?

Other than that, may you both enjoy the Christmas Season with family and friends.  Herman, I want to see a picture! :)

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16 minutes ago, manholt said:

No!  Your Great Grandchild, born yesterday....don't need a picture of you! :lol:

:lol: that just made my day :lol:!! :lol:

Hey Handsome :lol::wacko:

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As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I do think there needs to be some better member representation, I just don't know that this is it.  The more I think about it, the more I think there are other fundamental questions that need to be asked, like what is the purpose of the FMCA.  Some have said the purpose is to provide an umbrella organization for the chapters, but if 2/3 of the membership does not belong to a chapter, then this concept may be out of date.

As to the issue of online voting, I am against it as there is too much chance of abuse and manipulation, most likely through some type of social engineering of the membership through get out the vote campaign, and voting based on knee jerk reactions. While such things also happen with traditional voting, online voting greatly speeds the whole process, and has the potential to create instability if not implemented properly.

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I think changing things is needed.  But I have to also wonder how it would work.  I was President of our HOA.  We had only 211 members.  We rarely had enough attendance at our annual meeting to get a quorum to even do business!  Even mailing out proxies, putting flyers on doors and signs in the neighborhood entrance for a week before the meeting.  People just wouldn't return proxies, wouldn't show up and didn't care until they were in violation of a deed restriction and received a letter asking them to correct an item then they wanted someone's head on a platter.  Other than that, we couldn't get them involved.  

So my question would be how the By Laws are written.  Giving all members a vote is GREAT.  My concern is...we make the changes.  But the By Laws require a certain number to generate a quorum before business can be done.  So we now have all these new voting members but they 1) don't vote 2) don't return proxies 3) no delegate shows up at the annual meeting.  Then we don't have enough members to even conduct business.  

Electronic voting...a huge YES!  That makes things easier.  

But I wonder if the non chapter members just really don't care and they only sign up for the discounts available and have no concerns about how the organization is run.  Maybe we should focus on just contacting members with a campaign to inform them of how things go and make some additional chapters that operate in FB groups so that we don't have to meet in person anywhere and those who are interested can join these new chapters so that they have a voice.  

Example:  I signed up to be a delegate for a chapter who couldn't attend.  I was told they could contact me with how I should vote.  I reached out to them.  No one ever contacted me.  I was left to vote for a chapter of people I never met with no input on how they felt about any of the issues.  But...they were represented!  

I understand the desire of the changes I'm just not convinced they will solve the problems and I don't have the answers either.  Electronic voting will help for some like me.  Not sure if the other change will help or make things worse.  I honestly haven't read the By Laws and I need to do that.  

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Don't fear the change...be part of it:)  

Quorum rules do not change.  It's currently 51% of all National Directors.  The fact is the governing board would be a bit smaller under the 300/1 rule, there would be a vast pool of alternates and fmca.com would be used to debate issues prior to conventions. 

The only change we are proposing is to give the 50,000 members the opportunity to cast a vote in their Association.  To not allow that is not a solution. 

We currently have 391 chapters which possess 391 National Directors.  51% is a quorum under the rules.  At the last Convention at Indy we had about 280 vote.  Under this proposal; we  would have 250 National Directors and 250 Alternates.  126 would constitute a quorum.  Business would run more efficiently as

No change will eventually lead to fewer and fewer members controlling the outcome of the association with most of them older (not that there's anything wrong with that).

Of the 391 Chapters 271 were created before 2000 with only 14 chapters created since.  The Chapter model will not survive as FamilyRving moves from a member based organization to a benefit based organization. Geographical/Friend based chapters will age out.  New Chapters requiring meeting, minutes and bylaws will not replace Geographical Chapters.  Interest based chapters like INTO will survive as they are not limited to an area/age and all ages share interests.  Who doesn't like the diesel club:)

 

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19 hours ago, Hermanmullins said:

Will this one do?

Herman 

20171125_080939.jpg

Herman,

Let me introduce you to the "ENERGIZED Forum". 

This forum is used for the Under 60 Task Force members and other older ENERGIZED people to discuss issues relevant to our mission and goals of the Under 60 Task Force/ENERGIZED Task Force.

Our Mission is:
"Pursuing new members, ideas and enthusiasm for the future success of the organization"


In addition our current goals include:
-Recruit new members for FMCA both under and over 60.
-Establish a voice within the leadership of FMCA
-Sponsor more age related events and activities at Rallies.
-Explore new/additional benefits and initiatives for members
Towards the goal of “Sponsor more age related events and activities at Rallies” we created FMCA ENERGIZED.

We try to keep this forum open to all members regardless of age and certainly accept all ideas relevant to our goals..... but....If you'd like to post selfies and comments not productive to our debate please do so on some other topic.  Now, would you please delete this picture...it serves no member except you and Carl...if you and Carl would like to share selfies please try something like Snapchat....the great thing about SnapChat is the picture disappears.

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12 hours ago, Isaaac1 said:

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I do think there needs to be some better member representation, I just don't know that this is it.  The more I think about it, the more I think there are other fundamental questions that need to be asked, like what is the purpose of the FMCA.  Some have said the purpose is to provide an umbrella organization for the chapters, but if 2/3 of the membership does not belong to a chapter, then this concept may be out of date.

As to the issue of online voting, I am against it as there is too much chance of abuse and manipulation, most likely through some type of social engineering of the membership through get out the vote campaign, and voting based on knee jerk reactions. While such things also happen with traditional voting, online voting greatly speeds the whole process, and has the potential to create instability if not implemented properly.

I wouldn't fear the voting...it's an option to paper not a replacement.  FMCA through implementation would have to ensure security, receipts to voters and an audit panel. 

The FMCA is required by it's bylaws to have a Stratgic Plan to guide themselves into the future.  The Strategic Plan says in part:

Goal C: Membership
The majority of first-time motor coach buyers will choose to be FMCA
members.

FMCA will need to expand its efforts with manufacturers and dealers to
encourage FMCA membership as part of the purchase of a motorhome. As the
base of persons embracing motorhoming expands, FMCA will need to ensure that
its membership and leadership include and reflect its diverse constituencies.
Motorhomes will increasingly be used on all continents for travel, recreation and
fun, and FMCA will have increased opportunities to explore collaborative
relationships and strategic alliances with other related organizations worldwide
and explore what it would mean to truly be an international organization.

FMCA chapters are viewed as the lifeblood of FMCA, and chapter and area
rallies form the basis for FMCA-related activities. It is likely that the present
membership of primarily active, mature, retired persons may want to have
resources focused on doing more of the same, since it’s worked for so many
years. People generally are resistant to change. At the same time, those whom
FMCA seeks to attract in the future, such as those 45-to-55-year-olds nearing or
thinking about retirement, and younger persons with families who can afford
motorhomes, are looking for different ways to enjoy motorhomes beyond rallies,
such as tailgating at sporting events, attending NASCAR races, embarking on
family vacations to scenic locations, and joining caravans traveling to great
destinations. How FMCA bridges the generations and their different needs will
be central to its future success.


The majority of FMCA members, approximately 66%, do not belong to chapters,
and it will be increasingly important to learn what the needs, wants and
expectations are of this “member-at-large” group. There is a trend in some
organizations, traditionally geographically based such as FMCA, toward more
“interest-based” sections such as the chapters currently served by FMCA’s
International Area, and this is an area that warrants further dialogue and
deliberation.

 

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15 hours ago, dons2346 said:

So.....each ND gets 300 members to vote for, correct? What happens if 100 want to vote no and 200 want to vote yes? You going to split the votes? How?

Same thing happens today if a Chapter goes 10-5.  I see no difference.

Delegates would receive feedback from members via multiple avenues from Chapter gatherings, web pages, social media and personal contact.  Delegates at rallys would have special badges so all members could approach any delegate and represent those views just like today.  Most convention business would be via voice vote but if someone called for a roll call vote each delegate would have xxx votes to cast as he/she felt they should.  Up to 75,000 members would have a voice instead of less than 30% as it is today. 

I think it's a marked improvement over today's representation of the membership.  Is it perfect....I doubt is but it isn't outdated and broken and will continue to be improved upon.

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As has been stated by the moderator on many occasions, personal attacks will not be tolerated.  So far, you have managed to do that to a Sr. VP of FMCA Six State Rally (all of South Central ) and a National Director!  Since I maybe Voting for your propositions in Wyoming, next July, I'm asking the same questions now as I will if it gets that far!  So, don't shot your group in the foot before we get there!

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Carl I presume you are talking about you and Herman?  I recall no personnel attacks.  I realize you are angry over the trailer vote but had you, as a National Director, been paying attention to the FMCA Strategic Plan (see part above about membership) and ensuring its implementation as a director, the trailer vote never would have occurred.  That "strategic plan" (and it's still the current one) was approved by the governing board (you) back in August of 2001.  Over 16 years ago.  Over 16 years ago we realized the chapter model was in trouble.  Over 16 years ago we understood we needed to get in front of Motorhome buyers.  Read it Carl and tell me why it failed to be implemented as required by our bylaws it's right here--->>> https://www.fmca.com/images/stories/pdf/strategicplan.pdf

 

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Seems to me this topic serves nothing but to irritate people. Maybe it needs to be shut down for a while.

Roland

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Roland.  Agree.  Problem is that our Fearless leader Brett and whole family, is right now in, "Life Boat Drill", aboard a cruise ship in Galveston, TX. that will depart in 15 minutes for a Christmas cruise!  7 days with his 100 year old Dad.:wub:

Jeff, in 2001 I was not in the USA...think Brazil and Argentina, then West Coast of Africa!  Some Scandinavia and Spain! From 1999 to 2002!  I voted the way my Chapter felt, then 2 months ago, I voted the way I felt.  The membership (12%) have spoken and I accept that....I did not go to a quiet room and play with playdough!  I'm now working to make the transition as smooth as possible! Period.

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I disagree Roland.  I think this topic is exactly what needs to be seen by all members and hopefully spurs some action before FMCA fades to black.

I also don't see any irritation except for one person, the rest are asking reasonable questions and getting reasonable answers.

Shutting down conversation is a great way to ensure that FMCA continues to go along with blinders on, oblivious to the changing world around it.

IMHO, Jeff is one of a very few people who are trying their best to improve the organization and help it start to grow again.

So far as I can see, his thanks for that effort seems to be false allegations and requests to shut him up.

Jeff, there are many of us "silent majority" that don't belong to chapters and  appreciate your hard work with the Energized Group.

 

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Avatab your silent majority did nothing in the past to help matters, what makes you think they will do something now. Most of the FMCA members could give a rat”s a** what happens to the club as the past vote shows. Perhaps a new club with new members is what is needed, it is just that this constant bickering is getting old.

Roland

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2 hours ago, Avatab said:

I disagree Roland.  I think this topic is exactly what needs to be seen by all members and hopefully spurs some action before FMCA fades to black.

I also don't see any irritation except for one person, the rest are asking reasonable questions and getting reasonable answers.

Shutting down conversation is a great way to ensure that FMCA continues to go along with blinders on, oblivious to the changing world around it.

IMHO, Jeff is one of a very few people who are trying their best to improve the organization and help it start to grow again.

So far as I can see, his thanks for that effort seems to be false allegations and requests to shut him up.

Jeff, there are many of us "silent majority" that don't belong to chapters and  appreciate your hard work with the Energized Group.

 

Thanks.  If you are on Facebook you can join the conversation with our group here-->>> https://www.facebook.com/groups/fmcau60taskforce/
It's a less hostile environment;)

The fact that non chapter members have no say needs to be fixed. The FMCA Constitution says in part:
---Article III Government of FMCA
1. Source of Authority:
A. The governing authority of FMCA, hereinafter referred to
as the Governing Board, is derived from its members

------
It doesn't say only from Chapter Members 
Again we have nothing against Chapters and think social gatherings are great!  We believe areas would expand their rally attendance drastically if they became focused on all the members in their areas. 

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