Boondocking

[barksdm@sbcglobal.net]

I am a full-hookup kind of camper. I will be visiting Yellowstone in June. The Yellowstone people have informed me that my full-hookup site will not have electricity. My question is: How long will I have to run my generator each day to keep my batteries topped off? I have a 6,500-kilowatt Onan that runs on propane. I have two house batteries that are 2 years old. Let's assume that I will not be running my AC, or the generator would already be running. The Yellowstone people told me I could expect to run my furnace at night. I will be running my frig and hot water heater on propane. I am supposed to have water, so I don't have to power my water pump. Just minimal lighting, the furnace blower, and maybe a Fan-Tastic vent during the day. I would like to make coffee and maybe some quick microwaving if I can't cook outside (bears) while the generator is running. I will be staying five nights. I have 110 # of propane. But with everything running on propane I don't want to run out by using my generator to much. Plus, I want to be a good neighbor.

Thanks for any help you can give me.

[wolfe10]

Your biggest electric draw unless you power appliances from your inverter is your furnace. Most draw close to 10 amps of 12 VDC while running.

From many years of boating where you can't plug in we, run the generator morning and night when your electric demand for other needs is highest.

The number of hours it needs to run is dependent on many things:

1. 12 VDC electric draw (expressed in amp) and the duration of that load (expressed in amp-hrs)

2. Size of battery bank (expressed in amp-hours. Two batteries can have a widely varying amp-hr capacity depending on WHAT 2 batteries they are.

3. Condition and state of charge of the batteries. Obivously, if fully charged, they can "power" you longer. But when dry camping, running a generator to charge at levels above about 85% charge is a waste of propane.

4. Kind and size of your battery charger or inverter/charger. Many coaches are fit with smart inverter/chargers that can charge at over 100 amps, while others have"dumb" converters that struggle to get 20 amps to the battery and at lower voltage.

The other variable of course is how long you will be dry camping (particularly in terms of propane supply).

Fill in some of these blanks for us and we may be able to give you a better idea.

Brett Wolfe

[genenick]

There other question I have is have you had your batteries tested lately? You can go to a good battery shop and they can do a load test to see just exactly how they will perform. One other thing to consider it that the colder the environment is, the lower your battery will performance will be.

Enjoy your trip!!

Gene

[NWJeeper]

If you can afford to do so, replace some of your most common used lights with either flourescent fixtures or LED bulbs. Although the cost is high for Flourescent and a bit higher for the LED it is worth it for dry camping. We are slowly making the switch to all LED in our rig a few lights at a time. I suggest replacing the bulbs in one light fixture in the bedroom, bathroom and living area to start with, more if you can afford it. The current draw of LED bulbs over incandescent is a lot less. Do some looking around there are lots of possibilites out there. We just recieved some LED panels that replace the 198 wedge base bulbs in our overhead lights today from an Ebay seller. The panels are just under $10 each, free shipping and come from Hong Kong. Several guys on another forum group I frequent have used them and like them plus the price is about half what they are from other online vendors. I will be trying them out today when I get home from work.

[tbutler]

Our set up is different so our experience will have some differences. We have four 6V batteries and an 7.5 KW diesel generator. We boondock frequently, most times on road trips, parking at Wal-Mart, rest stops and other parking areas with no services. Two years ago we were in Jasper National Park and could only get a non-electric site. We've been in cold weather with no hookups on a fairly frequent basis.

Here is how I would approach a typical day. Rising in the morning, the coach will be cool to cold because you will set the furnace at a temperature like 55, 60 or 65 degrees for overnight. The lower you can stand to set it, the less the furnace will run and the better your battery life. Bring plenty of blankets and be prepared to live with the cooler indoor temperatures. For five nights you could even sleep in some good sleeping bags. You run from the bedroom to start the generator, turn the furnace up to a comfortable temperature, turn on the coffee pot which you have preloaded the night before and then jump back into bed to let the furnace do its work. Depending on your neighbors, you may do this at 6:00 a.m. if they are all motor homes and have generators that are running. If you have tenters in the neighborhood, 8:00 a.m. would be more considerate. If the sun is shining, open the curtains to let the sun shine in and assist the furnace. Once you are up and about, turn on the TV if you desire to pick up the latest news and a weather forecast. Get breakfast while the generator is running. We switch our refrigerator to electric when the generator is running as the electric cools our refrigerator better than propane. It takes about an hour and a half to do all this and in that time the batteries are in real good shape.

Shut off the furnace or turn it down again, switch the refrigerator to gas, lights off and exit the house leaving curtains drawn if the weather is cold and cloudy. If the day will be sunny and you'll be back well before sunset, leave the curtains open to get as much solar heat as possible. Enjoy your day. When you return note the temperature of the coach and when you see it starting to drop, close the curtains if they are open. Start the generator, switch the refrigerator to electric if that is better for your fridge, cook, run the furnace, catch up on news and weather on the TV, read, etc. About a half your before turning off the generator, set the furnace temperature up several degrees to warm the house well. Then turn the temperature back to a comfortable evening temperature if you are going to stay up and read, etc. At bed time set the furnace back as cool as you can tolerate and go to bed. You want to be sure you have a good charge on the batteries before a cold evening as the night is going to be the real test of your batteries. I run our generator for several hours in the evening to be sure I have a good charge on the batteries. We also have good indicators of battery charge with our instrumentation so I always check that before shutting down the generator.

A few nights at this and you'll be a pro. You'll know how well your batteries handle the furnace for a given outdoor temperature and thermostat setting. You might luck out and have nice weather with sunshine and moderate night temperatures. Five days is a short stay at Yellowstone. You may want to stay even longer! Enjoy!

[barksdm@sbcglobal.net]

Your biggest electric draw unless you power appliances from your inverter is your furnace. Most draw close to 10 amps of 12 VDC while running.

From many years of boating where you can't plug in we, run the generator morning and night when your electric demand for other needs is highest.

The number of hours it needs to run is dependent on many things:

1. 12 VDC electric draw (expressed in amp) and the duration of that load (expressed in amp-hrs)

2. Size of battery bank (expressed in amp-hours. Two batteries can have a widely varying amp-hr capacity depending on WHAT 2 batteries they are.

3. Condition and state of charge of the batteries. Obivously, if fully charged, they can "power" you longer. But when dry camping, running a generator to charge at levels above about 85% charge is a waste of propane.

4. Kind and size of your battery charger or inverter/charger. Many coaches are fit with smart inverter/chargers that can charge at over 100 amps, while others have"dumb" converters that struggle to get 20 amps to the battery and at lower voltage.

The other variable of course is how long you will be dry camping (particularly in terms of propane supply).

Fill in some of these blanks for us and we may be able to give you a better idea.

Brett Wolfe

Thanks for your help. I'm not sure what size my batteries are or what kind of onboard charger I have. My coach is vintage 1996 50 amp set up. I believe the charger is good sized because if I pull into a park with questionable power it trips the breaker on the pole. I purchased the biggest deep cycle batteries walmart had. I'll try running the generator an hour or so in the morning and again before I go to bed.

Thanks again

[joenan@gmail.com]

Besides the genny, you might consider starting the engine when you first jump out of bed. When warmed, it'll heat up the front of the coach nicely while charging the batts at a rate somewhat faster than the genny. Every time I suggest this, some folks get into a tizzy because the engine uses more gas than the genny. I don't know about you, but my coach gets 7 to 7.5 mpg, and burning another pint of gas daily won't even dither that mpg figure. If we were so interested in fuel efficiency, we would be tenting. Do whatever makes you and the DW the most comfortable.

[wolfe10]

Besides the genny, you might consider starting the engine when you first jump out of bed. When warmed, it'll heat up the front of the coach nicely while charging the batts at a rate somewhat faster than the genny. Every time I suggest this, some folks get into a tizzy because the engine uses more gas than the genny. I don't know about you, but my coach gets 7 to 7.5 mpg, and burning another pint of gas daily won't even dither that mpg figure. If we were so interested in fuel efficiency, we would be tenting. Do whatever makes you and the DW the most comfortable.

Here are some counter points to running the main engine to recharge the battery/heat the coach:

As you mention, it takes a LOT more fuel to run a 400+ CID engine than the small one in your generator.

It is bad for any engine to run at idle, including high idle, as it allows moisture to build in the crankcase. The OIL, not just coolant needs to get hot enough to burn off the moisture. And this generally takes 20+ highway miles.

Running the generator under load (50% or more) is better for it than light loads. Said another way, if it is cold out, turn on some electric heaters while running the generator to charge the batteries. If hot, turn on the A/C(s). The load of just the converter, charger or inverter/charger working to charge the battery is NOT enough load to make the generator happy.

And in terms of heat produced per dollar or gallon of fuel, your propane heater is a LOT more efficient than your large engine.

As you suggest, the decision is yours, but weighing all the factors leads the vast majority of us to running the generator, not the main engine while dry camping.

Brett Wolfe

[Guest BillAdams]

I would never run my engine for additional heat/charging. As mentioned above, it is really bad for the engine, is incredibly rude if you have any neighbors at all and it is certainly not an efficient use of energy. Please note that I said "I would never" and mean no offense to anyone with a different opinion.

Your 110# propane tank contains a bit less than 18 gallons of propane and your generator will use about 1/2 gallon of propane per hour as well as the amount of propane used by the furnace, water heater and refrigerator. You are going to need to keep an eye on your propane levels as you will find that the 110# does not last as long as it might sound like it should. Our previous coach was diesel with a propane genset but we had a somewhat larger propane tank. We took a trip (with pets on board) in very hot and humid weather and we had to run the genset 24 hours per day. We had to refill our tanks every other day! That was the last time we planned a similar trip!

At least we now have a diesel engine and generator and we carry enough fuel in the tank to take care of most any need for many days. We found this to be a real benefit when we went to New Orleans after Katrina to try to help those in need. There were no campgrounds and it was so hot and humid you could never turn off the A/C. That meant that we had one stretch where we ran the generator for 9 days without turning it off except for a few minutes every other day to check the oil. We were in real need of more fuel when that stink was over. Think you are going to save money dry camping? Try doing this when fuel costs $3+ per gallon and you have a generator like ours that gulps just less than 1 gallon per hour.

[Guest 2driftrs]

Our two cents worth, try boondocking in your back yard a few times in the heat, and a few times in the cold. That will answer your questions as to generator, engine, nothing, whatever. By doing so, your final decision includes answers to the unknowns, like do you have enough battery capacity, big enough propane tank, noise issues, etc. It also will be tailored to your life style. Some folks use lots of juice, others very little. Contrary to popular belief, what's good for the goose is not always good for the gander.

[Xplorer]

When we have had to get by without hookups,,,,,we use the generator in the morning to run the coffee pot, check the news and weather,,,,then again in the evening for awhile to check news weather charge cell phones, computer battery....

Always maintained enough power to live comfortably.....