Excessive weight on front axles

[ctammyh@hotmail.com]

My wife Tammy and I live in Missouri City, and we purchased our first motorhome in Sept. 2017.  It was a 2011 Tiffin Allegro Bus 43 QRP with 24K miles.  We just joined FMCA and have a question.  After having the bus weighed, Tag 9,000, Drive 13,500, Stear 14,600, I contacted Tiffin and they said I had too much weight on the Tag Axle.  They sent me 2 boxes with 2 valves each and 2 electrical cables.  I told them that the bus would be at Cummins in Houston on March 5th for fluid change in the engine, transmission and generator and also the problem with the weight on the Tag Axle.  They are also a Power Glide Service Center.  After speaking with Cummins it was clear that they did not have a clue about changing the valves and  Tiffin asked me to contact them when I bring the bus in so Tiffin could explain what needs to be done.  Our concerns are that Cummins will not perform the valve replacement and I am not thrilled with having to drive to Red Bay to have them replaced.  I will say that to my surprise Tiffin provided the valves at no cost.  This may be helpful to the Tiffin owners who have this problem and if the service center here will understand the problem then others can have it addressed here.

[jleamont]

ctammyh; Welcome the the FMCA Forum!

Sounds like there is too much down pressure on the tag, thus transferring weight to the steer axle. I'm not surprised they sent the correction parts for free, they produced a coach unsafe to operate with an overloaded axle, and of all axles the steer . In the end its their responsibility to have it right when it left the factory, they failed and are trying to make it right. I would have it aligned afterwards and a through inspection of the front suspension just to be certain its straight and nothing is worn out from carrying all of that weight on something not designed to do so, also couldn't hurt to have the tires inspected also. 

Speaking of tires, since the coach is a 2011, any idea how old they are?

[manholt]

ctammyh.  Welcome to FMCA and the Forum!

Freightliner is also able to work on the PG chassis...They are located close to South Plains Cummins.  Give them a call.  They are very good, I used them for my PG when I had my 2011 Bus!  Everything else, went to Cummins and 17,800 miles in 3 years, to Red Bay! POS.

 

[wayne77590]

If at Cummins in Houston you will be a short ride, 3.2 miles, to Freightliner Houston.

Can they work on your chassis.

[ctammyh@hotmail.com]

Thanks for your response. The tires are 1 year old and yes I plan to have them inspect the front end suspension but I don't have a lot of confidence.  I am going to the Juke Joint festival in Clarksdale, MS, not far from Red Bay and Custom RV is several guys who worked in the Chassis Dept at Tiffin work there.  They know the problem and the fix so if I am not happy with Cummins I will go there.  The main reason for Cummins is I noticed a small leak of red fluid and I think it is from the transmission.  I''m to fat to get under one side to confirm so I will let them check it out.  Makes sense to let them change the oil, Transmission fluid while there but it I need to go to Red Bay I will have everything checked, Radiator fluid changed, oil in fan motor, all filters, Gen. set and all belts. I just wanted anyone who has a bus like mine that may have this problem should contact Tiffin as they are aware and know the fix.

[manholt]

Allison is right down the block from Freightliner.  Red bay is not as nice as they used to be....there is a whole tread on them from last year and 2016!

[ispjs]

"After having the bus weighed, Tag 9,000, Drive 13,500, Stear 14,600, I contacted Tiffin and they said I had too much weight on the Tag Axle."

Even though I have a Newmar, our coaches are about the same length.  When I weighed, loaded, without toad/trailer, tag was 2,860, steer axle 13,660, drives 22,020, and my coach's total weight is slightly more.  So I agree, there is an issue with your tag.

[jleamont]

I have no tag experience in an RV application, but a lot in commercial trucks. So what I'm seeing in this set up it's not adjustable? In a truck you can adjust how much down pressure, now the driver cannot do this but a mechanic can in a few minutes. 

[ctammyh@hotmail.com]

Hi Jleamont,  The original valves were 60/40 and not adjustable.  What Tiffin sent me were 2 adjustable valves, one marked DS and the other marked PS.  When I talked with Cummins they said that they didn't have any scales and couldn't do the work because the axles had to be weighed to confirm the weight.  I think that Tiffin calibrated the valves as they are marked for each side for installation and I also think they are set for 70/30 as that was the range that they used for other RV's like mine.  They also had our axle weights.  Tiffin also let me know that the outgoing pressure of the valves had to be in a certain pound range.  The only piece to the puzzle we haven't figured out is the new valves have an electrical connection and I don't know if the original valves do. One way or another we are going to figure this out and when we do we will let everyone know.  I took pictures of the new valves but haven't figured how to get this Apple to work to post them here but I can send in a text message.  PM me and I can send them to you if you would like to see them.

[manholt]

ctammyh.  Send Joe a PM with photos & he will repost them for you.

[jleamont]

ctammyh, to post a photo from an apple device; 

Save the photo to your device

go to this post as if you are going to reply

select "Click to choose files" it has a paper clip to the left of it

you should see a pop up, select "Photo Library"

select "Camera Roll" from your device

tap the photo or photos you want

select "Done" in  the right upper corner

select "submit reply" on the screen, it should upload

Locating a shop with portable scales could be difficult and is absolutely the correct way to dial them in, unless Tiffin can provide a close air outbound pressure and the shop can "T" a gauge into the line coming off to put you into a window and you could seek out a scale soon and make the adjustments yourself if you feel comfortable. Otherwise locating a shop with scales could be a challenge.

The electric should be on the current valving as well, it is for your lift function.

[ctammyh@hotmail.com]

15 hours ago, jleamont said:

ctammyh, to post a photo from an apple device; 

Save the photo to your device

go to this post as if you are going to reply

select "Click to choose files" it has a paper clip to the left of it

you should see a pop up, select "Photo Library"

select "Camera Roll" from your device

tap the photo or photos you want

select "Done" in  the right upper corner

select "submit reply" on the screen, it should upload

Locating a shop with portable scales could be difficult and is absolutely the correct way to dial them in, unless Tiffin can provide a close air outbound pressure and the shop can "T" a gauge into the line coming off to put you into a window and you could seek out a scale soon and make the adjustments yourself if you feel comfortable. Otherwise locating a shop with scales could be a challenge.

The electric should be on the current valving as well, it is for your lift function.

We have decided to try and find a mobile tech. who can check and see what the leak is and if they can fix it for our trip in April to Clarksdale, MS.  From there we can go to Red Bay, Lake Shore Custom RV who can do the install as they all worked in the Chassis Dept at Tiffin.  We also wanted to make sure that this small leak doesn't blow up into something major while on this trip.  We are not worried too much about the oil and filter change before the trip as we understand that we are a little early on that maintenance and Lake Shore has our confidence.  We really would like to have a technician to check out this leak but do not know who to call as we live in Missouri City, TX, so if you or anyone knows or can recommend someone we would be grateful.

Bill,  Tammy's better half.

[manholt]

Bill. Welcome.

Is there a reason, for you not moving the rig now, and go to Allison in E. Houston?  Mobile Tech, can be very expensive.

[kaypsmith]

While in Red Bay, be sure to get acquainted with McKinney RV/salvage. They have a great selection of almost everything that you may ever need.  And for future reference.

[elkhartjim]

I'm certainly a novice on this subject but I would be concerned with what damage, if any, has occurred in the 24,000 miles the motorhome has been driven with the weights so out of whack. Could the leak in the Allison be attributed to this weight issues? Personally, I would not want to drive the motorhome any further than absolutely necessary. 

[ctammyh@hotmail.com]

21 minutes ago, elkhartjim said:

I'm certainly a novice on this subject but I would be concerned with what damage, if any, has occurred in the 24,000 miles the motorhome has been driven with the weights so out of whack. Could the leak in the Allison be attributed to this weight issues? Personally, I would not want to drive the motorhome any further than absolutely necessary. 

I was told by Tiffin that the weight on the front axles did not exceed the design weight or the tire weight and was within the specs, but the high end of them.  I am concerned as I did not want this additional weight to shorten the life of the front tires.

Bill

[jleamont]

Bill, take a peek at the tire weights posted on the side wall, total the two and see for yourself. That's the part you can see, the suspension weights you cannot verify. 

I wouldn't trust Tiffin at this point. they failed horribly once and let that coach drive around for 7 years without notifying the owner of the present hazard. If it's a known problem there should have been some sort of recall. 

I would hate to see you or any other drive that down the road and something fail catastrophically. I have to agree with Jim, drive it cautiously to the closest place of repair. Try a truck repair shop with scales, they have to be plentiful in TX. Get that fixed and turn the page...go out and enjoy it!

[ctammyh@hotmail.com]

1 hour ago, manholt said:

Bill. Welcome.

Is there a reason, for you not moving the rig now, and go to Allison in E. Houston?  Mobile Tech, can be very expensive.

From the reviews posted on Cummins, the shop labor was billed at 135.00 hr.  I don't know what the hourly cost for a Mobile Tech is but if it is anywhere close to that amount I am fine and won't have to worry about any damage.

[ctammyh@hotmail.com]

11 minutes ago, jleamont said:

Bill, take a peek at the tire weights posted on the side wall, total the two and see for yourself. That's the part you can see, the suspension weights you cannot verify. 

I wouldn't trust Tiffin at this point. they failed horribly once and let that coach drive around for 7 years without notifying the owner of the present hazard. If it's a known problem there should have been some sort of recall. 

I would hate to see you or any other drive that down the road and something fail catastrophically. The outcome may or may not have a serious problem occur! I have to agree with Jim, drive it cautiously to the closest place of repair. Try a truck repair shop with scales, they have to be plentiful in TX. Get that fixed and turn the page...go out and enjoy it!

I have had every wheel axle weighed independently and also at Cat scales.  My front tires are carrying 120# each to support the weight and according to Mitchlens tire chart the max is 130#.  I have not been comfortable with being that close to the designed max even though they are new tires.  Also according to Tiffin the weight I am carrying now is within the design specs for the front axles.

 I know that not to correct this will, in the long run, be a problem and I am committed to get this corrected.  I have never understood how many will just put the amount of air in the tires that is shown on the Manufacture's placard.

Thank you for your response,

Bill

[elkhartjim]

What about 9000# on the tag and drive 13,500#? 

Here again, I'm a novice but that seems way out of range. Like Joe said, I would be a little hesitant trusting Tiffin at this point. Newmar had a problem with front axle weights on the 2016 Dutch Star models and had a recall where they replaced the front axle and wheels. 

Please understand, I'm only wanting to gain more knowledge since I'm a first time tag owner with our Newmar. 

You mentioned mobile service being similar in cost to in house, I've never found that to be the case and most likely to find a qualified tech you're either going to a Freightliner shop or a major truck mechanic. I'll be interested in what you find in the Houston area.

Please keep us updated.

[manholt]

Bill.  I run my tires at 115, rated for 125 cold.  In December, due to cold weather, I put 125 in all 8 tires.  Tuesday, I checked all 8 after a round trip to NE Texas, and they where at 105 to 112...Cold will do that.  Just as heat will do the opposite. 

[wayne77590]

I also am a 1st time tag axle owner and am interested in the topic.

 

[five]

There should be three separate sets of TPs, one for each axle, since each axle is carrying a different load.  The TP used should come from the manufacturer's manual, not the sticker on the wall that shows max pressure.  And, as Tireman has recommended, I add a 10% fudge factor to the TP in the manual.  Also, this time of year, your TP goes down one degree for every 10 degrees of temperature going down, so I add for that.   One other thing that I have to remember to do is switch tires on the chart...I have 315s on the front and 295s everywhere else.

[five]

7 minutes ago, FIVE said:

There should be three separate sets of TPs, one for each axle, since each axle is carrying a different load.  The TP used should come from the manufacturer's manual, not the sticker on the wall that shows max pressure.  And, as Tireman has recommended, I add a 10% fudge factor to the TP in the manual.  Also, this time of year, your TP goes down one degree for every 10 degrees of temperature going down, so I add for that.   One other thing that I have to remember to do is switch tires on the chart...I have 315s on the front and 295s everywhere else.

 

[elkhartjim]

I think that's a given, are you trying to make another point that I'm missing? BTW, it took me a minute to figure TP was tire pressure. That usually indicates something else on my shopping list.