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huffypuff

Battery replacement not going so good.

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Ray, my coach is a 2010, my Lippert's are 2004 & 2006...Girrard don't make the motors on my 2004 electric awnings anymore!  :angry:  Your steps are my steps. :lol:

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58 minutes ago, manholt said:

Ray, my coach is a 2010, my Lippert's are 2004 & 2006...Girrard don't make the motors on my 2004 electric awnings anymore!  :angry:  Your steps are my steps. :lol:

Yes, the step is a very simple design.  A motor that turns a flat gear plate which push/pull a link on a bell crank that raises or lowers the steps through a network of linkage .  The controller on the other hand I have little ideal.  I haven't got to the patio awning yet, I had enough until I go south.   

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35 minutes ago, huffypuff said:

As of last night both parts are here.  What could go wrong?Step_parts.thumb.jpg.5203ea15b12e1209f7a23172970c62ea.jpg  

Hopefully it goes better than the battery replacement that started this post :o.

Standing by for the outcome...

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Well I got the new parts in and the new motor runs good with the power probe.  I can run the steps in and our with no problem using the power probe so that half of the battle solved.    Plugged in the new controller to the coach and steps went all the way in  and don't come back out regardless if door is open or not.   I tested voltage from the coach plug Red battery power good, white switch power good, yellow ignition power good.  The brown wire I didn't know what to test there but just found out that it supposed to be a ground when the door opens.  Also I found out that the steps will not deploy or work until it first see a ground at the brown wire.  Looks like my work is not done as I said, what could go wrong?

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I don't have any hard facts on this, but I'd be willing to guess that a huge number of electrical problems can be traced back to ground connection problems.

Glad to hear that you are making progress. Sounds like you're attacking this methodically and will get it fully functional soon.

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2 hours ago, manholt said:

No ground, no response.  Makes sense! 

 

2 hours ago, richard5933 said:

I don't have any hard facts on this, but I'd be willing to guess that a huge number of electrical problems can be traced back to ground connection problems.

Glad to hear that you are making progress. Sounds like you're attacking this methodically and will get it fully functional soon.

Yes the controller has its own grounds, two of them  bolted  to the frame with a third ground going to them.  Hard to figure it needed a ground there since it has a magnetic door switch.  What I'm going to  try next is pull the switch out and see what I find.  

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15 hours ago, huffypuff said:

Well I got the new parts in and the new motor runs good with the power probe.  I can run the steps in and our with no problem using the power probe so that half of the battle solved.    Plugged in the new controller to the coach and steps went all the way in  and don't come back out regardless if door is open or not.   I tested voltage from the coach plug Red battery power good, white switch power good, yellow ignition power good.  The brown wire I didn't know what to test there but just found out that it supposed to be a ground when the door opens.  Also I found out that the steps will not deploy or work until it first see a ground at the brown wire.  Looks like my work is not done as I said, what could go wrong?

Ray, Did you just replace the motor or a kit with new control board also?  

Who did you get the parts from? Have a few different files on file. Some motors come with a motor connection that reverses the polarity of the motor wires and the control board circuit does not like that.

Rich.

 

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Today during lunch time today I back probed the brown wire on the 4 way plug on the controller.  I was getting a backfeed of 10.5 volts.  Then I grounded the brown wire with the power probe and the steps deployed like it's supposed to.  When I release the ground the steps went back in.  Next I popped out the magnetic door switch and found the ground wire to be present and appears to go through the switch.   I cut and stripped both wires and found a ground on one wire and voltage backfeed from the controller of about 6 volts.   I twisted together the ground and the wire going to the controller and nothing happen.  

That would be a about a 40% drop from the 4 way plug under the coach to the door switch.  I stripped the wires of the door switch to check for continuity and found continuity with the switch away from the magnet and none as soon as near the magnet.  So it appears that it has a bad wire from the door switch to the 4 way plug to the controller.  

To prove it I will run a jumper wire from the ground at the door switch to the controller brown wire.  If the steps deploy then I have to look for greenie meanies inside the wiring harness going up to the coach.  

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11 hours ago, F433921 said:

Ray,

You might find that the magnetic door switch is switching a ground lead vs a hot lead.

Jim

Yes you are right, the ground must be complete to deploy the steps.  

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6 hours ago, DickandLois said:

Ray, Did you just replace the motor or a kit with new control board also?  

Who did you get the parts from? Have a few different files on file. Some motors come with a motor connection that reverses the polarity of the motor wires and the control board circuit does not like that.

Rich.

 

I put in the same part numbers that came out.  The motor does reverse polarity for the direction it's suppose to go. 

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Let me say that the house batteries are now doing fine They are staying around 13 volts when not on charge and no load.  I won't be afraid to dry camp with them.  As for the steps, they are also fixed.  I reinstalled the door switch and then went under the coach to trace the brown wire.  About an inch from the coach side of the plug there was a spot of green on the wire about the size of a pin hole.  Maybe someone at sometime poked it with a test light.  I pulled on that wire and it easily broke in half.  Repaired that wire and now the steps works as it supposed to.  

The  synopsis  of the steps is as follows:  Battery power to house and chassis was disconnected to install house batteries.  When batteries were reconnected the steps moved in about 1/4 of it's travel.  After losing power the steps are supposed to pull in if the door is closed.  Because the motor was bad it only went in 1/4 of the way.  At one point the motor brought in the door about 2/3 of the way.  Fuses all check out as well as power to the plug  and the motor would run on the bench but not on the coach.  I got a motor and  controller to be sure I have all the parts I need.  When I installed the new parts the steps went all the way in and stayed.  I found out that when I applied a ground to the brown wire the steps went out.  I then checked for a ground at the door switch and the switch checked OK.  I reinstall door switch after verifying that the brown wire had a voltage drop from 4 way plug underneath to the door switch.  I went underneath the coach and found some greenie meanies where maybe someone poked the wire with a test light.  Fixed that wire and now steps works.  

I came to the conclusion that the failed parts was the motor and the wire.  The wiring on the controller was butcher so I'm glad to replace it.  It probably would of worked with a new motor.   The awning is going to be another adventure.  I'm leaving on the 15th for Quartzite, AZ  then to Desert Hot Springs, CA for a month.    Hope I don't have as much fun with the awning.  

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6 hours ago, huffypuff said:

I went underneath the coach and found some greenie meanies where maybe someone poked the wire with a test light.

I go through this daily, we have actually had training classes with our mechanics and bought back probe kits to stop this old way of doing things, still happens! You should see how one little piercing will shut a new engine down from the greenie meanies!

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Great work Ray, these are some of the same problems that I also work with daily. This past Monday one of my techs came to me and asked me to check a switch on a very large and expensive printer, I flipped the switch, nothing happened, asked if the printer was plugged in, answer was no. I looked at the power wire, was way too small, swapped for the correct wire, flipped the switch, viola everything worked again, tech scratched his head and said, never thought about that.:rolleyes:

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Ray, Best wishes on a warm winter in SoCal & that the awning is an easy fix!  Keep in touch..:)

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4 hours ago, jleamont said:

I go through this daily, we have actually had training classes with our mechanics and bought back probe kits to stop this old way of doing things, still happens! You should see how one little piercing will shut a new engine down from the greenie meanies!

Yes, who ever did it could of back probe that wire at the connector.  That wasn't the only sin they did wrong.  

4 hours ago, kaypsmith said:

Great work Ray, these are some of the same problems that I also work with daily. This past Monday one of my techs came to me and asked me to check a switch on a very large and expensive printer, I flipped the switch, nothing happened, asked if the printer was plugged in, answer was no. I looked at the power wire, was way too small, swapped for the correct wire, flipped the switch, viola everything worked again, tech scratched his head and said, never thought about that.:rolleyes:

Wait till you see the ground wires hack on the controller.

1 hour ago, manholt said:

Ray, Best wishes on a warm winter in SoCal & that the awning is an easy fix!  Keep in touch..:)

Thank you Carl. The fuse for the awning is not up front but may be in the back bedroom.  The lockout switch lights up so I don't think it's a fuse but who knows.

 

 

Why would somebody hack the grounds like this?  They didn't even match up he same gage wires.  The new controller came with 2  new grounding terminals factory made.  You can't be too lazy to unbolt the grounds from the frame.   Probably the same person that poked the wire. 

Hacked_Controller.thumb.jpg.abe77c9e6a0b745a339a058ea2b1d8de.jpg

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24 minutes ago, huffypuff said:

Why would somebody hack the grounds like this?  They didn't even match up he same gage wires.  The new controller came with 2  new grounding terminals factory made.  You can't be too lazy to unbolt the grounds from the frame.   Probably the same person that poked the wire.

Ohhhh wow!! Couldn't have the courtesy at the minimum use the correct gauge wire let alone heat shrink butt connectors (which I am not a fan of either):(. That looks like a campground repair that was forgotten about. 

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Ray, I found the fuses to my awnings under the second step..:(

Step control wiring...ugh!  Surprised it lasted this long. :blink::wacko:

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10 hours ago, manholt said:

Ray, I found the fuses to my awnings under the second step..:(

Step control wiring...ugh!  Surprised it lasted this long. :blink::wacko:

Oh no now I'm going to have nightmares of the awning is tied to the steps.  I thought the problem might be near the top by the motor.  

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Ray, relax, it probably is.  My wire harness for the awnings start at the step, goes up a channel by the door to ceiling then split. Each bundle has a inline fuse, one set goes to the main awning switch in the control panel for battery info. then I have a master control with 5 switches..one for each awning...then another switch in bedroom!  The other bundle runs in a channel under ceiling to the 2 other awnings, each has it's own switch!  The master control is for my remote!  Oh, they stopped production on my motors in 2006 and ??? no replacements are offered.  When my motor died in Mexico, in 2014...my choice was to replace the door awning or remove and live without.  $1,200+ Labor, no thanks, I don't go out in heavy rain!

Every day, I knock on wood, my other awnings are operational.

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