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paulrem

Salesman switch shorts out transfer switch

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Had a new alternator installed on my Phaeton. Plugged in to the same 15 amp circuit as usual when I got it back home. Noticed that the salesman switch was off and when I turned it on, the  transfer switch made a banging noise and tripped the house panel breaker. Turned off the salesman switch, reset breaker, let the batteries charge completely, and same problem this morning. Inverter has a green light and appears to be working fine. If I disconnect from shore power, I can turn on salesman switch and all my 12 volt systems are good. Any thoughts?

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I always disconnect from shore power when I start generator. 12 volt system works fine when genny running, but I noticed that when I flip salesman switch to on, rpm’s go up. No noise at transfer switch on generator. Noise at transfer switch is from bottom left relay in photo; the “points” open close rapidly. 

38047BC3-81A8-45B1-A73B-8C1ED66CEF3C.jpeg

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11 minutes ago, paulrem said:

I always disconnect from shore power when I start generator. 12 volt system works fine when genny running, but I noticed that when I flip salesman switch to on, rpm’s go up. No noise at transfer switch on generator. Noise at transfer switch is from bottom left relay in photo; the “points” open close rapidly. 

38047BC3-81A8-45B1-A73B-8C1ED66CEF3C.jpeg

Sounds like they go the Chassis and Coach 12 volts reversed when the New alternator was installed. This could be the cause of the rapid clicking sound as the relay power is opening and closing as the relay coil power is interrupted every time the relay cycles. Something is wired wrong ! What cables did the Tech? remove and where did they get connected? It currently is wired incorrectly. Time to find out if the coach and chassis 12 volt sources got reversed somehow.

Rich.

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Rich, he’s checking it now but says there’s nothing to reverse. One hot, one ground. Suggestions where he should look?

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11 hours ago, paulrem said:

Rich, he’s checking it now but says there’s nothing to reverse. One hot, one ground. Suggestions where he should look?

They may have caused a short while replacing the alternator positive connection. Think you model Coach has a battery isolate  block / device located in a bay area of near the  area of the battery banks. Alternator feeds Positive voltage to one terminal and it is split to charge both the house and chassis batteries. through a diode circuit built inside the device.. Might be able to dis connect the center wire ( engine turned off) and see what the resistance is between the center connection and the cables feeding 12 volts to both battery banks. They should read the same . might need to reverse the ohm meter wires to get both the forward and reverse resistance. Very high in one direction and much lower in the other direction. 

I hope this link attaches, is an example of the device. There are many different makes and models. But a new one needs to match the specifications of the OEM unit.  Lookup Sure Power. com

Model number 1314 or 1315.

Hope this helps It is my first thought, but each coach is setup a little different. Ignition circuit can come to play if there is a diode between the ignition switch and the  and the starter solenoid relay mounted between the starter 12 volt battery power form the chassis battery circuit . 

The fact that you do not have any coach power when the salesman switch is turned on and the 12 volts is present when the generator or shore power 120 volts is powering the charger section of the inverter / charger. They should have the chassis/ coach wiring files for your coach to trace down the problem.  It become a real issue when one is dry camping and using solar power to keep the coach batteries charged and connected, because 12 volts powers the refrigerator system, the furnace, lights, radio and many more critical systems.

Because coaches have a split 12 volt system. They become much more complicated. EMS equipment people / techs work with every day.

Rich.

       

Edited by DickandLois

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Chassis and coach 12 volts is not at the transfer switch, it will be where 12 volts ties to the isolater to push 12 volts to the chassis battery instead of the house batteries. The salesman switch turns on and off the house batteries to preserve the charge in the house batteries. Transfer switch only controls shore AC and generator AC to the coach AC circuitry.

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35 minutes ago, kaypsmith said:

Chassis and coach 12 volts is not at the transfer switch, it will be where 12 volts ties to the isolater to push 12 volts to the chassis battery instead of the house batteries. The salesman switch turns on and off the house batteries to preserve the charge in the house batteries. Transfer switch only controls shore AC and generator AC to the coach AC circuitry.

Good Point Kay. However. The relay started to chatter after the Alternator was replaced. Trying to think of where or how the 12 volts that power the salesman switch coil power got crossed into the circuit that power the coach 12 volt power on and off switch circuit. some thing got changed around or cross wired.

Sure sounds like it is toggling on an off every time the salesman switch is energized.

Rich.

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I would check the output voltage at the new alternator.  Is it new or rebuilt? It could be a bad alternate. Try turning on the key but not starting engine. Then flip the salesman switch, see if it blows the breaker then.

Herman

 

:wub:(started and didn't finish)

Edited by hermanmullins

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It sounds as though the salesman switch may have been somehow gotten wired into the AC wiring causing 12 volts to be thrown into the AC current which will look like an almost dead short to the AC circuit. I can't imagine why the salesman switch got messed with unless it was unhooked to prevent any backflow to the alternator during the alternator change, and possibly got hooked up wrong.

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Don't you hate when somebody breaks something and you have to figure out what he did?   

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Especially when "he" forgets or won't owe up to it....more $$$, I might remember!

Edited by manholt

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