GM Needs Your Feedback On Dinghy Towing (4 Wheels Down)

[mcbrian]

Hi Nick, I was wondering if you could give us an idea of the impact of the data so far.

[oregonbrewski]

1. How many miles do you typically dinghy tow your vehicle yearly? We have done as little as 1,000, and as much as cross-country, 7,000

2. What is the total tow mileage you have on your vehicle now? 20,200

3. What is the total tow mileage you expect to put on the vehicle before you upgrade to a new vehicle? Usually not mileage related... 10-year vehicle life

4. When towing, what is the average amount of time between stops? (be it restroom or fuel)? We like to switch drivers every 3 to 4 hours.

5. How often do you stop for a period of 10 min or more? (be it restroom, stretch, eat, fuel)? We usually keep our stops to a minimum of 30-minutes and multi-task (fuel up, eat, use the restroom, and run the tow vehicle)

6. What is your preferred cruising speed? Usually a top spped of 62.

7. Do you use a rock shield? No

8. Where does the rock shield mount (bumper,towbar,dinghy, or... so what type)? NA

[kenplatt]

My name is Nick. I work on the new 6T30/40/45/50 fwd 6 speeds at General Motors within transmission development. In particular, I'm in charge of validation for dinghy towing.

I'm after some feedback, regardless of vehicle make, about the vehicle you currently dinghy tow (or have towed in the past).

1. How many miles do you typically dinghy tow your vehicle yearly? 12,000

2. What is the total tow mileage you have on your vehicle now? 120,000

3. What is the total tow mileage you expect to put on the vehicle before you upgrade to a new vehicle? 130,000

4. When towing, what is the average amount of time between stops? (be it restroom or fuel)? 1-2 hours

5. How often do you stop for a period of 10 min or more? (be it restroom, stretch, eat, fuel)? Every 1-2 hours

6. What is your preferred cruising speed? 60 mph

7. Do you use a rock shield? No.

8. Where does the rock shield mount (bumper,towbar,dinghy, or... so what type)?

Your feedback would be greatly appreciated, which will help me better tune our internal testing requirements to better meet and exceed actual customer usage.

[gbconsta]

1. How many miles do you typically dinghy tow your
vehicle yearly? 10,000 – 15,000



2. What is the total tow mileage you have on your vehicle now? 10,000



3. What is the total tow mileage you expect to put on the vehicle before you
upgrade to a new vehicle? unk



4. When towing, what is the average amount of time between stops? (be it
restroom or fuel)? 45 mintues



5. How often do you stop for a period of 10 min or more? (be it restroom,
stretch, eat, fuel)? 3 - 4



6. What is your preferred cruising speed? 65 - 70



7. Do you use a rock shield? No



8. Where does the rock shield mount (bumper,towbar,dinghy, or... so what type)? N/A

Comment:
I bought a 2011 GMC Terrain because it can be towed 4 down. The only hassle is
the need to pull a fuse every time it is towed. The only complaint I have is the front of the
car sits very low and it tends to hang up on parking curbs.

[GM.Engineer]

I have a question: Is it necessary to remove the DLIS fuse for short towing trips 200-350 miles?

What affect would not removing the DLIS fuse have?

When you turn the key and put the ignition in the accessory position, it can drain the battery over time. Removing the DLIS fuse, when towing, removes the power to the BCM causing the ignition relay to open which stops the battery from going dead. Hard to say if in 200-350 miles the battery would drain the battery too much.

[GM.Engineer]

Hi Nick, I was wondering if you could give us an idea of the impact of the data so far.

I don't have much to share. The info I've seen so far, supports what I expected for answers. I'm highly confident that our testing standards ensure that we met and exceeded customer expectations with regards to transmission specific dinghy towing durability.

I've compiled some of the data. I'll have to revisit it, recompile and potentially post a plot of the info sometime in the future.

[mcbrian]

I don't have much to share. The info I've seen so far, supports what I expected for answers. I'm highly confident that our testing standards ensure that we met and exceeded customer expectations with regards to transmission specific dinghy towing durability.

I've compiled some of the data. I'll have to revisit it, recompile and potentially post a plot of the info sometime in the future.

Thanks for the reply. I expected that GM knew how we treated our toads. I was hoping to see GM allowing something like the Cruze to be towed. Hopefully, GM will design more options for the towing community.

[GM.Engineer]

Nick, been trying to get into a new GM truck since 2006 but not willing to buy one with less 'nice' features than the 2002 LT had. Each year more is cut from interior and in last couple of years (anything made after last half of 2010 cannot be dinghy towed) GM cut out dinghy tow. Email me with any 2002 2500HD LT ExtCab 4x4 loaded 6.6' bed excellent condition leads that have proper config to be dinghy towed since USA no longer makes loaded trucks that can be dinghy towed.

.

1. How many miles do you typically dinghy tow your vehicle yearly?

~7k starting in last few years, will be more each following year as leave is accrued, and subsequently hopefully full-time.

2. What is the total tow mileage you have on your vehicle now?

~35k

3. What is the total tow mileage you expect to put on the vehicle before you upgrade to a new vehicle?

300-foreverk since have no choice since USA loaded trucks are no longer made to dinghy tow and harder to find beds not shorter than 6.6.

Will probably by a 2014 King Ranch loaded and use this 2002 for dinghy since I cannot buy a new loaded GM truck on par with 2002 that can be dinghy towed. Plus in last decade the GM interior is void of storage, center console AC ducks to rear of cab gone which also made center console a cooler and allowed driver to control air for riders not capable to, manual knobs for nav, radio and such that GM 2002 and FORD has.

Right now I have some diesel used truck dealers searching for GM 2500's with dinghy tow transmittions with great facts and low mileage. Ideally something like this survey and free text should be sent to current early 2k model year owners to inquire why not getting new GM trucks. The RV camps and farm equipment lots used to be nearly all GM, but since mid 2000's our plea's to stop stripping features have been ignored resulting in seeing less and less GM's.

I put off buying a new GM over the years in order to wait for GM features to return like arm rests, large door storage can hold safety gear such as harnesses, goggles, welding gloves, kiddie fire ext. , leashes, large metal flashlights, and pliers all in deep wide wells that are not wind or bump affected, multiple interior roof storage bins, ebony interior colors for roof and pillars, black wheel fenders to protect paint from carts, tools, drawers, tie down straps, geez ... endless list of features now gone; but I'm stunned and shocked that dinghy tow was taken away while I was waiting for the standard features to return. Also, why in new trucks is the DEF under the hood instead of more accessible place next to gas pump inlet? I know, ranting, sorry ... our entire family has been loyal GM since 1950's and miffed this generation of the family is being forced into a FORD that cannot be dinghy towed either in order to spare wear on GM trucks that can be dinghy towed. Just in case someone actually cares, interiors with chrome trim, wood trim, etc. are too reflective/blinding and get too hot, look at the loaded 2002 truck, absolutely perfect, more perfect if it had the holes for cool air in the seats ... awh heck ... heat/cool air in rear seats too would be grand. My generation has the money and the most populous at present, and we're not fans of having to take eyes off road or stop on bumpy roads to use touch screen technology, offer both knobs as well as touch screen. Oh, Honda has the best and largest NAV screens ... hint hint.

4. When towing, what is the average amount of time between stops? (be it restroom or fuel)?

30 min just enough time to refuel and do safety checks

5. How often do you stop for a period of 10 min or more? (be it restroom, stretch, eat, fuel)?

2-3 hours depends on mpg, only stop to refuel RV/bus.

6. What is your preferred cruising speed?

70-75 empty highway, 55-65 or in tandum with other traffic in more congested areas.

7. Do you use a rock shield?

no

8. Where does the rock shield mount (bumper,towbar,dinghy, or... so what type)?

n/a, but if I did, would be on tow bar so could use for any vehicle towed.

So, I really don't want to drail the intent of this thread. However, I will very briefly comment.

Any of our RWD based trucks that have 2 spd tcases (which have a neutral state) are "supposed to be" dinghy towable. You bring to light, the lack of info out there on the 2500 series trucks in the owners manual. (1500/3500 series have sections in the owners manual specifying what models can be towed) I am working with the tcase and owners manual group on updating the information. I'd expect we would release a bulletin as a supplemental to the owners manuals (short term) with the additional info so dealers can share with customers who inquire. I will try to let you know when this happens. Please wait to do so, as this would be the documentation you require stating that a 2500 series is towable.

[enagemmd]

I just had a very disconcerting problem: I purchased a 2010 Yukon Denai Hybrid after reading the owners manual and FMCA towing guide to be certain that it can be dinghy-towed, but cannot get the steering to stay unlocked unless the key is in the ACC position (This results in a dead battery.) or the engine is left running (This provides too much braking, as the power brakes are activated.).

The worst of this is that when I sought service to fix the problem, I was notified of the service bulletin # PIT3673F. This states that only certain models do not have a column lock. There must be other owners out there in this situation.

I have mounted a base plate, brake lines, lighting, etc. to my vehicle that now cannot be towed as advertised.

[finhawk]

My name is Nick. I work on the new 6T30/40/45/50 fwd 6 speeds at General Motors within transmission development. In particular, I'm in charge of validation for dinghy towing.

I'm after some feedback, regardless of vehicle make, about the vehicle you currently dinghy tow (or have towed in the past).

1. How many miles do you typically dinghy tow your vehicle yearly? 20,000 plus

2. What is the total tow mileage you have on your vehicle now? 27,000

3. What is the total tow mileage you expect to put on the vehicle before you upgrade to a new vehicle? 100,000

4. When towing, what is the average amount of time between stops? (be it restroom or fuel)? 2 to 3 Hours

5. How often do you stop for a period of 10 min or more? (be it restroom, stretch, eat, fuel)? One

6. What is your preferred cruising speed? 60

7. Do you use a rock shield? Of Course

8. Where does the rock shield mount (bumper,towbar,dinghy, or... so what type)? Over the tow bar----It's the Tow Defender from Roadmaster

I tow a 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland with the Unified Brake Syatem from UCS Gear. Less than 5 minutes to set up and get on the road

Your feedback would be greatly appreciated, which will help me better tune our internal testing requirements to better meet and exceed actual customer usage.

[bizsmith@yahoo.com]

1)7000

2)108000 '03 CRV (odometer mileage which of course does not include towed mileage, towed mileage estimated to be additional 70000)

3)115000

4)2 hr

5)2 hr

6)60

7) yes

8)Roadmaster towbar

[wadcad]

1. 5,000 or more

2. 6,000

3. 40,000 to 60,000

4. Two to Three hours

5. Two to Three hours

6. 62 to 65 mph on Interstate, 50 to 55 on state highways

7. Yes

8. Screen from bottom of coach to under front bumper of car

[larry2]

Just traded a 2001 Jeep Wrangler [138,000 mi] for a Chevy Equinox because we can tow flat. I hope it works as well as the Jeep. Will tow about 12,000 a year. Want at least 100,000 before another trade. Stop about every two hrs. usually for 20/30 minutes. Cruising speed is typically 58/60, we are retired. We use a cover for the front of the car, from bumper to the top of the windshield. Thanks for taking an interest in the motorhome lifestyle. Larry

[paulcarson]

Bring back the Saturn Vue. That was a great dinghy.

[craigmorrison]

I tow between 2000 and 3000 miles per year

I have about 12000 towed miles to date

20000 miles estimated before getting a new car

We go 2 to 4 hours between stops

We stop 2 to 3 times per day

We cruise at about 65 mph

No rock shield, jeep wrangler unlimited rubicon

Hope this helps

[takshot]

1. How many miles do you typically dinghy tow your vehicle yearly? 5000

2. What is the total tow mileage you have on your vehicle now? 78,000

3. What is the total tow mileage you expect to put on the vehicle before you upgrade to a new vehicle? 90,000

4. When towing, what is the average amount of time between stops? (be it restroom or fuel)? 4 hours

5. How often do you stop for a period of 10 min or more? (be it restroom, stretch, eat, fuel)? twice a day

6. What is your preferred cruising speed 70

7. Do you use a rock shield? no,

8. Where does the rock shield mount (bumper,towbar,dinghy, or... so what type)?

[LeRoyCook]

1. How many miles do you typically dinghy tow your vehicle yearly?

4000

2. What is the total tow mileage you have on your vehicle now?

Purchased new -- Previous Toad was purchased used & had approx. 15000 towed miles in a 3 yr period.

3. What is the total tow mileage you expect to put on the vehicle before you upgrade to a new vehicle?

Will keep this vehicle for many years -- don't know how many towed miles

4. When towing, what is the average amount of time between stops? (be it restroom or fuel)?

Approx. 2 hrs, depending on location of rest stops or travel centers. I learned the hard (and expensive) way not to tow from AM to PM. I am the son of a former log truck driver and took the advice of a commercial OTR driver to frequently check my "rig" as many of them do.

5. How often do you stop for a period of 10 min or more? (be it restroom, stretch, eat, fuel)?

See #4, above -- at least 3 times on a 400 mile leg.

6. What is your preferred cruising speed?

I adhere to the posted speed limit for trucks -- 55 to 60 MPH

7. Do you use a rock shield? Yes

8. Where does the rock shield mount (bumper,towbar,dinghy, or... so what type)?

On the tow connection bar attached to the Toad. I have a Roadmaster All Terrain bar with a hard shield.

FYI -- I researched the approved vehicles to be flat towed and chose the Jeep Grand Cherokee because of the simplicity to prepare it to be flat towed. My previous Toad was a 2004 Jeep Liberty with an automatic transmission and a manual transfer case that was easily shifted into Neutral. I bought it used because my primary vehicle (2008 Toyota Highlander) could not be flat towed. Traded in both for the 2014 Grand Cherokee that is also my primary transportation. I would not buy a vehicle that had time/distance restrictions to be towed or required fuses to be pulled, drive line to be disconnected, or additional equipment to be installed for the vehicle to be flat towed. There are enough other procedures to be performed when leaving a camp site that I don't care to have a complicated towing procedure. I believe others agree with me because I see more Jeeps behind MHs on the road than any other vehicle. Simplicity sells.

[Bluebirds]

FWIW - 2013 was our first year towing behind 36 ft. Class A MH (toad was 2013 Ford C-Max) - so replies based upon "newbie".

1. 3,000 towing toad - 1st yr.

2. purchased new, so 3,000 tow miles that vehicle.

3. We hope to put 20,000 tow miles before changing dinghy vehicles; however, just traded C-Max for 2014 Jeep GC due to unreliability issues with C-Max ( owned C-Max 14 months sadly, Ford never able to resolve parasitic battery drains, wrecker tows multiple 12 v battery replacements, etc.)

4. We stop every 2 hr or so, stretch, restroom, gas.

5. Stops 10 min or more -- same as above, every 2 hr max, typical "total " miles/ day of 200-225 max, and 2-3 stops of 10 min in that day of driving. With C-Max, we would take time to 'run' the engine/recharge battery after 150 miles towing, it seemed to help avoid dead toad while towing.

6. DH very consistent cruise control on MH, set for 55 mph. C-Max had Owner Manual limit 65 mph, but we were 1st yr in Class A, and stayed 55 mph for 'newbie, and for 'best mpg' on MH.

7. Purchased BO KarShield (not sure exact name?) new, but did not use it this 1st yr. because so heavy to mount, and just one more thing to figure out as a newbie ;-) Definitely Planning to use rock shield in on the new Jeep GC though

8. BO KarShield mounts on tow bar.

As an aside, chose a 2014 Jeep GC as it is must also serve as our primary vehicle, and as posted above - we saw lots of other people chose a Jeep for flat towing. We wanted the comfort of full- size, without having the overhead of two vehicles and be able to flat tow. Also like that Jeep does not have limits on time (C-Max owner manual "says" run every 6 hrs, but experience and parasitic battery issues on C-Max meant 2-3 hr max between running engine while towing.). As a newbie, we need easy to understand, and simple steps to set car for flat towing ....less stressful with all the other things to remember getting on the way, and stopping at the end of the day. Biggest suggestion ... Make sure the owner manual is correct for "recreational towing 4- wheel down" steps.

[ckcarpenter42]

1. How many miles do you typically dinghy tow your vehicle yearly? 5,000

2. What is the total tow mileage you have on your vehicle now? 16,200

3. What is the total tow mileage you expect to put on the vehicle before you upgrade to a new vehicle? 100,000

4. When towing, what is the average amount of time between stops? (be it restroom or fuel)? two hours

5. How often do you stop for a period of 10 min or more? (be it restroom, stretch, eat, fuel)? 10-15 minutes

6. What is your preferred cruising speed? 3 miles under posted limit - seldom above 62 mph

7. Do you use a rock shield? Yes

8. Where does the rock shield mount (bumper,towbar,dinghy, or... so what type)? Towbar

[grunderwood@aol.com]

This is very important to me and I will make a decision on all future car purchases based on whether or not it can be towed 4-down.

1. 10,000 to 12,000 Miles

2. Current vehicle is a 2008 Chevy HHR - miles on odo = 75,000 Plus 65,000 towing miles

3. 150,000

4. 2 hr between stops

5. Try to cover no more than 300 miles per day then see above

6. 60 on 65 highway, 65 on 70 highway but 55 on 55 highway

7. No but do use a soft hood cover

8. N/a

Thanks

[wdcbus]

It's good to know that GM is taking an interest in our towing habits. I tow a 2007 chevy pickup 1500 crew cab 4 wheel drive.

I tow 6000 to 8000 miles a year

total miles on truck is 63000 miles

looking at the new GMC trucks for 2014

time between stops four hours

stop periods of 10 min to 30min

cruising speed between 60 and 70 mph

we use a rock shield

It is attached to the base plate.

[Walt2137]

1- 3 to 5 thousand

2- 2,500 miles

3- this will be our last toad

4- 2 to 3 hrs

5- 3 to 4 times a day

6- 60 mph

7- no

8- N/A

[maperry]

Nick,

I hope you are still with GM and working in this area. My concern is specifically with the new 2014 Silverado. I traded in a 2010 which was about as perfect a tow vehicle as I've found (short of a manual transmission).

My concern is that at the same time GM requires the battery negative terminal to be disconnected, the shove it clear up against the firewall, along the passengers sidewall and under the air conditioning inlet vent box. I tried to put a traditional knob type disconnect on and it would not clear the back and if you put it to the side, the hood pivot adn spring assemble short it out. Poor battery layout to require frequent disconnecting of the negative terminal.

[elkhartjim]

FYI...GM Engineer has not logged in since Nov, 2013.