Belthasar
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Posts posted by Belthasar
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On 11/20/2020 at 12:19 PM, kaypsmith said:Did the shop drop the tank to replace the internal fuel pump? If yes, they may have removed the pickup tube for the genny. I think that in an earlier post you stated that while back blowing the fuel connection that you heard gas gurgling.
They Did trop the tank, and im now wondering if I only heard fuel that was in the line bubbliing, but did not see anything dripping, so at that point I assumed it was bubbling in the tank, am looking more into it today. Tried to explore putting in a fuel pump access pane, but the pilot hole I drilled showed the grey water tank is above the fuel tank, so im left with dropping the gas tank again.
I did however make a good bit of progress in ripping out the 87 carpet and headliner for the front half of the vehicle though - and holy dog doodie, they must have had a sale on 1/4" staples!! I must have pulled over 200 just in the two step stairwell alone!!
Now that my back is killing me, I think ill try to drop the tank next week 😃 I did however exercise the generator a bit with external fuel tank, runs great on its own!
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On 11/19/2020 at 9:03 AM, jleamont said:There is no way to reach the top of the fuel tank from a wheel well or any other creative method?
If NO, I would try and give it a different fuel source and see how that goes (as mentioned above). My guess is the old fuel line deteriorated somewhere along the way and its either pulling air in or collapsing internally. One time I did see the sending unit on top of a fuel tank rust out, oddly it was only the line to the generator that had the excessive rust.
I fully expect it was just a mis-install at the shop as the genny was working great before the work on replacing the chassis internal tank pump. But advice well taken, I intend to completely re-run the generator fuel lines either way, am just having issues seeing how i can get beyond where the line runs through the frame (and connects to a hard line at that point) to verify the top of the tank connection is good.
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13 hours ago, wildebill308 said:The first thing I would do is get a small/2 1/2 gallon gascan and some fuel line. try running the generator off this fuel supply. This is also a good way to run something like carb cleaner at a high ratio without needing to treat the main tank. If it runs good then you can look at the supply lines going to the tank.
Bill
Generator runs great when it has fuel or using starter fluid. (Sorry, I forgot to mention I ruled out generator operability)
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16 hours ago, kaypsmith said:First of all, how much fuel is in the coach tank? The builder of most coaches sets the fuel pickup tube so that it will not pick below a quarter of a tank to insure that the generator does not drain the fuel tank to keep you from getting stranded. This may not be your problem, but make sure that you do have adequate fuel.
Yep, thought that may be it as it was close to the 1/4 tank level - so now I have freshly filled to the top tank - and of course now need to potentially drop it 😃
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Hey Again All - Need another helping nudge (or kick in the butt) from the "Gas Heads" on this thread....
The RV its running/driving great, but now the generator isn't getting fuel. After examination I am only left to think there is a crimp, or the mechanic did not reconnect things right on top of the tank.
I just replaced the fuel pump after checking for line continuity / integrity, but it appears this wasn't the true cause. (I was able to blow back through the fuel line to the gen, and heard bubbles, but in hind sight it may have just been bubbling from residual fuel in the line I heard.) Upon cranking, a small amount of fuel enters the filter, but does not draw enough to get to the engine - (bubbles can be seen in the quarter inch or so of fuel in the filter) while the pump is trying to get to the fuel.
Does anyone have any dimensions on where I should cut a hole in through the floor for any future work or repairs on this. Or has someone done this on a similar model who may be able to give me some guidance - I really dont want to take it back to the shop, and I am hoping to avoid dropping the tank if at all possible. Plus I would think it would be beneficial for any future troubleshooting and fuel pump replacement efforts.
My RV (Eagle-5) has (for now) the two twin beds and the center is wide open. I'm not worried about messing up the floor, as I am planning to strip all the carpet out anyways. May put an actual access panel in - but dont want to make the floor look like swiss cheese in the process with trial and error efforts.
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18 hours ago, hermanmullins said:With my experience with the older engines with a module in the distributer is that it works fine for a long time and then one day when you shut the engine off it will not restart.
To me it sounds like the engine is starving for fuel. The first thing I would do would be to install an external electric fuel pump and to mount it as close to the tank as possible. Most electric pumps do mush better pushing fuel rather the pulling it for long distances.
Also along the same line, has anyone thought about a slack timing chain? A 33 year old engine may just be worn by years and not miles.
There have been some very good suggestion may so far. (Lot of ole gas heads out there)
IMO
Herman
Much appreciate all the assistance, I was able take "eagle 5" on a test run last night after finding and replacing the fuel pump relay, we were able to hid ludicrous speed (figuratively) and was pulling well up hills and on WOT. Whole different vehicle! Vroom Vroom!
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19 hours ago, jleamont said:backfiring through the carburetor or exhaust?
How many miles on the engine?
Its backfiring through the carb... 29k orig on the engine.
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On 11/8/2020 at 4:28 AM, manholt said:I had a 1987 Bart, with a 454 full injection system. Biggest problem was lugging, back fire and fuel filters, I carried several in the bay! POS since the coach was custom ordered and built.
Very sorry to hear, did you ever get something to work with it reliably for your issues? How long did you mess with it / keep it? I must admit, my daughter wants a tiny house, and its tempting to just remodel and park it somewhere with utilities for her 😃 (Its MY RV, but if it cant do a long haul by next summer I will need to reconsider keeping it, as I plan on moving in a year or so - likely to the upper northeast US, and if it cant drive and put some distance on more than 20-30 minutes at a time with an hour break in-between, I sure as heck aint shipping it.)
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With all the findings today, and yet another short lived trip and subsequent tow ... I am thinking a bit out of the box (and into my day- off first scotch of the day so....)
I cant stop but think it may be a good idea to upgrade the engine a bit with something like a performance ignition system such as MSD, and upgrade the carburetor or heck even convert to fuel injected... Any thoughts? I am definitely NOT made of money, but at this rate my RV is looking more like a boat with the drivability issues, rather than me putting money into making the RV more updated and comfeeze for my usages. Am thinking that doubling down on just being done with chasing the gremlins and update a bunch of stuff may be called for. yeah, probably the scotch talking - but still...
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On 11/8/2020 at 11:11 AM, bm02tj said:It can be a lot of things
One thing to eliminate is induction on plug wires space them away for each other and if they cross try to have at 90 degs
worn advance in distributor failing pickup or module heat induced
If you know some one with a big block test with a borrowed distributor
good luck and let us know what you find
Good suggestions, I had not considered the routing, they do cross a bit - ill rectify that when i get it back. Will have to check on the advance.
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On 11/9/2020 at 6:51 PM, txiceman said:This engine is known to be rough on plug wires. They get old and leak and cause all sorts of missing and back firing issues. While it is dark, remove the engine cover and start the beast and observe the light show from leaking wires.
Replace the plug wires with the best high temperature wires you can find with ceramic boots. Be sure to use the silicon on the plug boots.
Ken
It has upgraded wires, with the heat shields, and ceramic boots now 😃. I at least was able to verify that part of my request to my mechanic was done!
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7 hours ago, dickandlois said:What year is your coach?
Does it have a throttle body Quadrajet carb or throttle body injector system ?
Have all the engine Vacuum lines been checked or replaced and how long ago where all the lines replaced?
When was the last time the distributor and ignition circuit been rebuilt?
This old thread might be some help.
Rich.
Thanks for the thread reference, this is carbureted (unknown make) but that's my next option up if all pans out with fuel system working. (prior owner did say the carb was replaced, but dont know by who - and hearing how these carbs are hard to setup right - well ill happy consider an alternative / upgrade if one arises.
it is pulling a vacuum, but I did not gauge it. (Need to get one). All vacuum lines "look" good from inspection from top down and bottom up, but Ill be getting a roll of vacuum tubing anyways just to start replacing them. The prior owner apparently did not follow through on any chassis work other than oil changes and fluid top offs, and was mostly focused on the RV portions.
Sorry, We had all components replaced with the "full" tune up, but I will triple check with my mechanic as they are now suspect a bit.
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On 11/8/2020 at 7:15 AM, kaypsmith said:I owned a 1987 Southwind many years ago with same problem. I wound up replacing the spark plug wires with a racing grade was the solution for mine. I went through several sets of those solid core sets for a temporary fix, after going with a very expensive set from a major racing supply here in Birmingham, the problem did not come back while I owned it two more years. Also be sure there are no vacuum leaks.
Rgr that on the vacuum leaks - im rebuilding my do-it-yerselfer tool kit roster, but do not have a vacuum gauge, compression testor just yet - its on da list.
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On 11/7/2020 at 11:46 PM, f442485 said:Just a few questions. Did you have the fuel pressure checked. When you say internal fuel pump was replaced, do you mean there is a pump in the tank or are you taking about the accelerator pump in the carb. If the carb was sitting for a long time and not ran the accel. pump will dry out and cause hesitations. if the accel. pump is not suppling enough fuel into the venturies, it will backfire back thru the carb. Does it backfire in the exhaust? If I am not mistaken it has an ignition module and pick up coil (stator) in the distributor that can cause this issue if backfire is in the carb. Did your mechanic check to see how many degrees of slop is in the timing chain? Just a a few things to know before trying to help diagnose your problem. If the fuel pump is in the tank you would probably are talking about the throttle body. It kind of looks like a carb., but has two fuel injectors on top. you can PM me and ill give you my phone number and i can walk you thru what you need to check.
Hey Thanks!
I went out today to try and swap out the fuel pump relay - but before I get into that ill try to answer your questions...
- Unknown on the fuel pressure check, I had hoped my mechanic checked it, but it seems he had a Jr tech working on it... (see below)
- Yes, it has been backfiring up through the carb.
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The Fuel pump I referred to that was replaced, was in the tank.
- My model does not have an external / rear mounted aux pump that I could find.
- Upon crawling under to check for the fuel relay and just to check the previous work, I discovered multiple pinched wires between the tank and the frame. (Its waiting on a tow to go back to the shop to drop the tank, inspect the wires for damage, replace, then check voltage on the fuel pump and ensure it runs and to check fuel pressure)
- I will ask about timing check, but after initially starting and getting up to temp - the thing runs like a champ but seems underpowered, only when I get to WOT or after its fully warmed up (and 30+) minutes away from anything will it start hesitating, backfiring and eventually coming to a crawl. (25mph max)
My current thoughts (other than the shop screwup with the wires) are that the "new" fuel pump was not properly checked for operation after install - I am pretty certain after my recent conversation with the shop owner, the Jr tech likely just started it up and called it a day. (I am of the understanding - please correct if wrong - that these can run at idle and little to no load with the mechanical pump on the engine, but under load especially when warmed it will be starved for fuel, which so far matches my experiences to date)
Also of note - I am leaning towards thinking the in-tank pump may not have ever worked while in my possession as per the info I found during my own inspection and investigation today. I could not find any fuel pump relay in any of the obvious locations for the P30 chassis of my year, but I do have a panel in the front engine compartment that has a port for fuel pump, with nothing in it, but appears to be wired.
Fun times, the journey continues (Right now at 20 mph up the slightest incline, or with the help of a tow winch which may be faster still)
Photo below of location of obviously missing fuel pump relay, if there is one in another location I have not yet traced it down. (Not in the upper left doghouse - from inside, not under / on the wheel wells either side, and nothing obvious in front except for the missing one below)
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UPDATE to the update... 11/13 - Took it on a test drive last night after visiting my mechanic to check on progress and the work to date... issue is resolved, we were able to swap out the relay, and verify power then VROOM! Ludicrous speed! (55-65+ UPHILL Even!!) Thanks all for the great advice! I have a nice list of things to follow up on to hopefully get ahead of any future issues!
After our short adventure yesterday, and yet another tow after spending almost an hour crawling up slight hills doing 20 with traffic flying up my butt doing 90, only to get a 5th of the way to the shop, my mechanic and I have been in touch. The owner rectified the poorly installed fuel tank, and in his investigation he found there was zero way that fuel pump ever worked (old or new one) as the fuel pump relay had fallen into the doghouse, and was dangling by its wires and on closer inspection it was totally gummed up and corroded and absolutely failed (Attached). (Id hate to be his tech who said he confirmed operation of said new pump that likely wasn't needed after install.)
Awaiting update that installation of the new relay got the in take fuel pump working,...
On another fun finding note - he sent me pics of this custom wiring job (also attached) that I did not see when I was poking around - a rats nest is more organized... so now onto trying to find wiring diagrams so I can eventually dismantle the spaghetti mess and get things looking n working right. Why oh why do people do this to vehicles, I get it for if your stuck on the road for a quick fix but jeeze!
Hey All,
First time posting. My mechanic and I are scratching our collective heads on an issue my new-to-me rv is having and I thought I would reach out to the collective wisdom here. I have read a number of posts and suggestions relating to similar sounding issues but wanted to get this (and some history) in front of the group.
I bought this vehicle about 3 months ago, and it has largely been in the shop since for general chassis maintenance and some repairs but things keep popping up. The issue I am currently chasing down is a frustrating one - the vehicle runs fine after initially warming up, accelerates on WOT just fine, gets down the road nicely. After approximately 30 minutes of easy travel, the engine starts hesitating on heavy throttle, then will begin backfiring and near stalling out under load - "load" being going uphill slightly or trying to speed up. If I stop on the side of the road for 20-30 minutes I can make it another 15 minutes or so with very light throttle use. If it sits overnight, all the above can be repeated. When I first drove it home, It did initially overheat but was not operated in that condition so im fairly confident the head / block isn't cracked.
What has been done so far -
Full Tune up - Plugs, High end solid core wires, coil, dist. cap, rotor, timing checked.
Radiator pulled - one of the cores was shot so the radiator was rebuilt, new water pump, new hoses. (After buying it, my mechanic informed me that it didnt have a fan cowling, so after two months of hunting one down, it now runs nice and cool)
Gas tank pulled, (No signs of trash in the tank) internal fuel pump replaced, fuel filters replaced.
The prior owner did tell me that he had the carburetor replaced, so for me at least I suspect that it may not be setup correctly - (but until some time of steady use, it runs fine? - I would suspect a bad carb setup would always run bad?) Am willing to entertain a replacement with an upgrade if one is available.
I am about to go pick it up from where I dropped it off last night in frustration - but intend to run it tonight with the doghouse off to check for any grounding / sparking issues.
Are there any other obvious things I should be looking at?
Thanks in advance!
87 Fleetwood Pace-Arrow Chevy P30 Chassis w/454, Hesitation, Backfiring and stalling oh my.
in Chassis
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Yay me! new life experiences, right?? I may just hold a bit until the back and forth from the storage yard to the house during this remodel gets it runnning on fumes. Perhaps a bit of uphill WOT can drain it faster right? 😃