elizabethmeyer

Thanks for the replies. Coach is a 2015 Tiffin RED 33aa. 35 feet long, 13 feet high, 31k pounds fully loaded with full fuel, propane, fresh water and toad. Wife is getting the Truckers Atlas. Not sure what else we'll get, have to look up the suggestions posted. Does anybody just wing it? I was just talking to a buddy of mine a few minutes ago who has traveled 150,000 miles in a 34 foot Class A and he says he has never used anything other than paper maps and now Google maps. Just asking, not suggesting it. Wife is a cautious soul so it would never happen anyway. Personally we would like to just use our phones and not screw with the Kenwood. Mostly because it is slow and hard to access for my wife since it is the driver's cockpit and angled towards the driver with no ability to swivel it towards her. To see it, she has to unbelt and kneel in front of the stupid thing. Mark

Our Kenwood is in the shop for the next few months getting repaired. Yep, the next few months waiting for a part. Crazy. The problem is we are leaving for a month long trip from Chicago to Texas and we don't have an alternative for bridge clearance - our main concern. We both have Google Maps on our phones and use that app frequently in concert with the Kenwood. Any apps available to add on to Google Maps? We really don't want to buy a stand alone GPS since our Kenwood is coming back to us some day but I'm not going to cheap out and not buy something only to end up with many thousands and thousands of of dollars in roof repairs as I scrape off the top foot or so of my coach😁 Mark (aka Elizabeth the actual forum member and my wife)

Here is a another update. Cummins Level 3 was supposed to meet me at the Cummins dealer on Tuesday but the stupid coach would not flip into "not working/derate" mode. Drove around my neighborhood for almost two hours, stopping, starting, driving, stopping, starting, driving. Must have cycled that thing 60 times and couldn't get it to flip. Called the dealer and let him know that I would continue to try. The Level 3 guy was already there. About 5 minutes later I got a call from the guy and he said he wanted to change plans. Instead of having me come down he was going to requisition a recording device to capture what was happening and he would call me and come to my house to install as soon as he got hold of one. Even more importantly he was already in discussion with their Systems Integration team, the guys who work directly with the other vendors to make all this stuff work together. They are going to work with him to find out who is not sending or receiving the signals properly and get the vendors' systems working together and keep me out of the finger pointing that has been going on for over a year. In other words, own the problem. HALLELUJAH. Haven't heard back yet but I'll be following up on the 26th if I haven't heard by then. Betsy and I are leaving for a month long trip to Texas so I'll have plenty of opportunity to demonstrate the "not working/derate" mode to his new recording gadget. I did ask him why the first gadget didn't capture what he needed and he responded that it had some glitches and the Systems Integration team also wanted something different than what the first device was capable of. Stay tuned!

Coach has 15K and I've put on 10K of that. If the problem is mousies, they got it before I purchased it because this problem has always been there for me. Loves to eat them mousies, mousies what I loves to eat, bite they little heads off, nibbles on they little feets. (B. Kliban - 1975)

Well, a little update albeit without much data. Went down to the dealer Wednesday and drove around with the interactive device plugged in and sending real time data to the Level 3 tech. He had them replace the manifold pressure sensor (I think?) and we repeated the tests in both modes "Working" (Power) and "Not Working" (Derate) with no change. Now the Level 3 tech is coming to the dealer on Tuesday just to see me. I am now the guy you never want to be. The guy who has a problem that is stumping everyone. Yay! This will be the third time I will be going down. A couple of good things. One, I have been able to arrive with it in "Not working (Derate)" mode both times. The first time it took me running around the neighborhood like an idiot and cycling the key 30 times before I could get it into "Not working (Derate)" mode. (Stop, neutral, key off, key on, drive, hit 26 mph, downshift working - CRAP, repeat 30 times till it WON'T downshift.) Wednesday it started out in "Not working (Derate)" mode. I was also able to get it from Derate to Power mode and back to Derate mode after 6 or seven tries for each flip down at the dealer. It does appear that everybody is leaning towards the engine as the culprit for not making power when it should but nobody has identified the cause yet. It also seems that warranty will cover at least the parts and I'm hoping the labor because I'm burning a fair amount of tech time. Now we have 4 new parts: ECM, TCM, TPS and the pressure sensor. I am providing them with the info from you guys but I'm not sure it is registering. Mark

The "working" mode and "not working" mode are my terms. I use them simply because they are easy to understand. Everything works or it doesn't. I think the tech used the terms "power" mode and "derated" mode. Those may be more accurate but what the **** do they mean to the average guy? Also, not in an over rev mode. Actually it is under revving. This has been one of the points of contention between Cummins and Allsion. Allison is saying they are dong what the engine is telling them to do - partial throttle so no downshift required. Cummins is saying they are responding to a call to derate the engine. This is where I get so frustrated because they each wash their hands of it rather than trying to find out exactly what is causing this miscommunication. in the systems. The good news is that during this last go around Cummins is starting to acknowledge, or at least consider, that they may not be making power. It helped immensely that the Cummins shop manager worked with the Allison tech in the near past and stated that if Darren (the Allison tech) said it wasn't an Allison problem then it wasn't an Allison problem. Herman, unit is 100% stock. Rich, nobody has run that test. Mark (aka Elizabeth - my wife and the actual FMCA member)

Rich. Thanks for the continued responses. I have a 2500 Allison. I''l share your thoughts with the tech when I am down there on Tuesday. The only thing that will cause my issue to cycle from "working" to "not working" is turning the key off/on and shifting from Drive to Neutral and back to Drive after starting. However, cycling the key won't always flip it from one mode to the other. Taking it down last Thursday I had to cycle the key 30 times (cycle, drive, cycle, drive, etc.) before it switched from "working" to "Not working". Once I got down to Cummins, and we finished the "not working" data gathering, it took me just a couple of times to cycle it back to "working". Does that seem more likely to be a wire issue or a sticking electrical device (whatever that might be)? They were talking about some sensor or device that "sweeps" when you turn the ignition on and were speculating if that might be the issue. Above my technical pay grade. Mark

Well, the PITA process continues but with some hope too. First the whining. Tiffin has basically, and in a very nice way, opted out of the diagnostic process. Their advice is to take it to Cummins or Freightliner. The problem with that is I know what the responses will be because I''ve been there done that. Everybody points to everybody else and the financial bleeding goes on with no progress. My hope was that Tiffin would own the problem because of their influence with their vendors. I was looking for leverage not necessarily financial assistance. They did to a degree but when the initial effort failed that was pretty much it. Then, I got excited with Level 2 at Cummins because they seemed very interested and told me that they often solved others problems. Great. Got an appointment scheduled at Cummins in Hodgkins Illinois and contacted Level 2 to make sure Hodgkins had any and all background data from the two techs who worked on it down in Red Bay. Crickets. Get down to Hodgkins and, surprise, surprise, "nothing wrong on our end you need to take it to a great Allison shop in Grand Rapids, Mi." NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Now some good news. I call Cummins Level 2 and BEG him to help get this solved. Told him my experience with Hodgkins was exactly what I expected and without his involvement I was going to get exactly nowhere. So he calls Hodgkins and calls me back. I'm to go back to Hodgkins the next day (yesterday) and they have been told what data to capture for Level 3. I also provided some additional information that when the trans wouldn't downshift at full throttle, the turbo boost was also low - never above 20 - psi. (Didn't even know I had a turbo boost gauge. Why didn't the Cummins tech at Red Bay notice that?????) So I get down there, we do the test trips, they gather the data and the tech starts acknowledging that Cummins has problems with turbos, turbo actuators, etc. that could cause low boost and yet throw no codes but causing the transmission to see no power and therefore no downshift request. FINALLY SOME CRITICAL THINKING TAKING PLACE. So now I am going back next Tuesday to do some more trips with an interactive CAN bus tool so that Level 3 can see what is happening in real time from wherever they are located. No idea what the costs are going to be but it sounds like the parts are under warranty. Don't know about the labor. It would be helpful if anybody who knows the warranty with certainty wouldn't mind chiming in. Keeping my fingers crossed. Mark

Philc, We looked at the Forza - nice coach. I did get this programming change done when I bought the coach (used) about a year and a half ago. Mark

Rich, I don't have a clue. I forwarded your earlier response to Gary Harris at Tiffin and he noted that he had been thinking along those lines too. I'm forwarding him this email too. I spoke with Cummins today (trying to get warranty information) and ended up talking to a guy who seemed very interested in the problem and mentioned a Level 3 group that works on odd issues like this when the field tech and second level support get stymied. He is going to contact the field rep to see if he pulled data from the system when I was down in Red Bay. He wants to ship that data to the mysterious Level 3 group. My note of caution to him was that I was interested but I need somebody to own the problem and coordinate with the other vendors because it doesn't do me any good to have them go "no problem on our side. Been there, done that, cut the large check. Coordinating with the vendors was why I ended up in Red Bay. Gary Harris made that happen. Mark

I appreciate the thought, and no, they haven't. That said, it full throttle downshifts fine in "working" mode which it wouldn't do if it was geared incorrectly. It would have the lack of full throttle downshift all the time, right?

Manholt, Both the Cummins tech and the Allison tech have plugged in. Multiple times. Cummins shows 100% response to TPS full throttle request in "working" and "not working" modes. Allison shows 100% in "working mode but only a partial throttle request in "not working" mode. What the Allison computers shows in "not working" mode is what I term a rolling throttle response. Meaning, that when I have the pedal to the floor, instead of seeing 100%, Allison sees a request for 40% that then rolls up to 90% or even 100%. It doesn't always hit 100% often pegging around 94% throttle request. Mark

Rich, It doesn't matter whether it is cold or warm and it also doesn't seem to matter if you stop and cycle immediately or wait for 5-15 minutes to cycle. I've tested this many times. I'm sort of feeling that it cycles more readily from "not working" to "working" but I don't have any hard evidence to support that.

I'm having a VERY strange problem with my 2015 Tiffin with a 2500 Allison coupled to a 340 ISB Cummins. The problem is related to a full throttle downshift issue or lack thereof. The weirdness is that the transmission seems to have a "working" mode and a "not working" mode. When it is working I can do a full throttle request at 50 MPH on a flat road and it will downshift. Every time. When it is in "not working" mode, at the same speed on the same road, it will not downshift. Every time. The really weird part is that what triggers the flip from "working" to "not working" is stopping and turning the ignition key off and back on. Once it is in "working" or "not working" mode it will stay in that mode until you cycle the ignition again. I have driven hundreds of miles in both modes and I know for a fact it will stay in either mode. I know none of this makes sense but I was down at Red Bay for 2 days last week with this issue and I demonstrated it to a Cummins tech and an Allision tech who were down there just for this issue. They agreed cycling the key was causing the problem but they had never seen it before and everything they tried to do failed. To date the ECM, TCM and TPS have been replaced. The techs are going to regroup with Gary Harris from Tiffin for next steps but everyone is completely puzzled. Gary Harris does not think it is a wiring issue either which leaves Freightliner out of the dance. If it is in "not working" mode it will still manually downshift via the key pad and pulls strong. Cruse control also downshifts in "working" and "not working" mode. One other oddity is that while cycling the ignition is the only thing that will flip it from one mode to the other, cycling will not always flip it. Sometimes it will flip modes with a single cycle and other times it can take dozens of ignition cycling to get it to flip. Cummins says they are reading and sending 100% throttle even in "not working" mode while Allison sees 100% throttle only in "working" mode and a partial throttle request in "not working" mode Gary Harris and the two techs were non-believers until I demonstrated this repeatedly to them. The problem occurs for all full throttle downshift requests at any speed. I've tested this often enough that I know the exact downshift ranges for each gear so I know when it should execute a downshift. Yesterday was a great example of the problem. We left our camp site and the coach wouldn't do a full throttle downshift. Pulled over, cycled the key off and on and it full throttle downshifted fine until we stopped to refuel. Left the gas station and it wouldn't downshift. Pulled over, cycled the key and the full throttle downshift worked fine until we stopped for lunch and we had to repeat the process. Today it worked right out of the gate when I took it from my house to storage. These are typical experiences for me. 12,000 miles on coach and I've put on 8,000 of those. Any thoughts that I can share with Tiffin and the 2 techs? Mark (using my wife's account)