jeff753

But I'm not a Luddite either;). Have a good New Year Carl.

Who would recommend against the inclusion, to replace the current exclusion, of dues paying members? Who would recommend against members having an equal voice in the governance of OUR Association? Who would recommend against all dues paying members having a vote for elected officers of our Association? And why would they? We are all FMCA members. Maybe I'm missing it but I don't see inclusion as a problem but rather a solution. The FMCA is required to have a Strategic Plan. The current strategic plan recognizes fewer and fewer members belong to chapters (section C) and directed the Long Range Planning Committee to review the Goverance and adapt for the future (section F). That is the work before us. Let us begin that work of inclusion. https://www.fmca.com/images/stories/pdf/strategicplan.pdf

The comment about Jim wanting it mailed (Jim and I knew better since it was our exchange) was meant as a joke by Herman. Obviously mail wouldn't be received by Jan 1....Thus the smiley faces. Jim asked me for something and I responded with it. Everyone knew mailing was not an option to get them in by Jan 1 and Penny had set up the electronic process.

We have submitted well over the required signatures to put all three proposals on the Agenda for Gillette. Thank you everyone for the support!! After the new year we will set up threads to continue the discussions. Everyone benefits from inclusion!!!

Here you go ENERGIZED_Proposals.pdf

The three ENERGIZED proposals are attached ENERGIZED_Proposals.pdf

Thanks and Will do. We have plenty of volunteers on the Energized/u60 Facebook group too but obviously the more signatory’s we have the better.

If a dues paying member is in more than one chapter they have one delegate (National Director) voting for each chapter. These multiple delegates vote on issues at the annual conventions and vote for national officers. If a dues paying member is not in a chapter they get no votes.

The accounting firm has the yays nays duplicate votes and voided votes. We have member numbers for chapters yes? So we have the data and I got a gift card with mr smitty on it that says 90% is spot on;). It doesn’t matter if it’s 90% or not though. The issue is 30% of the membership has a vote and some have 5 votes while others none. If that ain’t broken I don’t know what is. Regardjess the gift card is yours at Perry for a job well done. It’s your’s Chris because you were not afraid to take the helm 40’ from the iceberg. Your new teams may very well save the Association. Let’s spend our energy addressing the issue of 70% of the membership do not belong to a Chapter nor do they get to vote for elections of our Association nor are they represented at Our Annual Conventions.... The rest is in my mirror and I can’t hit it;)

Brett he needs a warning flag;) Mr Holt Since the “electronic voting option” is a different issue than “one membership=one vote” we started a separate thread. ps we are not your enemy here. We are trying to help.

Will do. Thank you.

Perfect. Thank you Penny. Have a nice weekend!

That is, in part, why I brought this up. The vast majority of the U60 group do not belong to chapters and therefore they cannot conduct the business of the association nor vote for National Officers. This should change.

Looking for comments on this Proposed Change to FMCA's Goverance "Whereas the Governance of the Association is of utmost importance, whereas all methods of secure voting that encourage the casting of ballots are appropriate, therefor be it resolved all members shall be allowed to submit their ballot via secure paper ballot or a secure electronic method." How does a member submit a proposed change? What are the Timelines?

--A Membership sits at approx. 75,000. If the figures thrown around that only 30% (22,500) are members of chapters while 70% (52,500) ----are not chapter members then why with 3 months of Notices in the Magazine and on the website only a little over 11,000 took the time ---to vote. Does that show you how folks care about what happens. i don't view it as people don't care....I don't think the majority was even aware. If a member typically doesn't read the magazine they would not know. If a member doesn't attend rallys (only an average of 3% do) they would not know. If a member doesn't log on and review FMCA.com they would not know. Unless this member was also in a chapter. One solution would be to design a new structure where all members were treated as if they were in a chapter. Give them the same info, same voice and same vote. Why wouldn't we want to do that? Is it our responsibility to deliver the information to the membership or is it the members responsibility to try to find it? It's all about structure and the question of "are we here because of the membership or is the membership here because of us" Every business or Association I've ever consulted with, that didn't answer this question correctly, either failed or is failing

My point was the FMCA communication structure is geared towards chapters. There is a department dedicated to Chapter Services. Chapters have rallys and business meetings to discuss and vote in mass. Non chapters DO NOT have the "same chance" because they do not get the information fed to them the same way...they would have to find it on FMCA.com or in the magazine. That's not anyone's fault it's just the current state. Non Chapter Members cannot vote at business meetings or for candidates in elections and do not have representation for these events. Now we could do nothing and just say you have to form a chapter and have rallys, meetings, minutes, bylaws etc. It appears that Model is in severe decline....or we could try to do something to allow all members the same opportunity for information, the same voice and the same vote.

Only 12% voted because of the current structure of Goverance. The current structure provides information to chapters and chapters have rallys with meetings and discuss and vote or empower their representative to vote. It works well for chapters and doesn't need to change. Joe/Jane non chapter member are not fed information the same way. That is why 90% of the trailer votes came from the same members who put it in the agenda...chapter members. They are in the loop by design. They had rallys and sent dozens of ballots in one envelope. Goverance is geared towards chapters and those that belong to them. That seems like it will have to change if the trends continue and less and less members belong to chapters and more chapters fold. How many chapters have been created in the last 10 years? How many have folded? Is the Chapter model still the best method of inclusion? Why are members not joining and/or creating chapters? What are the benefits of a chapter compared to a group of friends? What are the disincentives of a chapter? Only 271 National Directors voted at the last convention representing their 271 Chapters. With the average chapter of 40 people that's 10,840 people who's views were represented at the last convention out of 76,000 members. Only 271 votes (chapters only) were cast for any business in front of the Association including the election of officers. Joe/Jane member don't even know who is running. I'm not anti chapter I think they're great...they just don't represent the membership anymore. Can we do something to include all dues paying members? I think we can and should. The Areas are already broken down by state or sub area so the structure for a more inclusive representation of the Association exist. it is interesting to note----- the only ones who can change it are the chapters:) <---- another smiley face

Good point;)!

Really. That’s the feedback you offer. My point is the chapter model doesn’t represent the membership anymore. That’s not divisive it just is. How many chapters have been started in the last 10 years? 20 years? The chapters I’ve gone to were very clickish having groups inside the group. They were also an average age of 77 or so. No offense intended it’s just what it is. Those chapters grew up together. The chapters are the only ones who vote for our leadership and who can send votes to the entire membership. With 30% of the membership belonging to chapters it’s not representative of the younger crowd who don’t have many chapters to join. One answer is do nothing. Another answer is to do something. That’s all.

In my past experiences I’ve worked with conventions that had 500 delegates. Each representing a different number of members. Most business was done via voice vote unless a delegate made a motion for a roll call vote. And yes I realize the current structure (chapter national directors) are the only ones who can make this change. They might because it’s the right thing to do.

The goal is all memberships are entitled to one vote. All else is implementation of that. Still needs to be determined though.

Looking for comments on this Proposed Change to FMCA's Goverance Whereas only 30% of FMCA members belong to a chapter, Whereas the National Directors of Chapters do not represent non chapter members, whereas all members deserve representation in the Governance of the Association, Therefore be it resolved the Governing Board of FMCA shall be comprised of delegates from each region representing an EQUAL SHARE of that regions voting members. Each delegate may represent UP TO 300 voting members. Delegates will be elected or appointed by each geographic region. and a change to voting Whereas the Governance of the Association is of utmost importance, whereas all methods of secure voting that encourage the casting of ballots are appropriate, therefor be it resolved all membership balloting shall be via secure paper ballot or a secure electronic method.

So 8% of the membership controlled the outcome. I’m thinking of writing a proposal to change the governing board member to represent “one member one vote” regardless of how many chapters a member belongs to, if any. It would be interesting to see how many votes were cast by non chapter members Chapter members had more likely good of being aware of the pending change For example each region would elect up to 50 delegates. Each delegate would carry their percentage of votes of the entire region. Currently over 70% and growing do not belong to a chapter and thus have no governing board representation. It’s not anybody’s fault it’s just where we are today. We also need to be able to vote via ballot or electronic means.

Not having read what you are referring ----to I would surmise the 20 votes you reference are National Directors not FNumbers. And then only during the annual convention.

Couple comments. I hear FMCA needs to get younger. Let's say that's true. We have actually gotten younger. 15 of us under 60 types met at a bar a couple nights at the Madison Rally and had pizza and talked in great detail of our lack of enthusiasm for the rally. Everyone thought it was not a good cost vs value and was it was generally boring and we were all going to quit coming to rallies because the people and entertainment were one or two generations ahead of us. It's the general nature of Motorhome drivers. These 15 under 60s became the Under60 Task Force Steering Committee and set a goal to try to make Rallys fun for our demographic too. At the next rally (Perry) we changed the name to FMCA ENERGIZED and implemented two tracks of fun. Energized activities for all ages by inviting all to things like Paint n Sip, DOGZ on Tour, ENERGIZED KIDZ Meet n Greet, Happy Hours etc. In addition we organized secret missions on pub cycles, bike trips, wine tours and brewery tours with the generally under 60 group and their guest. This Steering Committee continued to promote Rally Wide (regardless of age) ENERGIZED events at Springfield, Chandler and Indy. At Indy we added the rally long ENERGIZED KIDZ ZONE and MITO provided free wifi for this covered Pavillion. We had 62 KIDZ. Mac the Fire Guy dud a KIDZ Fire Safty class too. KIDZ camped out in tents and it was a very large success. KIDZ who had normally been drug to the rally by their parents were asking to go to the next one. It was reminiscent of what the 70s must have been like with FMCA. Recently we did two weeks of charitable builds in Lewisburg WV under the ENERGIZED Brand 44 people who had never met each other Most had never done something like that. 100% had a ball and are already planning our next great adventure. it's a snowball going downhill. All this was done with the full and continuing support of Chris Smith Executive Director and Doug Uhlenbach Events Manager. They see what needs to happen and go out of their way to help pull it off. Now the second issue and one Chris nor Doug can solve for us. What's your f number? When did you join? What's the last F number we just issued? What happened to the 10s of thousands of members since you joined? In addition, RVIA reports: "RV shipments for May top 40,000 for the third straight month, staying on record pace". Towables are up by 19.8% over 2016 but motorhomes were up 27.5% at 6,163. So how many of those 6,163 May 2017 motorhome shipment buyers have heard about FMCA yet?If we aren't asking eligible members to join then increasing the pool will not fix the perceived problem. What happened to those 10s of thousands of Losses since you joined and not reaching 6000 May shipment owners are issues for the Membership Committee to work These issues are not a result of us being a Motorhome club they are a result of a loss of interest or a lack of knowledge of FMCA and adding trailers will not help resolve these underlying causes. Another issue that needs to be addressed is representation of your membership. 70% of members do not belong to Chapters. Chapters are generally older established chapters and have a very high average age. It's not younger people "arn't joiners" as we've heard it's they are not interested in these older chapters. I think 10 new chapters have been created in the past 10 years. Most date to the 70s. Only National Directors (of chapters) conduct the business of the association at Conventions and most chapters are well above the mean age demographic. Are Chapters still a relevant approach for FMCA? That's an issue for the Long Range Planning Committee to work. Based on how many new chapters we've grown and only 30% of members actually belong to one it would seem it is not a good approach. How do 50,000 (the majority of the youngsters) unrepresnted members get to vote at conventions? The benefits are getting better (thanks to Chris Smith and his team) and the rallies are getting much better (thanks to the energy of Doug U and his team) but these other issues persist Us youngsters WILL become FMCA regardless of the trailer initiative. It's time for us to begin to take steps to get things on the convention floor. Can't do that under the current chapter structure. How about one number one vote and do away with national directors? Regions would send delegates that represent x votes each. Chapter membership not required. Not saying we shouldn't or cannot have Chapters. It now appears FMCA will leave the 70-120k motor home club behind and become a benefit based club of 200-300k Rvers focused on benefits not rallys Direct competition with Good SAMs. ESCAPEES and the vast other clubs will absorb the Rallys and educational aspects of RVing And to ensure I stayed on topic I voted no;) Stepping off the box now