smithy
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Posts posted by smithy
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4 hours ago, RAYIN said:On Oct 5 Smithy said: " This is not the only solution. Just one that was presented. "
Didn’t mean to inisnuate we have other fully thought out plans. It was a generic statement. Again pointing to the financials, the current level of benefits and services would have to be modified. Revenue is not keeping up with those costs.
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16 hours ago, Isaaac1 said:Smithy, it is great to see you participating here, and I do hope you continue to communicate with all of us even after the vote is over.
As I have stated previously I am against allowing towables full membership as I feel it would take the focus off of motorhomes.
Having said that, if this vote fails, are there and new plans and initiatives in place to try to recruit more / younger members?
Or is the attitude one of throwing in the towel and going down with the ship if this vote fails?
We have many member benefits that are all coming to fruition at the same time. Many of them will be very attractive to younger potential members. Stay tuned. Throwing in the towel isn’t even a thought that has crossed my mind or the executive board’s mind.
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15 hours ago, BillAdams said:I don't believe that is correct. There are "unlimited" Government contracts available from Verizon. Not sure how FMCA would qualify for one of these. If you know the details of how they could have such a contract and believe they could resell it to others, please give us the details.
Since FMCA is a non profit, we qualify for government accounts with Verizon.
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20 minutes ago, BillAdams said:You can use me as a scape goat but I never said anything about reselling a governmnet contract. You say "no one at Verizon caught this until it was already being offered". Verizon did not catch what? You have offered NO explanation so it's not even the beginning of the story, much less the end.
I am sure there was a lucid thought in there when you typed this but I am not sure what you are trying to say.
It is a fact sir. Verizon agreed to let us sell our government contracts to our members. Problem is you can’t resell government contracts, and Verizon somehow did not realize that until after they agreed and it was pushed live. No scapegoat. That is what happened. Beginning and end.
i didn’t say you provided that explanation. You did offer up many explanations in this and other threads that were inaccurate. FMCA did not violate any terms of the agreement. Verizon made an unfortunate mistake.
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1 hour ago, manholt said:Make that a total rollout, you don't need any more practice!
Absolutely!
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19 minutes ago, manholt said:smithy.
Your right, only mistake was the way the soft marketing was done! I heard of the new one and I'm waiting, not saying anything, and hoping you'll or FMCA will not make the "Soft" 1,000 mistake again!
Soft launch was done to make sure we were ready for the full launch. We learned from our mistakes, and it will be a much smoother rollout. Stay tuned.
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Be on the lookout for big news coming soon regarding this topic.
BillAdams- None of the speculation and conspiracy theories you posted in this thread are fact. You can't resell a government contract, and no one at Verizon caught this until it was already being offered. End of story. That is the explanation. Not that FMCA violated the agreement, were allowing people to take sign up that Verizon didn't approve of, etc. etc. etc.
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2 hours ago, manholt said:Please, no running tally!
Having been away from forum since Tuesday AM and reading all comments, including Brett, Smithy, etc and questions asked....I have to include this again, so there will not (I hope) be any miss understandings!
FMCA is a "Not for Profit Corporation". Money in/out = same. We who set policy and run FMCA are all volunteers! We do not get a salary for doing so! I'm on the GB as a National Director and I don't get my expenses re-imbursed for being at the Annual Summer Convention! The EB does. FMC is a "For Profit Corporation" and pays salaries. No body I know of is going to work for free every day!
Brett, not saying this because of friendship! I DO NOT WANT YOU JOB AS MODERATOR ! You're doing now and have in the past 6 years, done an excellent job of an impossible situation! Yes, I don't like to be deleted, or put on time out....why? I'm not PC!
Smithy, keep up the good work....Lord knows, it's got to be frustrating at times!
Dons2346. Time to cool it. You and I know, there is more to come after Elkhart...good luck !
Back to OP!
I will not be doing a running tally. Have no issue sharing total number of ballots sent in. As of today 4,049 have been received.
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Hello all- Just received a call from Mandel and Associates.
A member contacted them trying to push for the vote tally so far.
Please do not call them directly.
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2 hours ago, HayesFamily said:Let me apologize again for me the new guy, there are some things I don't no when it comes to the financials from past years. Earlier in this post way back around page 2 or 3 somewhere it was stated that we are not in financial dire distress or has that changed?
Weather FMCA is for-profit or nonprofit somebody is getting paid to do a job. 100% of our money is not going into a charitable cause or into our membership benefits, some of that money is allocated to salaries cuz that's just the way business works. So we can call it whatever kind of profit we want, the bottom line is there only two kinds of businesses in the world ones that are profitable and ones that are not. So somebody somewhere is making some money and trying to keep a job or if it wouldn't be a great humongous push to change the name and involve towables. If you don't agree with my statement that's fine we can agree to disagree.
As for chapter officers a greens of vote however their members tell them, unless the membership is going behind closed doors with them or is right there when they write it on the ballot and lick the stair nobody knows for sure. My point behind making a statement about the chapters has everything to do with the lack of participation from various chapters on our forums. Let me Give an example so you'll understand what I need. This Area chapter in my neck of the woods which I tried to join which by the way, nobody ever called me back ... I know some people there personally and he admitted that he really has no idea or understanding what's going on other than the fact that the chapter gurus or whoever is running it said that this was a good idea that's the way they should vote.
That said I have a sneaky suspicion that the board that is pushing for towables is banking on the ignorance of a lot of our members that do not participate in the forums to hear the argument. It doesn't make it right or wrong but I'm entitled to believe that and quite frankly, so do a lot of other people. You can't discount that because that's not your feeling.
Lastly, there's not a company in the world that does exactly what their stockholders once or their members once because they will quickly tell you if they're going to vote in the "best interest" of the organization whether is or it isn't. There's a little building in Washington DC that shaped like a dome that houses people that do that all the time ... this is really no different.
At this stage of the game the only thing we can do is hope and pray that the vote is not miscounted, did there is no issues and that there is some honesty among the ranks and we move on. If the vote passes decisions will have to be made across the board, if it doesn't guess what, decisions still have to be made.
I have been here four years total, 1 in this position, and there has not been a positive financial year. Didn't go back and look at the post you referenced, but it is incorrect.
I am paid to do a job along with the other staff members. My point was I nor any other staff has a final say in anything. Non-paid elected members, IE the executive board and governing board, decide the direction and have final decision on issues that we are discussing. They have no financial gain in making those decisions. My job is to execute their directives.
No one from the chapter called you back? If you want to send me an email at csmith@fmca.com, I would be glad to reach out on your behalf. The chapters have meetings and discuss issues like this, so it's a shame if the chapter members are letting the chapter president decide their vote at the governing board level.
We can agree to disagree on the board pushing for towables. They see an unsustainable financial situation, and have provided a possible solution. Membership has the final say. If they don't care to vote, that is a shame. This is not the only solution. Just one that was presented.
I think Area VP's and the executive board would disagree with the statement about them making decisions contrary to what membership wants. These individuals visit chapters and hold area rallies all the time. They take their jobs seriously, and they are all members, so I see no reason they would not have the members best interest in mind. Their decisions effect them as well as you.
We pay an audit firm a lot of money, and they do this all day every day, so I doubt there would be a miscount.
I don't want anyone to take my responses as argumentative. I want to be informative and answer questions. Felt a need to step in to clarify remarks I was seeing in this thread.
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2 hours ago, HayesFamily said:Bill,
Being the new guy it's obvious that I can't comment on past rallies and past magazines and past stuff. But you said something very relevant which makes me believe that you're absolutely correct.
"Management is SO CONFIDENT"
Being a corporate Refugee, one of the things that I have experienced in the world of corporate America or anything with the corporate structure, whatever corporate thinks is best, wants to do, or feels is necessary to do ... THEY WILL DO. They will lie to stockholders (ENRON) they will take risks against wise counsels advice and the advice of the general employee population to a point where it becomes dangerous and no way to return back to being profitable (MBNA) and they will do anything to protect upper level management pockets for years to come.
That being said I think that it is overly obvious that the majority of people in the forums are really not happy about towables, not necessarily the towable itself but the idea of towables being part of a motorhome Club. What really scares me is the vast amounts of people that are not in the forums that are members of various chapters. Those chapter officers who are willing to do whatever management says for whatever political gain there maybe can sway votes that we don't see. What scares me even more is the information that they have is probably skewed because they are not on the form hearing the pros and cons. So your corporate structure is going to lie about money and say we're going broke and uninformed people are going to do whatever they can to save the oval, we've already witnessed some risk-taking from FMCA that all of a sudden nobody wants to talk about to the tune of several hundreds of thousands of ddollar; the vast majority is okay because nobody's been prosecuted, and no matter how you look at it many people who have said it are absolutely correct, the fix is in, it was already decided several years ago. So nobody can say that it wasn't done with formality they mail out a ballot which let's be frank and honest, absolutely nobody trust but the people who want towables.
I think more people would have had faith in the board and in the system if an independent company actually tallied the voting and certified it correct. It would have been done electronic and we would have been able to see real-time results but they opted not to do that and I'm gas it was because of the "cost" ... which I'm not dumb by any means, if you can print an addition like a card in an envelope then it was affordable to do with an outside company.
At this point there are several things that can be done because hashing it out over and over is worse than beating a dead horse ...
1. We can blame the Russians ... And we see where that is going.
2. We can create chapters with the premise that it is motorhome only and hope we don't get sued for discrimination
3. We walk away from the benefits of FMCA and do like the rest of the population that I've seen in Parks, proudly display the oval but have no real affiliation anymore other than conversation on the forms with our friends.
4. If by chance by some miracle towable RVs get voted down we can all go back to enjoying FMCA for what it was until the next time they come up with a scheme for everybody to get cheesed off.
FMCA is a member-owned non-profit. Our main goal is not to make as much money as possible. It is to provide members with as much value for their membership while breaking even. That has not happened for years. Our financials are public knowledge. All of the decision makers are non paid elected volunteers. No pockets to line or protect.
We will absolutely do what our stockholders(members) tell us to do. That is why we are putting this to vote for membership to decide. That is why we have an executive board and governing board.
Chapter officers vote the way the chapter members tell them to. When the vote is done at the governing board, there is not a recording of how each chapter voted.
No one is lying about our financial situation. Again you can look over financials if you like.
The ballot is not counted by FMCA. Check the return address on your ballot. It is sent back directly to Mandel and Associates. They are an independent audit firm who only shares results with us. We don't physically handle or see the ballots.
The topic of electronic voting has been brought up many times. Would have loved to do that, but our governing documents forbid it and only allow for paper ballot. We have to follow the governing documents.
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1 hour ago, WILDEBILL308 said:Personally I think any more discussion is not relevant. The management is so confident it will pass they are already inviting towables to the different Rallys and functions. See page 91, 93, of the October issue.
Bill
Towables have been allowed to attend rallies for the four years I have been with FMCA.
To add to this, area rallies are not run by FMCA management. Each Area VP plans and executes their rallies.
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7 hours ago, dons2346 said:Close the thread. It is obvious that you delete whatever you don't want to hear therefore making you a dictator and we don't need it.
Oh, by the way, I sent you a question as to why one of my posts was deleted. You haven't the courtesy of a reply. Could you explain that?
What Brett deletes and closes isn't a matter of opinion. There are forum rules that he enforces, which everyone agreed to when they signed up.
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1 hour ago, dons2346 said:Chris, the info I stated about the positive years was stated to me by two past AVPs that were in office at the time. Guess you can't trust any info received from those that were in charge. Did this happen following the change in the way active members are counted?
The idea for towables was never presented to the GB, there was nothing ever said about any "study". All that was put to us by Charlie during one of his "workshops" before the GB meeting was that we need to change our articles so that FMCA can explore other areas of the rv industry.
Out of the blue the following motion was brought to the floor with the following discussion:
Ken Carpenter, F312233, with the Diesel RV Club chapter, moved to authorize the Executive Board to initiate and supervise the amendment of the purpose statement in the Articles of Incorporation so that it is as broad as possible to avoid an overly restrictive constraint on FMCA’s mission (which may evolve over time) and activities in serving the needs and expectations of its members. The motion was seconded and discussion followed.
The current Articles of Incorporation were briefly reviewed. A question was raised regarding whether the Governing Board or Executive Board would be deciding whether to allow towable vehicles. It was answered that it would eventually be a Governing Board decision. A question was raised regarding whether the bottom line intent of the motion was to allow towables into FMCA. It was answered that that is not the ultimate question, but this motion opens the door. A question was raised regarding how much the cost would be to change the Articles of Incorporation. It was answered that it would be less than $10,000. Several members spoke in favor of the motion.The answer as to who will make the ultimate decision on allowing towables is wrong, the final decision is in the hands of the total membership thus the ballot in the magazine.
The money to be given to rVillage started out at the amount of $500,000! and the owner said he could gain us 7,000 new members. That amount was later reduced to $250,000 thanks to a few AVPs. At the time of this happening (May,2016) rVillage had approximately 44,900 members. (Todays rVillage says they have 75,000). Not quite the 150% as you state. Unless something has happened, there is no way to tabulate the number of new members FMCA has received as a direct result of rVillage
The only change to the active member count occurred this year in January. We eliminated grace members, which dropped around 1,000 members from the active count.
When RVillage was introduced to me, their active count was around 31,000. It took quite a while to put ink to paper, so by the time the agreement was eventually signed, the active count could have been 44,900. Don't recall what it was when the deal was signed.
Let me find the historical member figures, and I can tell you loss/gain by year since 2004. Pretty staggering. Which also makes it much more amazing that we have had two positive years in a row. Still a lot of ground to make up to get back to 130,000 at the peak of membership.
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36 minutes ago, aztec7fan said:Actually, if the new member fills out the application form online, there is a box that asks "how did you hear about FMCA?". One of the options us "RVIllage". Why ask this question if we can't track the responses?
It can absolutely be tracked by those who fill RVillage in that box. My guess is not everyone fills that in, so it would paint an incorrect figure. Keep in mind that was a one time expense, so we will never pay for advertising on RVillage again. At 60 per new member, we would need to obtain roughly 4,200 members to break even. That is not counting convention and RV Basics registrations that we receive as well. Very confident we will get our money back and more over the life of the agreement.
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3 hours ago, rpelatt said:Smithy, Can you comment on what Dons2346 said one page back:
Another example of the executive board using bad judgement is the giving of $250,000 to the owner of rVillage, a facebook wanna be. The so called details of the gift is that FMCA will supposedly receive 5% interest on the money OR the owner has the option to issue FMCA stock in the company which is supposed to happen in 2019. This info was found out when I requested a copy of the current annual audit. It had to be covered there to justify the $250,000. You might think this is great in that we will get something however our investments are regulated by our Policy & Procedures. Those tell the organization what investments can be invested in. One that we cannot invest in is private stock. rVillage is not listed on any stock exchange. During the last GB meeting I questioned the then treasurer about the 5% interest and had we received it yet. The treasurer informed the entire GB that the "money is gone". Not one member of the GB stood up and raised any issue with it.
Did this indeed happen and how did it happen? Is there that little oversight that someone can authorize an expenditure of this size that is in total violation of the charter and no one caught it?
Bob
The agreement was done before I became Executive Director, so I was not privy to all the details. I can say the intent was never to invest in RVillage. It was booked as a marketing expense, and the auditors insisted it be classified as an investment.
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On 10/1/2017 at 10:30 PM, dons2346 said:" ................... I firmly believe we need to vote with the recommendation of the Board. They have studied the issues involved and know the subjects much better than I could ever do so nor want to do so at this stage of my life. I believe they are good well meaning people who want the very best for this organization................... "
Sundance, here is the problem with your analogy. There was zero study done on the subject of "recreation vehicles" becoming a part of FMCA. From here on out, I'll use "towable". Not one towable club or manufacturer was contacted about this endeavor, not one. This was brought about by one person and one only. In fact this person, at one of his rallies had a towable show up. He took his treasurer over to the trailer and told him he was not welcome and the treasurer wrote a check for the rally fees and he was told to leave. Now all of a sudden he thinks this is the greatest idea since sliced bread.
Another example of the executive board using bad judgement is the giving of $250,000 to the owner of rVillage, a facebook wanna be. The so called details of the gift is that FMCA will supposedly receive 5% interest on the money OR the owner has the option to issue FMCA stock in the company which is supposed to happen in 2019. This info was found out when I requested a copy of the current annual audit. It had to be covered there to justify the $250,000. You might think this is great in that we will get something however our investments are regulated by our Policy & Procedures. Those tell the organization what investments can be invested in. One that we cannot invest in is private stock. rVillage is not listed on any stock exchange. During the last GB meeting I questioned the then treasurer about the 5% interest and had we received it yet. The treasurer informed the entire GB that the "money is gone". Not one member of the GB stood up and raised any issue with it.
Any member can get any document from FMCA by calling and asking to talk to "membership services". You can get meeting minutes from any meeting, monthly treasurer reports, etc.
Hi Don. I try to stay neutral, but I think you are posting some dangerous misinformation in this thread. One that comes to mind is from a few pages back. You said that we had two positive years when we didn't have a medical assistance program. That is simply not true. In fact, until fiscal year 2016, we had membership losses every year since 2004. So FMCAssist has helped.
I am also taken aback by the statement above. There were months of study and preparation done to make sure we had a good handle on towables. If it passes, our magazine, events and membership departments will be more than ready to welcome them in.
I can't speak much on RVillage. I was not part of the conversations and negotiations on that deal. I can tell you since the deal was made, the user count on RVillage has gone up 150%. We do gain new members and convention attendees by having our ads prominently placed on every page. In the last year nearly 5,000,000 ad views have occurred. As they grow we grow. It is a good relationship for FMCA to have.
Also wanted to speak on the member that said they joined with a fifth wheel a few pages back. I am also confused about how someone could join and not realize it is a motor home association. But it does happen. We do have people periodically email membership and ask to cancel because they own a fifth wheel. That post was not a hoax and not planted by an employee or executive board member. As I read through this thread, I keep seeing that the fix is in. I don't quite understand that sentiment. Reasons were given as to why the change was proposed. That has to happen. It was also said that if the proposal was voted down, FMCA would survive. Maybe not with the offerings we have today, but it would survive. FMCA has done everything in its power to tell membership to vote. We have roughly 3,500 ballots returned so far, with two months to go.
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3 hours ago, jeff753 said:Manholt you may have forgotten about the associate member but your post alluding a changed magazine in December appears to be gossip. Harmful gossip. That is not in the interest of the forum or membership
As to voter turnout -//. If you do not attend rallys it's likely you don't even know about the vote. So I wouldn't expect more than 3000 votes. Not representative but it is what it is. I don't think national directors are representative either since less than 1/3 belong to chapters. But again it is what it is.
Thanks to Chris Smith for clarifying the gossip
Jeff- We are doing our best to spread the word. It's in bold red lettering on the magazine cover. It's a highlighted announcement on the home page of the website. We have included it in the newsletter. On social media. Not sure what else we can do to let membership know.
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20 hours ago, WhiteEagle said:Voted NO .. for the same 10 reasons expressed on forum 110 different ways...
I really hope the leaders haven't spent a single penny on developing premature and hopefully useless ad company ads, programs, or solicitation articles for a pre-planned campaign.
That would be an significant and expensive financial error. Thinking that unless the FMCA leaders spend tons on a campaign, the members are going to vote a resounding NO.... and hopefully we'll be a Motor Coach Association going forward.
We have had meetings to discuss what needs to change IF the vote goes through. We can't wait until December 1st to decide changes that need to be made. With that said, we have spent nothing on ads, programs or solicitations. Contrary to popular belief, nothing is being presumed. I hope everyone understands that we must have discussions and plans in place whichever way the vote goes!
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7 hours ago, manholt said:Could be the fifth owner had a F# from before, then it's ??? legal?
Don't know what's in the Magazine, only that the cover will represent Family camping....Herman might have heard more than I did, the acoustic was real bad.
We may never know the real number of votes, probably just in percentage!
WhiteEagle. Any $$$ spent, would have been during Charlie's reign as NP. Jon Walker has been in office for 2 months.
I can say with 100% certainty that the magazine you receive in December will look exactly like the one you have now. The vote is open until November 30th. The December magazine has to be to the printer in early November.
As of last Friday we have had 1,568 ballots returned.
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Alflorida and Manholt- if you are having issues opting out of emails, please contact the membership department at 1-800-543-3622.
Manholt- If you ever receive 12+ emails a day, please forward them to me. Csmith@fmca.com. That is a problem if true, and I honestly can't think of why that many would be sent in one day.
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I run the reports every weekday morning. Our year starts October 1st. From 10/1/16 through 8/30/17, we were up 3,412 members.
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Seven Corners has found a couple companies that will transport coaches older than 10 years. That was one of the big complaints that members had regarding FMCAssist, and Seven Corners stepped up and found a solution.
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28 minutes ago, jeff753 said:How many members are aware of the proposed change? I was surprised to hear only 30% of the 72,000 members are represented by chapters/national directors. Makes sense though. Chapters are mainly older established groups.
Maybe an announcement of the upcoming vote on fmca social media would help spread the word of the question being asked.
We will be doing an announcement on social media, and are considering sending an e-blast out as well.
Should FMCA Allow Towable RVs-- Vote NOW
in FMCA Feedback
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We have programs in place with many manufacturers and dealers. We offer comp memberships to their buyers, and we convert those comps into paying members at a pretty enocouraging clip. Much better than other associations.