camarti1

Thank You Herman for the information. I am referring to Smithy. I knew I had seen a member identify themselves as a representative of the FMCA. I made a horrible assumption all employees would identify themselves to the membership, so as to not skew any perceptions being shared by "members".

I am so severely disappointed right now, knowing one of the "members" writing and participating on this forum is an employee of the corporation. A PAID employee at that! Was it a willful omission in your "note" section you are an employee of the FMC, and therefore, not an objective voice to the others on the forum? Is this how business is conducted within the framework of the FMC and FMCA? Well, at least we know where the push is coming from for the "yes" votes on this forum, and now we know the why.

"The RVing Demographic is Changing Working on the road or raising a family while nomadic is no longer a rarity but a rapidly growing segment of the RV lifestyle. Modern technology has provided new tools to make life on the road easier, making pursuing this dream increasingly possible for many aspiring RVers. Xscapers embraces this change and is ready to be a part of it with you. This isn’t only our way of life, it’s a conscious ideal." The above is a caption and a quote from the Xscapers, the newest arm of the Escapees club. When I look at the website for the Escapees club, there are families and young people. They are sitting together in a classroom, learning some RV basics. Their "community" section is easy to move around on the web page, as there is not many multiple layers of hierarchy to find out how to be a member of a local group. FMCA needs to make a conscious choice to be a club for motor coaches with family inclusive values. That would mean weekend getaways close to centers where people can congregate within a few hours. Groups built of like minded folks like those folks which enjoy dune riding, or those with small kids, perhaps a day near a 4H event or a local dog show, sponsored by FMCA. Okay, I will stop now, I am not trying to make anyone angry at me, I just feel there is so much more FMCA could be doing to bring added value to its members, besides the discounts on the tires and the roadside assistance program. Good Sam already has those options. Price is not the only reason for someone to purchase something, it also needs to bring added value to the purchaser and their family. Families find value to be much more of a factor then price. Disney has proven that, offer kids perceived great values and a good time, and mom and dad will participate with the children.

Good Sam is everywhere, no distinction as to the rig type. There are apps for the Good Sam club and Camping world locations. FMCA has rules of etiquette, Good Sam has how to join and it's retail partners. FMCA has "motor coach" right in the middle of its name. Good Sam club, when it was first formed, stood for "Good Samaritan", as in a family oriented group with like minds. Now, it means if you join, you get discounts on camping in a lot of campgrounds, anything you can drag into the campground is a rig, doesn't even have to be self contained, and you have discounts available at hundreds of Camping World stores. What happened to the like minded individuals forming a group to get out and enjoy various activities? They are forming their own groups, separate from Good Sam, and attracting like minded individuals, who can get together on their own time, free of chapters and long commitments. The original intent of Good Sam has been lost to commercialization. There is nothing to bond Good Sam members together except for a membership card. Is this what FMCA sees for its long term goal, to be just another commercial entity, wearing logo shirts, and giving lip service to the members as to what the FMCA is really supposed to be? C'mon, FMCA right now is a club of motor coach owners with motor coaching goals as its primary distinction. That distinction is something most of us do not want to lose.

Look at the pictures under the governance tab, look at the Chapter leadership photo's, look at the activities occurring. Does anyone, from a neutral position, doubt the age of the average member? Look at the "F" numbers of the members of the various committees, read the resume's of the latest elected officials. Read how long they have been doing this for. I, for one, admire the years of service provided to the FMCA, but I do ask how can it be expected to have an open mind for the new and emerging members to participate in various activities, when various activities are not offered via chapters and mostly important, the executive and governing board. It is sad to say, but the FMCA is aging itself out of fashion unless it gets the point of attracting the newer, younger members and families. This would mean a whole new thought process around what direction the FMCA wants to steer the ship in, because it is quite apparent the ship is off course if it feels offering membership to trailers is the solution to its larger problem. I feel the FMCA is a motorcoach group, and should stay this way. If the vote turns out to be against allowing towables, the next logical step is to look inwards for some real clarity about what the membership needs, how the corporation is structured and how to be welcoming to the next generations of motor coach owners. The baby boomers are already here, next we need a long range plan to attract the millennials, or GEN X, as they are going to be the next group to woo into the camping fray. If it is business as usual, these folks won't even consider being a part of the group, or as I heard it put, this isn't your granddad's RV anymore.

By reading their website, they have a discount with Coach-net, which provides all of the services for $239. I am not fluent on comparing their services to FMCA's, but the services included seem to be comprehensive. They do limit their membership to class A,B, and C coaches. Which may or not be a draw, depending on this vote. It appears the club is giving a home address of Atlanta, GA., which is one of the locations for NIRVC. The yearly dues are $35, plus the cost of additional purchased services such as Coach-net, RV insurance discount, or Sky-Med. Again, I am not familiar with these options, just mentioning them from the AIM site. The are offering a Sturgis Gala prior to FMCA's convention in Gillette, WY. The site suggests a caravan from the Sturgis Gala to the FMCA Convention. Just offering a synopsis of what is on the website for AIM. I am not endorsing or promoting a different club, merely recapping what is being read by me on their site.

https://www.aimclub.org/ Started and supported by NIRVC, or National Indoor RV centers.

This is a very, very rough draft, it is not ready for submission. As JRWITT stated, it will take 20 member numbers to affect an amendment. The governing board has the ultimate power to establish, amend, or delete. I am asking for the impossible, which is also highly improbable, but at least we can say we tried.

Amendment to Amend Proposed Changes to the Articles of Incorporation & Constitution of FMCA Proposers Rationale: The amendment to the Articles of Incorporation & Constitution of FMCA need clarity, allowing members to know the reasoning behind such changes in order to effectively cast a vote. The Preamble of the Family Motor Coach Association states as follows: Preamble The Family Motor Coach Association is the premiere organization that promotes motorhoming family, fun, and fellowship for motor coach owners. The Family Motor Coach Association shall strive to achieve its purpose by engaging in programs and activities that reflect the following core values: member focus; family, fun, and fellowship; integrity; the sharing of common interests; volunteerism; and motorhome safety and education. Following: Mission and Purpose: A. The Mission of FMCA is to bring together motor coach owners who share similar interests in congenial traveling, recreational, and social activities in order to preserve and perpetuate the traditional ideals and spirit of friendly and wholesome family fellowship as manifested by the founders of FMCA. Following: Policy and Procedure Amendments 2. A proposal to amend these policies and procedures, either by making changes or creating new ones, may be initiated by the Governing Board, the Executive Board, any FMCA committee, the Executive Director, or a petition signed by twenty memberships. Following: Whereas the proposed amendment, while striking and adding language and definitions, does not offer the general membership an understanding as to why this change needs to occur at this time. Following: Whereas a significant number of the FMCA membership do not belong to a chapter, as most chapters do not meet the needs of many of the members at large. Therefore, a large segment of the FMCA population is without representation at the national level. Following: Whereas a segment of the general membership feels more options shall be explored to increase membership as well as retain current membership. Suggestions have been made to this forum which deserve a chance to be researched prior to adding a different demographic group to the Corporation. There are other options available to the FMCA to increase/retain membership with motor coach owners versus adding towables. Summation Therefore, it is with great urgency this proposal be reviewed and submitted expeditiously to cancel the current member vote of the “Proposed changes to the Articles of Incorporation & Constitution of FMCA”. The membership at large needs an understanding as to why this vote needs to happen at this time prior to reviewing other methodology of membership increase and/or retention. The membership at large desires to understand the outcome of such a vote, as the amendments alone do not advise current motor coach owners how this will affect their standing within the corporation. This member humbly submits this proposal for consideration and desires the consideration be accelerated, causing this to be complete, prior to the 30th of November, 2017. Respectfully submitted by the following members:

Has anyone asked Smithy what else he was talking about?

I kind of got the gist of that, which is why I am considering the tract of how did we get here and why. Did anybody look at other alternatives? How has the membership been growing or losing for the last five years? Has a retention plan been formulated to keep existing members? Has a membership dues increase been considered? Why or why not? How much is the shortfall on a year to year basis? Why this, why now, why is the membership as a whole not aware of how this decision was arrived at? To say it came out of a committee is not going to sell, as the Preamble fosters open communication with the intent of making motorhoming the primary reason for the club. I just need to get my ducks to align properly to make a presentation that sounds compelling, profound, and asking for an immediate meeting to curtail this vote before it happens. Easy peasy, right?

The other part I wrote, as I just remembered, was the way to grow the revenue is to grow the base. The suggestions just on this forum alone could generate dollars quickly. Just think if we had a place for all of the ideas to go and be validated as a way to grow our base and retain current and previous members? We have a wealth of knowledge out there, just no one has asked for it. Give the members a chance to upscale the numbers and see where it goes.

Well Ollie, I did it again. I had written a great piece about what we could do next, and jumped back a page, and the entire written work is gone. Guess it means I need to rewrite my thoughts in a more salient manner. "Part of my problem with the whole thing is the one sided promotion of the deal" A quote from a member at the Six State Rally talking about how the speaker was hawking the vote but now allowing any discussion or rebuttal. This would indicate a breach of the Preamble: Preamble The Family Motor Coach Association is the premiere organization that promotes motorhoming family, fun, and fellowship for motor coach owners. The Family Motor Coach Association shall strive to achieve its purpose by engaging in programs and activities that reflect the following core values: member focus; family, fun, and fellowship; integrity; the sharing of common interests; volunteerism; and motorhome safety and education. This type of grandstanding is contrary to: Governing Board Responsibilities 1. Individual members of the Governing Board shall assume the responsibilities that their office imposes. 2. The following statements describe the principal obligations of each member of the Governing Board: A. Always think in terms of “FMCA first,” rather than “mine own self.” B. Remember to represent, at all times, the best interests of the entire FMCA membership. C. Understand that the basic function of the Governing Board is actually that of “oversight” and not “administrative,” and each should accept the responsibility of learning to intelligently discriminate between these two functions. D. Recognize that authority rests only in the Governing Board and is exercised within official meetings and embodied in the acts adopted therein. Individual members never have any legal right to obligate the Governing Board or FMCA except by voting in assembled meetings or by mail balloting, and/or endowing the National Officers with delegated authority. E. Take care to ensure that all actions of the Governing Board are in the best interests of the entire FMCA membership. F. Insist that transaction of Governing Board business be conducted in an open, ethical, and “above board” manner through adequate consideration of all questions. I feel the Governing board should operate in an open, ethical way. For someone to prosthelytize their own feelings and beliefs and not allow additional discussion is against the written direction of the Governing Board, and hence, the need to redirect the issue of the vote. There was not open, ethical, or above board mannerisms considered. I need to word a request to have the executive board be called to a meeting on this, as the executive board is the one body that meets all year, and is not segregated into only meeting during a national convention. Through my reading I have seen how a proper request is stated and written. I will still need the 20 votes with the member numbers to initiate the process to have the executive board at least rule on the request. If the request is turned down, then the motion from the floor will then take precedent. In other words, I have some writing to do, which will be quite a task for me. Can anyone else write this up in a manner to attract the attention of the e-board as to call a special meeting, or am I alone on this? I can probably do it, it just will not be as fabulous as my prior writings used to be. This is my schtick for now. Gonna go and see what's for dinner, then come back and look at formatting this request. Pasta tonight always makes me feel comfortable.

Bill, my understanding of a member in good standing does not come from the FMCA, but rather a larger corporation that was also non-profit. This would be dues are paid, there are not any grievances or pending litigation against you, and finally, you are active within the community, which would mean the FMCA community. The rule of law would support the definition as I gave it, as I worked with our corporate attorney at the time to write this rule. Active could mean staying on the boards and offering assistance when asked, up to going out and helping Habitat for Humanity slam in a few nails. Me, I went to homes of the elderly and help clean up the outside for them for a few hours in the morning about once a month. What a difference it makes in someone's life to have such a small kindness done. It really wasn't much to pull a few weeds and rake some rocks. I will let you know if I am going to throw out another motion for the 20 people, and when. I am still thinking on it, and need my head to brain to calm down so I can get some new ideas. Now I remember why I don't drink coffee in the morning anymore. Caffeine is not always a friend.

too bad, these are the members we need to retain. Not only is there a need for bringing new members, but retaining the ones we got, especially if this towable thing goes through. 3

Ya think??? I am doing some additional thinking on all of this, # 1 because I really have over taxed my damaged brain, and 2nd, sometimes ya just need to walk away for a little while and then an answer will come to ya. I think Bill has his heart in the right place, he is just frustrated, like so many are, over this process.

rpellat, Thank You so much for the clarification, I had not asked for those documents, was just keeping my browsing to the available on line writings I have access to. I am still hung up on 20 members in good standing should be able to cut this off right now and table the vote for adding towables to the membership. Especially when using the core document stressing members are first, which would then supersede all of this other committee stuff.

I read the Constitution, the by-laws, and the members guide, and nowhere is there stipulation as to money limits which can be spent by a committee or a member of the executive board. As a matter of fact, it is read that the corporation may do all that is needed to procure services it feels are needed. So despite what the bylaws state, it is spelled out within the bylaws there is no cap on spending on whatever the corporation feels it needs.

I totally agree with you. There are too many MH owners not to have a greater membership.

I truly believe the membership needs to be expanded to an all motorcoach base before including towables. I also feel marketing efforts to attract this base has been less than stellar. I have spent the morning, since 6 a.m. MST reading, and then reading some more about the structure, rules, bylaws, and handbooks. I even had a cup of coffee this morning to make sure I was awake and able to stay focused on the task at hand. I haven't drank coffee for over seven years. There will be officer elections this year, and it is interesting there are only one candidate for each position, so why even have an election. What seems to be happening, in my humble opinion, is a coronation of those already deemed the new officers. Is this what is left from the culling down by the election committee? Just read the FMCA's Strategic plan, dated August 31, 2001. This struck me as what FMCA should be about and adhering to. What happened to these values? Core Values are basic, timeless guiding principles. The following Core Values reflect the spirit of FMCA: · Members are the focus · Family, Fun, & Fellowship · Integrity · Sharing common interests · Volunteerism · Motorhome Safety & Education Anyone else notice the first statement that is bolded above? If members are truly the focus, then I have to ask, based upon what I have spent a significant amount of time reading, why are so many of the decisions made by groups behind closed doors, sans input from the general membership? Something is written by group A, sent over to Group B for review, if it is passable it is then sent to group C, if not, it will be referred back to group A, and start the process all over again. And it can take up to how many months to pass these ideas back and forth? I truly am saddened by the layers upon layers of processes, most of which the average member cannot add to or participate in. Every segment of the organization has two and three layers of groups of people which from President on down. I now understand why most folks will not join a chapter. If they will not join a chapter, then they are not given a voice. No voice, no representation at the next level. If the next level doesn't have a fair number to reflect the true will of the member, then things happen such as a vote to allow towables. This type of referendum, in my extremely humble opinion, was done in a vacuum. Solitary people come together to meet and vote, no other members outside of the delegates are allowed. Governing Board: A statement which sticks out and screams to me: Recognize that authority rests only in the Governing Board and is exercised within official meetings and embodied in the acts adopted therein. Individual members never have any legal right to obligate the Governing Board or FMCA except by voting in assembled meetings or by mail balloting, and/or endowing the National Officers with delegated authority. Scary stuff to me.

It appears to me, in a lot of cases, the best way to get some news is to read the forum. What I read in the statement above, these particular folks don't want towables admitted to the FMCA. I asked the question about FMCA on the Big Rig RV site on Facebook. Of all of the people on this site at any given time, I received two responses. One likes the magazine, and the other likes the FMCA assist. Two answers in 30 minutes. That is not, in any way, a positive turn out.

Welcome to the group Steve56. May your health be great from now on, and dearly wish you the happiest motor coaching for years to come

This is my greatest concern with the structure of the organization. This organization, as a non-profit, should have a lateral chain of command, where each entity is equal to the next, yet distinct in its function. What it appears to this reader is a corporation which has an inverted pyramid as its structure, making the top more powerful than the membership. But, those are my assumptions for right now. I still have a lot more reading to do, and it is difficult for me to read and comprehend a great deal since my strokes. It is, indeed, a slow, timely process. It takes me quite a while just to respond to these messages and sound like a sane human being (that will be the day).

Good Morning Bill, So glad to see that Houston will win for the first time in the World Serious. Every one needs a first time, as we have all been new at something at least once in our lives. I don't see a need for anyone to block someone over what I call a minor skirmish. But heh, what do I know, I am still new, and look forward to everyone working together to make the FMCA a member driven entity that is truly in the member's corner. Sounds as if such a task is daunting, but in reality, as soon as I finish doing some more reading and comprehending, we may already have the answers to some of my outstanding questions. I am still looking for an opening for the members to have a way of discontinuing this vote before it goes to the CPA's, and have it benefit the members needs and opinions. Bill, are you a current member or a former member? Do you have active voting rights as of this moment? Are you a member in good standing to help win my points of contention that I suspect I will be writing soon? Or at least sometime today? I am in AZ, so its 6:37 am here, so I will go and get a cup of courage and start my arduous trek into the labyrinth of committees and boards, and how symbiotic this whole group has become. It's as if it feeds off of itself, rather then reach out for new ideas, in my humble opinion. Now, where did that coffee cup go!

So, then, who got to vote on initiating changes to the constitution? Was this something voting members brought forward? Is this a product of the governing board? I ask, because when looking at the order of how the documents rank, the constitution should take precedent. Bylaws, which direct actions of the various and numerous groups, are directions to those to live by, under the constitution. It would seem to this observer, the vehicle should be the constitution, and the bylaws should be the driver. If there is no vehicle, there is not a need for a driver. Which of course brings me back to the 20 voting members and their ability to change or halt this current direction the FMCA is taking. If the drivers are trying to tell the vehicle which way to go, and there is not a vehicle to direct, then the steering committee, the gas pedal committee, the spark plug committee, the back seat committee, the headrest committee, and so on have no value. The vehicle will take direction from the committees, but the vehicle is still the focus of the trip. Ideally, all of these groups would work in tandem, but upon trying to read and comprehend all of the levels of committees and who has precedent over whom, it boggles the brain. I had three strokes in 2005, and so my ability to read and comprehend, as well as question the things I am takes some time to process. I still strongly feel the constitution, as the overriding document, allows for 20 voting members, that are in good standing, to make a motion from the "floor", even at this late date. I understand the process as it was developed, but I do not see where it is written it is only process to be allowed. Hence, my attraction to the word "or". How does one go about getting onto one of these numerous committees that make these decisions? Are they all local to Ohio? Are these people paid a salary? Is there an expectation the "committee members" are available to be at these various meetings in person? Okay, me and my 20 voting members ideology are going to think on this some more, and try to come to an understanding as to why 20 voting members cannot stop this train while it is still on track, before it derails itself. Thanks to all who have given of your time and talent, it again, is appreciated.