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bburns8

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Posts posted by bburns8

  1. Posted · Report reply

    27 minutes ago, kaypsmith said:

    I don't think that he is referring to charging the batteries, I think he is referring to causing a draw against the house batteries, if the inverter is turned off,

    No, the tech is referring to charging the batteries.  He clearly said that the reason the house batteries are not being charged when plugged into shore power is because our inverter was turned on.

  2. Posted · Report reply

    Update:  We had the house batteries load tested Monday 12/3 and the batteries tested good.  We have been on shore power (uniterrupted) since Monday.  We checked the house batteries plugged into shore power today 12/6.

    Plugged into shore power
    House batteries 14.38

    Unplugged from shore power (waited 30 min)
    House batteries 12.24

    The RV tech said this is normal and it is because we have the inverter turned on.  He turned the inverter off.  He said the interverter should only be turned on when driving with the generator off.  He said he would check it tommorow at noon.

    I've never heard that you have to have the inverter turned off in order to charge you house batteries.  When I questioned the tech he said it's because it is a new inverter/charger and the insides are different than they were in our old inverter/charger eventhough it is the exact same model.

    Does this sound valid?

  3. Posted · Report reply

    54 minutes ago, richard5933 said:

    If batteries tested good and they still lose charge, then something has to be drawing from them. There is a phantom load somewhere, and the first place I'd look is to see if the Inverter/Charger is being properly turned off when not either in use or plugged and charging. If that's not it, then something else is drawing power.

    The batteries may be good today, but park somewhere for a few days and run them down to nothing a few times and they'll be needing replacement again.

    The house batteries voltage on each battery was reading around 6.15.  In order to load test the batteries, they needed to be at 6.3.  We placed the external battery charger on them to get a full charge and then took them to the battery shop and they came out to the car and tested the voltage then they load tested them with a bigger machine (180-200 amps).  Each one tested good.

     

  4. Posted · Report reply

    8 hours ago, DickandLois said:

        New Batteries are not always perfect. About 2 years ago, while at a national rally a coach owner was having battery issues. They where not holding a charge over night. The charging circuit was operating as specified.  The batteries where replaced about 6 months before and the owner had the sales recite.

    The following day I did a hydrometer reading and One cell had a reading of Water. All the other cells had normal readings, considering there was one cell not contributing any voltage or current. The defective battery was replaced and the system worked as expected.

    How does one battery wind up with just water in one cell? Who knows, Kind of think the person adding acid, emptied  one container, garbed another and it had only water in it . 

    This issue has been going around and around, so it might be time to take a hydrometer reading of all the cells, charge each battery / run a load test on each battery - to get a good base line of known information directly relative to the batteries and go from there. 

    Rich.

    Thanks Rich.  Batteries were load tested today and are good.  

  5. Posted · Report reply

    9 hours ago, kaypsmith said:

    The only way one can expect a perfect reading on any battery is to charge the battery fully, completely disconnect that battery from any device such as the inverter/charger as soon as, if not before power is disconnected from the charging device, then let it rest for 30 minutes to 24 hours, check the voltage as soon as disconnected and then compare that reading with the 30 minute/ 24 hour reading. If you see a great difference under those conditions then suspect a faulty battery. An inverter/charger by the very nature of the device, remember that it is automatic failover, will immediately start discharging the connected batteries as soon as power, whether it is shore or generator or alternator is disconnected. The inverter/charger goes into inverter mode as soon as external 120 volt ac is disconnected thus causing drain on the connected batteries, even if no ac is being pulled, the inverter uses 12 volts for it's internal maintenance functions, including cooling fans which start immediately then go back off after test are performed by the power on self test (POST) of the inverter it self. I would never expect to see house battery voltage to be the same as the chassis battery voltage unless I had performed my test as I described above.

    Thanks Kay.  Not looking for a perfect reading.  There is an issue with voltage readings when plugged into shore power and on house batteries when unplugging from shore power.  Batteries were load tested today and are good.

  6. Posted · Report reply

    On 12/2/2018 at 5:01 PM, wolfe10 said:

    Understanding normal voltage with both engine running and generator running is a little complicated.

    Since BOTH sources (alternator and inverter/charger) are ON (if everything working properly) whichever is set to higher voltage will be doing the heavy lifting.

    But, even if one is not working, the other could "cover for its friend".  So, to properly evaluate both alternator and inverter/charger, they need to be operated separately.

    Evaluating voltage drop with no charging device on is a little tricky.  Absolutely, if checking while there is a load on the battery (either 12 VDC directly or especially 120 VAC through the inverter) it WILL read lower than the REST VOLTAGE.

    And, when discussing rest voltage, that is with no charging device on and no loads for at least one hour.  Very common for voltage to "bounce back" after loads are turned off.  The heavier the load, the more the drop under load and more the "bounce back" after removing the load.

     

    Voltage readings from yesterday after we test drove the MH.

    ENGINE ON/Generator OFF
    House 13.58
    Chassis 13.70

    GENERATOR ON/Engine OFF
    House 13.54
    Chassis 13.53

    Plugged into Shore Power (waited 2 min) Outside Tempertature 65
    House 14.50
    Chassis 14.49

    Plugged into Shore Power (waited 7 hours) Outside Temperature 52
    House 13.77
    Chassis 13.79


    The house batteries are charging when we drive the MH.  Once we are plugged into shore power we always get high voltage readings and then after being plugged into shore power for more than 24 hours the voltage on the house batteries drops when we unplug from shore power.

  8. Posted · Report reply

    10 hours ago, manholt said:

    Have you had each battery load tested?  If not, why?

    We were waiting because my dad has a dislocated shoulder and letting it get better before he had to lift anything heavy/use his arm.  We had the house batteries tested today at Batteries Plus.  Each battery had a full charge and each one tested good. 

     

     

  10. Posted · Report reply

    1 hour ago, wolfe10 said:

    Unless you had on some heavy loads, particularly powered by the inverter. dropping to 12.37 after 25 minutes may indicate bad battery.  Most places that sell batteries will test them for FREE.

    How is the battery water level?

    The battery water level is good, batteries are new.  We did not have any heavy loads.

    If batteries check out good, what could cause this?

     

    We pulled over at a rest stop and checked house and chassis with the engine is running, generator on, one AC on.  House reads 14.14 and chassis reads 14.22.  Volt meter on dash is good so far while driving.

     

  11. Posted · Report reply

    Checked house and chassis batteries plugged into shore power.  Temp outside is 68 and sunny.

    House is 13.80

    Chassis is 13.80

     

    Checked house and chassis unplugged from shore power 25 min later.

    House is 12.37

    Chassis is 12.70

    We have been on shore power for 72 hours uninterrupted.

     

    We are going to test drive MH.

     

     

  12. Posted · Report reply

    59 minutes ago, DickandLois said:

    The fact that there is no remote sensor explains the higher then nominal levels. 

    Brett's thought of resetting the system for AGM batteries should lower the peak float voltage point.

    Rich.

    Thanks Rich.  We did not have a remote sensor on our other inverter/charger either but we had normal readings 13.2 range.  Plan on checking the voltage tomorrow.  It will be sunny/warmer and see if there is a change.

  13. Posted · Report reply

    2 hours ago, wolfe10 said:

    Ya, the remote panel gives you a lot more options.

    Try selecting AGM type batteries-- they call for a little lower float voltage that will make your batteries last longer.

    Attached is the battery charger voltage settings based on the type of battery.  It shows if the temp is 60 the FLOAT would be 13.7.  Is this correct?

    battery charger volt settings.JPG

  14. Posted · Report reply

    32 minutes ago, wolfe10 said:

    I do not see the telephone-type cable for a REMOTE.  If you don't have a remote panel inside, you will need to pull out the Xantrex manual and look up programming/setting dip switches. You can also find it on-line on Xantrex's website.

     

    Ambient temperature is part of the initial setup along with battery bank size (in amp-hours) and battery technology (wet cell, gel or AGM).

    We only have a rocker switch inside the MH to turn the inverter on/off.  We do not have the Freedom Remote Control Panel or Link installed.  There is a manual for the Freedom Remote Control Panel or Link but I do not have that and do not see it on the Xantrex website to download. 

    I downloaded the Xantrex Manual.  I do not see info in the manual about programming/setting dip switches.  I see info on the battery technology and how to set what type of battery you have and ours is programmed for wet cell.

  15. Posted · Report reply

    48 minutes ago, wolfe10 said:

    Agreed.  Again, try unplugging the temperature sensor (if you have one) and reprogramming for HOT ambient temperature.

    There is a gray cord plugged into the TSC (temperature sensitive charging).  Looked in the manual to reprogram for HOT ambient temperature and didn't find any info.

    How do you reprogram for HOT ambient temp?

    Inverter/charger pic attached.

    inverter charger.JPG

  16. Posted · Edited by bburns8
    added question     · Report reply

    1 hour ago, wolfe10 said:

    If you are in Ft Worth as your  signature says, temperatures are in the 70's.  So, 13.9 is too high for FLOAT MODE.

    If you have a remote temperature probe, go to the inverter charger and unplug it (telephone type connection-- no tools needed).

    Then program the inverter charger to hot ambient temperature and see what you get after 24 hours.

    We are in Knoxville, TN still.  The temp today is 59 and raining.

    Is 13.9 too high for FLOAT MODE with the outside temperature at 59?

  17. Posted · Report reply

    On 11/30/2018 at 8:46 AM, wolfe10 said:

    The answer to the "high voltage" COULD be as simple as insufficient time has transpired for the inverter/charger to go into FLOAT MODE. Said another way, the inverter/charger may still be (correctly) in bulk or absorption mode.

    Answer to one question will rule that in/out:  What is voltage at the battery 24 hours after plugging in (uninterrupted shore power)?


    Plugged in for 36 hours (uninterrupted shore power).  The voltage is reading 13.97 house batteries and 13.98 chassis batteries.

  18. Posted · Report reply

    2 hours ago, wolfe10 said:

    14 or even 14.2 VDC is just fine right after you plug in.  When the inverter/charger first gets 120 VAC from shore power or generator, it starts in BULK MODE.

    The concern is what voltage drops to once the batteries are fully charged.  So, after, say a couple of hours and on to days and weeks if plugged in, 14 is too high.

    The smart part of the inverter/charger (you don't say what brand/model you have) does this automatically (higher voltage, but drops it into the 13.2-13.5 range in FLOAT MODE. 

    The inverter/charger is a Xantrex Freedom 458-20 Part number 81-2022-12 (Single in/dual out).

  19. Posted · Report reply

    5 hours ago, wolfe10 said:

    Have you PROGRAMMED the new inverter/charger?  Most are programmable.  To be "smart", they need to know things like how large is the battery bank (in amp-hrs), what battery technology (wet cell, AGM or gel) and ambient temperature (if it does not have the optional temperature probe). Your inverter/charger owners manual (or on line) outlines this easy process.

    14 VDC is just find for BULK MODE, but too high for FLOAT MODE-- once batteries are charged, float voltage should be in the 13.2 range.  A little high if very cold out.

    Your last statement is a puzzler, as there is no difference to the inverter/charger whether it receives 120 VAC from shore power or generator.  In fact there is only one set of wires carrying power from either source from the ATS through the 120 VAC main breaker box to the inverter/charger.

    Yes, it is programmed.

    What would cause house batteries to still read 14 VDC when plugged into shore power when they test 90% charged (12.60 range)?

  21. Posted · Report reply

    9 hours ago, richard5933 said:

    The only thing that I see which may or may not be of concern is the voltage at the house batteries while you're plugged in (shore or generator).

    That looks like it is charging at the bulk level (or whatever your charger calls the higher charge level), which is fine for a while but not where I'd want the voltage to long term.

    My charger runs at 14.4v until the batteries are fully charged, then it drops a little for a short while and then finally settles in at 13.2v for a float charge. It stays at the 13.2v float charge all the time if nothing is drawing from the batteries, and once a day it goes to 14.6v for about 15 minutes to keep the batteries from having problems.

    Dropping to somewhere around 13.2v is important, because continuing to charge at a higher voltage causes more out-gassing and more water evaporation.

    My suggestion would be to continue taking voltage readings for a few days after the batteries are fully charged and see what happens. If you just replaced the inverter/charger, I'm sure that there are settings which would allow you to set up the charging pattern that is best for your particular battery situation.

    If you are unsure of the proper charging voltages for your batteries, go to the manufacturer's website and find the data sheet. They should list the various charge voltages they recommend.

    Our house batteries before we had an issue read in the 13.2 range on shore power.  Once the new inverter/charger was installed it always reads in the 14 range on shore power.  Also, when the generator is turned on sometimes it charges the house batteries and a couple of times it has not and the battery voltage actually dropped.  Not sure if something is wrong with the new inverter/charger.

  24. Posted · Report reply

    On 11/27/2018 at 6:08 AM, manholt said:

    Are they original sensor or after market...what brand?  #2 could mean passenger side or dual tire or in line!  What does the screen show, mine are on the Silverleaf and has a map for each tire/sensor.

    Thanks, it was the passenger side.

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