Using Class A Motorhome in Cold Weather

[thomwells]

We have a 2005 Phaeton, and it is all pretty new to us. The heat when switched to electric comes through the roof ar units, is that right?

It has a propane switch too, but we figure that will run out pretty quick parked in the driveway (we have a 50 amp service installed).

So we use a Lasko ceramic heater in the main coach and one in the back bedroom. Is that the best way to do it?

Also we had the motohome winterized, so we won't have any freeze problems and turned the refrigerator off. Of course when we go to the occasional weekend trip, we have to bring our own water, and not use the drains.

We plan on starting to go full time in the spring, and want to visit our daughter in Northern Minnesota which I think has one frost free day a year!

Any help and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thom and Ouarda Wells, presently at Mother in law's (help) in Tullahoma, TN. It has been below freezing here most of the month.

[NWJeeper]

Hi Thom,

Sounds like your doing just fine. We too keep a space heater or our electric fireplace going in our rig during the winter. As we don't usually see more than a few weeks at or below freezing we don't winterize much but keep heat in the areas where needed.

Does your rig have tank heaters? If so you don't need to worry much about water in the holding tanks as they will keep them from freezing (or should). If temps drop below freezing for us we turn on the tank heaters and I have strung a set of normal rope lights around in the plumbing compartment outside the rig to insure that those pipes have heat.

As we use our rig year round as the urge hits us we don't use anti-freeze in the lines but instead will blow them free using compressed air if I really feel it needs to be done. I can't stand the anti-freeze in the lines for the pain in the butt it presents to flush it all clear when you want to use your rig again. However a little down the drains is just fine.

I think if it were me though I would plan to start my full timing career in Arizona where it was warm and slowly move north as things warm up hitting MN in the later part of summer after the snows are gone and the bugs have diminished.

Have a great time and take care....

[garykd]

Hi thomwells,

Welcome to the FMCA forum. For me, I do not leave any portable heaters running unless someone is in the coach. Consider an extend-a-stay addition to your propane system. Go to http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/lp-gas/50525.htm to see an example of an extend-a-stay. I have this product and use additional bottles of propane when we are parked for a while and need the furnace.

[wolfe10]

Since it is winterized now (all tanks and lines drained and RV antifreeze used/lines blown out, water heater drained, etc), there is no need for heat right now.

The issue will be when you use it. If potable water system remains drained, the only issue will be your holding tanks. Check with Tiffin, as many times the propane furnaces are also ducted into the tank basement area. Normally, space heaters/roof A/C's do NOT keep the tank area from freezing.

Brett Wolfe

[tbutler]

Thom and Ouarda, welcome to the full time lifestyle, enjoy the journey.

Once you go full time, you can use the propane heat on a regular basis as you'll be out moving around and can pick up propane on the road as you move from one place to another. We use electric space heaters to warm a room that is a little cool but never leave them on or even plugged in when we leave the coach. Propane heating is our normal heat. We'll occasionally use electric heat pumps if the propane is running low and the temperatures aren't too cold. Our propane heater has heat vents in the floor and the ductwork then also warm the compartments below. If you are in doubt about how effective this is in your coach, put a thermometer in the compartments with water and waste tanks.

The roof heat pumps are great for medium cool weather but when it gets really cold, the propane heat is much more efficient. In most coaches the electric heat units are the heat pumps which double as air conditioners. Some roof units are air conditioners which have electric heating elements rather than being heat pumps. You should be able to check your owners manual for information about your units. If you can't find the information in your owners manual, check the roof unit manufacturers web site. Look up the model in your coach and it will be described there. If your unit has heat strips instead of being a heat pump its efficiency won't be affected by the outside temperature though its output may not be sufficient to keep up with the heating demands of cold weather.

If I were you, I'd wait until late May or early June to head for Minnesota. The weather there really is warm at the right time. Watch the weather trends and travel accordingly. We've spent lots of time in Canada and found it quite comfortable through late spring, summer and early fall - most of the time!

[thomwells]

Thanks for the great suggestions, we are going to add the propane auxillary and when it gets warmer take out the winterizing stuff. We called Tiffin and indeed you are all correct, it has heating below to keep everything ok, and I am going to heat wrap any pipes that look like they might freeze.

And best of all follow your advice and head to warmer climes until Spring springs...... This sure is going to be fun, and I really appreciate all your help.

Now if I can just figure a good way to put the tandem kayak on the roof and get it up and down from there.... It seems to me that you either have to be rich to have this kind of freedom or pretty poor. We are in the pretty poor category, but we are sure blessed with family and friends.

Thanks everybody,

Thom and Ouarda and Miss Emma our Jack Russell

[garykd]

Hi Thom,

Is there a way for you to put the kayak on top of the towed car? Go to http://www.sit-on-topkayaking.com/TopKayak...&cPath=6_27 for some ideas. In addition, if you GOOGLE "tandem kayak transport", I guarantee you get some ideas. I didn't know there were so many ways to carry a tandem kayak.

[thomwells]

We took your advice and went out and got a Yakima Kayak mount for our KIA. So that is where the kayak will go. Now if I can just get my wife Ouarda to paddle all the time so I can fish without having to stop. Any idea's on how to talk her into that?

Well, I suppose I could help out a little....

[springtimeontheroad@gmail.com]

You may want to consider the cost of using electric heat versus propane. We have recently had a few very cold days in the 30's with a couple of nights in the 20's. At that temperature our electric heat pump will not work and we've had to use our propane furnace. Using our propane for heat, we noticed that our propane supply lasts about 2 weeks at the cost of about $27 to $30 per fill up. In the past when we used our electric heat for our needs and had large electric bills, generally $100 to $120 per month. If you have both, you may want to test out each system for the best cost efficiency.

Best wishes for your full timing. We have been on the road now for 2 years and have no intentions of settling down. It is the best lifestyle.

[wolfe10]

You may want to consider the cost of using electric heat versus propane. We have recently had a few very cold days in the 30's with a couple of nights in the 20's. At that temperature our electric heat pump will not work and we've had to use our propane furnace. Using our propane for heat, we noticed that our propane supply lasts about 2 weeks at the cost of about $27 to $30 per fill up. In the past when we used our electric heat for our needs and had large electric bills, generally $100 to $120 per month. If you have both, you may want to test out each system for the best cost efficiency.

Best wishes for your full timing. We have been on the road now for 2 years and have no intentions of settling down. It is the best lifestyle.

A good point. But be if temperatures are below freezing and the water systems are not winterized, be sure to verify that you have some means of heating the wet bay (basement) . Propane furnaces generally have a vent into the basement (again verify). The use of a safe electric heater in the coach will likely keep you warm, but NOT heat the basement.

Brett

[pjogrinc@msn.com]

We live in northern MN and fully understand your concern. We sent 3 + years full timing, wintering over in Boise, ID. We use to spend New Years at Bruneau Dunes state park about 70 miles south of Boise. Temps ran 0 to 20 above. What worked for us, then and now, was the Extend-a-Stay propane hookup. On our Monaco, the LP heat (floor) also ducks some air into the compartments. Easy way to tell is to put a thermometer (remote sensing or sensor makes it real nice for monitoring) in the water/tank compartment and run your LP heat for several hours or until the coach internal temp comes up to normal, then go check the thermometer. Even with our LP set at the lowest setting, our water compartment stays at 40 degrees. If we supplement our LP heating at the lowest setting with 2 ceramic electric heaters (set at low, 750 watt setting) our water compartment temp drops to 35 degrees.

To help keep the water compartment/tanks from freezing, most of which need to be done during warm temps, you can try the following:

1. Get canned foam insullation and spray around any exposed water lines out side the basement if any, watch for lines that might run between compartments in the basement.

2. Put water line foam tubing on any and all of your water lines. This definately helped on the hot water line year round. You don't have to wait for the hot water at the facets!

4. Line outside or inside (whichever is the easiest) of the water/tank compartment with the blue sheet foam. This is used under concrete flooring and around the outside of concrete foundations.

5. Heat tape that has temperature sensors. Wrap your lines or on smaller ones, tape the heat tape to the bottom of the line and secure with the good old duck tape. Make sure you read the manufactures instructions. You don't need this on very often, you can watch the outside temps as compared to the water compartment/tank temperature. Any outside water feed lines will need to have heat tape anyway.

6. If you keep water in your tank, keep it at least 1/4 full as it holds heat better. On the gray and black water tanks, drain and then allow to fillup, then drain as required. Again, the fuller they are the more they hold the heat. Drain your tanks as required and lift your sewerline so as to drain all the water out into the sewer. If you are going to be using a lot of water, like a shower, drain your black water, then your gray water and leave the valve open. Shower water does a good job of flushing and removing any ice from the sewer line for you. Then close the valve.

7. When traveling, you have to worry about the lines freezing as you usually do not have the LP heat on. This is the only time we had a freeze up. Just one of those things that we did not consider. Took a couple of hours with heat tape to unthaw. If you do freeze up, start unthawing as soon as possible and thaw out slowly or you will crack lines. Water/Ice occupies the most volume when near 32 degrees.

If any of this helps, great. If not, food for thought for others.

[frankriley]

We have a 2005 Phaeton, and it is all pretty new to us. The heat when switched to electric comes through the roof ar units, is that right?

It has a propane switch too, but we figure that will run out pretty quick parked in the driveway (we have a 50 amp service installed).

So we use a Lasko ceramic heater in the main coach and one in the back bedroom. Is that the best way to do it?

Also we had the motohome winterized, so we won't have any freeze problems and turned the refrigerator off. Of course when we go to the occasional weekend trip, we have to bring our own water, and not use the drains.

We plan on starting to go full time in the spring, and want to visit our daughter in Northern Minnesota which I think has one frost free day a year!

Any help and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thom and Ouarda Wells, presently at Mother in law's (help) in Tullahoma, TN. It has been below freezing here most of the month.

[rv4jesus@yahoo.com]

I also have a Phaeton.

One of the often overlook points to winterizing or heating is the water supply line to the ice maker.

If your unit has an icemaker and you are storing the unit don't forget to drain that line.

When in operation most of these units have a heat wire that runs inside the sheath that contains the water supply line and a small heat tape piece that wraps the solenoid.

Many of us also place a 25W light bulb inside the refer. access panel on the outside for a heat source when stationary in cold weather.

Good Luck