Norcold Refrigerators--Fire Hazard

[hobochet]

My Norcold Refrigerator signaled "no co", I turned it off and back on, it ran for several hours and "no co" came on again. I went out and took the vent cover off, saw "lime-green" residue, AMMONIA. Called Norcold of course my refrigerator was not on a recall. Talked to a man in Indiana he had a new cooling unit for $900.00. Talked to **** Albritton RV about installing a Residential Refrigerator. I found a Whirlpool 21 cubic foot that would fit where to Norcold was. I now have frozen ice cream, not soup like in the Norcold. More important I eliminated a FIRE HAZARD. Friends lost their motorhome 2 years ago due to a Refrigerator caused fire. I helped put out a MH fire in Florida last March caused by a Refrigerator. The adjuster that investigated that fire had 3 more to go to. I have RVed since 1965, have had Gas/Electric Refrigerators with no problem. The last 4 or 5 years there has been a lot of fires caused by leaking ammonia. They must be making the refrigerators cheaper, because they are not holding up like the older ones. **** Albritton installed 2 residential refrigerators this week, including his own.

[Guest BillAdams]

Congratulations on your RR purchase. You will soon wonder how you ever got along without it! We have a GE profile in our coach with water and ice through the door and a HUGE ice bin. We simply can't run out of ice even when we fill our drink cooler 5 or 6 days in a row. There's nothing like a frozen Manhattan glass filled with standard ice cubes when 5 o'clock rolls around. Did I mention that I have not had to defrost my RR/freezer in over 10 years? Anyone with a propane fridge want to try to compete with that?

[Frankturman]

I would like to know the model of Norcold you have and the model number of the residential refrigerator you are talking about replacing it with. I have been having problems with my Norcold and am thinking about replacing it with a all electric model which would eliminate the problems with the gas electric models. I currently have a Norcold 1210 series and have had nothing but problems with this fridge. It does not freeze to the temps I expect and I have replaced the cooling unit once and am looking at needing to replace it again in two plus years of use. We are full timers and only dry camp at rallies. For the cost I think we could do much better with an all electric type with out all of the hassles and cost of the gas electric type.

[Toony]

Just would like to know how you keep your food cold while traveling down the road...I for one do not have a generator...so without propane use I am lost !

[wolfe10]

Toony,

Welcome to the FMCA Forum.

All electric coaches/coaches with electric refrigerators have an additional "layer of complexity" to their electrical systems that allow the refrigerator to run without the generator running full time:

Large house battery bank-- minimum of 440 amp-hr and generally more.

Large enough inverter that it can run the appliances at under 80% of inverter capacity. Most are true sine wave inverters which are more "appliance friendly" than modified sine wave.

Many of these coaches have very high output alternators-- 190 amp or more to maintain battery charge while driving and using the inverter to power electrical appliances.

Many have auto-generator start to automatically start the generator when house battery voltage a preset voltage.

Brett

[Frankturman]

I still would like to know who makes the household type of fridge and what model numbers are used so I can research the sizes and loads. I do have a coach that would be capable of supporting the load on the DC system so that is not a problem.

[pweaver123@gmail.com]

I recently replaced my Norcold 1200 with a Whirlpool residential refrigerator. I did the work myself and thought many of you might enjoy reading our Blog report on the replacement.

See it here: http://wheresweaver.blogspot.com/2010_09_23_archive.html

I'm doing the install in a couple of phases. The refrigerator was the first phase. My next step is to get a pure sine wave inverter installed. Then eventually replace the batteries. Wish I could have done all the phases at once but....$$$$$$$

I actually found the replacement easy. Everything seemed to go as planned and we're enjoying the RR.

Paul

http://www.wheresweaver.blogspot.com

[jseddy@windstream.net]

Just would like to know how you keep your food cold while traveling down the road...I for one do not have a generator...so without propane use I am lost !

I'VE ENJOYED THE USE OF MY RESIDENTIAL FRIDGE FOR SEVERAL YEARS AND THINK IT'S GREAT. HOW TO KEEP COLD RUNNING ON DOWN THE ROAD...

WELL, THE TRUTH IS, ASSUMING YOU HAVE A GOOD DOOR SEAL, IF YOU DON'T OPEN THE FRIDGE DOOR, IT WON'T LOSE BUT A COUPLE DEGREES DURING A 4 OR 5 HOUR TRIP. I'VE NEVER HAD ICE CUBES START TO MELT OR FOOD START THAWING OUT. IT WORKS FOR US.

[elkhartjim]

Is it possible to remove the Norcold through the entry door?

[wolfe10]

Is it possible to remover the Norcold through the entry door?

Depends on the door width, maneuvering room, etc.

First call I would make is to your coach maker to see if they can tell you.

Second choice would be to post complete information on your coach, floorplan, etc. Perhaps someone else with the same coach has already addressed that issue.

On many newer coaches, the refrigerator has to come out by removing a window or even the windshield. "Bigger is Better" has its drawbacks!

Brett

[crossgj]

My Norcold Refrigerator signaled "no co", I turned it off and back on, it ran for several hours and "no co" came on again. I went out and took the vent cover off, saw "lime-green" residue, AMMONIA. Called Norcold of course my refrigerator was not on a recall. Talked to a man in Indiana he had a new cooling unit for $900.00. Talked to **** Albritton RV about installing a Residential Refrigerator. I found a Whirlpool 21 cubic foot that would fit where to Norcold was. I now have frozen ice cream, not soup like in the Norcold. More important I eliminated a FIRE HAZARD. Friends lost their motorhome 2 years ago due to a Refrigerator caused fire. I helped put out a MH fire in Florida last March caised by a Refrigerator. The adjustor that investigated that fire had 3 more to go to. I have RVed since 1965, have had Gas/Electric Refrigerators with no problem. The last 4 or 5 years there has been a lot of fires caused by leaking ammonia. They must be making the refrigerators cheaper, because they are not holding up like the older ones. **** Albritton installed 2 residential refrigerators this week, including his own.

We have installed a residential refrigerator and love it. I am interested in ideas others are using to secure the doors while traveling. We have used an extension rod between the door and our cabinet. I works fine but we would prefer a more elegant solution. Any ideas?

[ervtroyer]

Two years ago we started on a trip to Missouri, and the first day out we smelled ammonia in the Dometic fridge. We made the rest of the trip with coolers and ice, and when we returned home I started looking for a replacement. I had formerly worked for Dometic in their Service Dept. so I knew a lot about absorption units, and I decided to get away from these. We have a 2000 watt inverter and a 255 amp/hour house battery, and we rerely dry camp, so I knew we had the means to run a house type refrigerator.

I ended up getting the Frigidaire model FRT045GB, a 6 cu. ft model, which fit nicely into the same cabinet. I paid about 1/2 of what it would cost to repair the cooling unit, and about 1/4 what a new fridge would cost. We are very happy with it, and it works very well - cools MUCH faster than the absorption types. I have closed off the roof and side vents as the unit is ventilated to the inside of the coach. I replaced the side vent with a baggage door to give us some storage behind the reefer. I have posted pictures of my installation at: http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5264

Our inverter has a modified square wave output, and the fridge draws almost twice the normal amps when running off the inverter, but it seems to work just fine. I would suggest that you consider the true sine wave inverters if you plan to go this route.

Erv Troyer

Lagrange, IN

[pweaver123@gmail.com]

Sorry I haven't gotten back on make and model of RR.....we were traveling.

I installed the Whirpool, side by side, 21.6 cuft refrigerator with the stainless steel finish and water and ice in the door. Model #ED2GVEXVDO1. As I understand from installers in Red Bay, AL where Tiffins are manufactured, this is the largest, best fit available. They've had good success with this refrigerator. As noted in my blog, we purchased the RR at Lowes. They even helped deliver it INSIDE my motorhome!

I need more study on the inverter/battery issue before I move forward. I want to get with someone familiar with these electronics before deciding what to do. Do I go with AGM's, increase the number of batteries, get a dedicated pure sine wave inverter for the fridgeor replace my existing modified inverter, will there be charging issues while traveling???? These are all issues I'm investigating.

We've been pleased with the performance of the frige remaining cold while traveling. We've found we can easily travel 6 hours without significant warming of the freezer or refrigerator box. Although, it is a problem if we boondock (without electric overnight).... we need to run the generator several times a day. We don't boondock that much, but would like to be able to, on occasion.

Again, check out our blog if you are interested in reading about the install and seeing pictures. I have enjoyed sharing our RR project. Although it was a maintenance issue I would have like to avoid, we are so pleased with our new refrigerator.

Thanks for your interest

Paul Weaver

www.wheresweaver.blogspot.com

[wolfe10]

I need more study on the inverter/battery issue before I move forward. I want to get with someone familiar with these electronics before deciding what to do. Do I go with AGM's, increase the number of batteries, get a dedicated pure sine wave inverter for the refrigerator replace my existing modified inverter, will there be charging issues while traveling???? These are all issues I'm investigating.

Paul Weaver

www.wheresweaver.blogspot.com

Paul,

Let's start dissecting some of these issues, as they will be applicable to many considering changing from absorption to residential refrigeration.

Battery bank size and type: This largely depends on how long you want to be able to run without shore power or generator on (i.e. run the refrigerator off the battery bank through an inverter). In the equation, remember that for long battery life you do not want to discharge below 50% AND that while dry camping it is not "cost efficient" in terms of generator run time to get the batteries to full charge. For most, 440 amp hrs is a bare minimum, with more being desirable, particularly if you want to be able to run overnight without recharging.

Yes, AGM's offer advantages over wet cell batteries. One of the more important is that their low internal resistance means they can be charged at a much higher rate (amps) for reduced generator run time. Other advantages including no maintenance and no out-gassing except under extreme overcharging. That does not mean I would recommend automatically replacing a perfectly good wet cell bank of adequate size in good condition.

Not sure there is a compelling reason for dedicated vs larger "whole house" inverter and battery bank. I would go with a pure-sine inverter/charger for both better quality of power (vs modified sine wave) and quality 3-4 stage charger. A larger "whole house" inverter/high amp charger often offers faster battery recharging (higher amp charger built in), so I would look at that closely unless you have reason to go with a dedicated separate battery bank for the refrigerator. And since it is better in terms of battery life to have a larger battery bank that you discharge less deeply (vs smaller dedicated bank that is more deeply discharged to provide the same number of amp-hrs of power to the inverter and refrigerator), I would lean toward running the larger inverter/refrigerator from a larger single battery bank.

Charging issues while traveling really boil down to what size alternator you have (expressed in amps) and whether you are expecting the alternator to recharge discharged batteries or just maintain them (i.e. start with them mostly recharged).

Remember, most alternators, particularly in rear engine applications do not have very good cooling. And the more amps you ask from them the hotter they run. So it is not a good idea to count on the engine driven alternator to both charge a discharged large battery bank and maintain sufficient amps to run the residential refrigerator while driving.

As a side note for those who DO push their alternators hard, it is a good idea to do a preventive overhaul on the alternator (bearings and brushes) at around 1500 engine hours/80,000 miles. Lots cheaper and more convenient than waiting for the alternator to seize up.

Brett Wolfe

[pweaver123@gmail.com]

Thanks Brett. Your reply sure makes a lot of sense. I especially find the re-charging with the alternator interesting. We should have batteries charged before hitting the road and would only ask alternator to replace lost battery volts used to run refrigerator while traveling. Would this work?

Thanks again.

I'm new here and learning my way!

Paul

[wolfe10]

Thanks Brett. Your reply sure makes a lot of sense. I especially find the re-charging with the alternator interesting. We should have batteries charged before hitting the road and would only ask alternator to replace lost battery volts used to run refrigerator while traveling. Would this work?

Thanks again.

I'm new here and learning my way!

Paul

Paul,

It should work fine as long as the alternator is large enough (expressed in amps) to handle normal functions (engine, dash HVAC fan, lights, etc) as well as the load of the refrigerator.

And there is no fine line that says the battery bank has to be XX% charged before using the alternator to complete the recharging. But, clearly, not frequently overheating the alternator by asking to provide max amps much of its life will materially extend its life.

Brett

[Hanksmith]

We often dry camp. I can't see a full sized all electric fridge. If you go to many National parks, state parks, federal lands etc. you have set generator hours that you can operate it, an auto-start isn't going to cut it. Also, all those extra batts and weight and a special inverter? We go to see nature and our National parks and National Monuments. We don't like destination parks, either. In Denali in Alaska, you have to go in for a minimum of 3days, no hook ups, 1 hour gen 2 times a day. We have a 36 ft MH and we are often on the road 2-4 months at a time. If you have to have all the conveniences of home, why go? As Americans we have really gotten soft. The safety I understand, but don't try to sell me on the convenience.

Besides if you have over 40 footer, you can't get in most of the National Parks, monuments, state parks and other federal parks.

[pweaver123@gmail.com]

Yeah, Hanksmith, you wouldn't want one!

[dennis.l@mccanna.ws]

I have reviewed several installations of residential refrigerators and noticed that there is no mention of the outside vents. I have to assume that they have been blocked off or the MH will be sucking in outside air from the vents.

Were they blocked off?

[pweaver123@gmail.com]

I blocked my outside vent using duct tape. I later felt air venting out the back when I was checking things in the outside access panel. I then removed about a third of the tape in the area where I felt the air.