Dead Batteries And Starting Fresh

[JNesselroad3]

Hello everyone,

Great information regarding coach maintenance. I thank you for your great advice. I've learned much by just reading old topics/posts.

Here's my situation:

2007 Winnebago 32K with continually dead batteries. I've done everything wrong- parasite loads leeching off batteries; 2 weeks between drives, charge them up and they last a few days then even with main power switch off they gradually decay. I've got 2 kids who help with the parasitic loads by leaving lights on, stuff plugged in the 12V. (I'm only occasionally kidding about their parasitic loads. Ha!) I've checked volt meter and now bad cells are problem, too. I'm replacing the batteries, but want to do an upgrade to a more sustainable system

Here's a fun option- Money is no problem. Where do I start and where do I finish?

1) Chassis battery and alternator?

2) Batteries for the coach?

3) inverter for shore line and generator?

4) Solar trickle charger?

5) kill switches at key points in the system?

If you put a 'best options' plan together, I'll put it in the coach during the winter down time.

Ultimate use of the coach is 15 2-3 day trips across the Midwest for golf, quick vacations each summer. Some are dry camping WalMarts with generator. Others are @ county campgrounds with 30 amp service. We do a few 1 week trips but those always have 30amp service at destinations. Its got to be able to survive 10-14 days parked between rides.

Final question, would putting a 30amp outlet at home and plugging in be a good option, too? How would I do inverter/charger and set up in that scenario?

Thanks for the great advice- Jamie Nesselroad

[wolfe10]

Jamie,

Welcome to the FMCA Forum.

1) Chassis battery : These are your start batteries. Best (OE equipment on Foretravel, etc) are 12 VDC Optima Sprial batteries wired in parallel. Largest that will fit. If not Optimas, starting battery are used vs deep cycle batteries.

2) Alternator: Other than verifying that it is charging, I wouldn't spend money on this.

3) Batteries for the coach: OK, these are referred to as house batteries. Best batteries are AGM's such as http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/

What size and number really depends on two things-- how much room you have and how much dry camping you do where you will be living off the batteries to power 12 VDC appliances and use of the inverter to power 120 VAC appliances off the batteries between running the generator to power the converter, charger or inverter/charger to recharge the batteries. Certainly room and added weight are considerations as well as cost.

4) Inverter: Or inverter/charger-- really depends on largest load you plan to run on the inverter and whether the appliances will run on MSW (modified sine wave) or require a sine wave inverter. The larger the inverter/charger, generally the higher the amp output of the charger section. If your coach already has one, let us know what you have.

5) Shore line: Not sure of the question here. Is your coach 30 amp or 50 amp shore power?

6) Generator: Again, not sure of the question-- what generator do you have and what is the question.

7) Solar trickle charger: The need for a solar powered trickle charger depends on whether you have shore power available where you store the coach. Let us know that one and we can advise.

8) Kill switches at key points in the system: Again, depends on what means you have of keeping the batteries charged while in storage. Let us know the answer to whether you have shore power where you store it and we can better address your particular situation.

Brett

[JNesselroad3]

Hello Brett,

Here's what I know-

The coach has a Parallax 7400 Series Converter/battery charger (manual says its set at a nominal 13.8 volts output for battery charging)

The coach is a 30 amp.

I can place an outlet and plug the coach in between trips (sounds like that would be an option vs. solar power type charger)

I intend to run the generator for 120v electrical power when dry camping

I don't have an inverter that produces 120v from the batteries. If that's an option, i would have to get one and install.

I have had friends tell me the AGM battery or the Optima battery are best. Further, i should get a battery maintenance device in the coach that is more fucntional than the basic parallax converter I know have. Spending the money on great batteries i should invest in a system to keep them at top performance and max life use.

Does any of that help?

Jamie

[wolfe10]

Jamie,

The Parallax 7400 Series Converter is indeed an obsolete converter. It was made in 30-65 amp configurations. I would not invest in new, expensive batteries without updating this to a smart charger or inverter/charger. Said another way, replacing it would be a wise investment.

I can't give advice on whether you should spend the money on an inverter or inverter/charger. Several factors to make a considered decision: How much of the time do you want to be able to run low amp 120 VAC appliances from the batteries (i.e. delay need to run the generator which will need to be run to recharge the batteries)? How large is your battery bank (i.e. how large an inverter could it reasonably support). While quite a few do have an inverter, many don't or have only a small one to run just a TV, etc. And how much money do you want to spend and how much weight (extra batteries, inverter,etc) on this. We don't even know if you have a gas coach that is near its weight capacity or a DP with 2,000 pounds of reserve weight capacity.

And, if you can have 120 VAC shore power where you store the coach, DO IT. Particularly after you get a smart charger (or decide to go with an inverter/charger) you can leave the coach plugged in 24/7 to maintain the batteries. With your present converter, that would likely overcharge the batteries if left plugged in 24/7. A reasonable answer, using your present converter, is to go to a Home Depot, etc and get a HD/20 amp timer. Set it to run the converter 1-2 hours a day-- enough to keep the batteries up, but not overcharge them.

You will also have to determine if your coach is wired to charge the chassis battery when plugged in. Many coaches don't. So you will need to add a Trick L Start or Echo charger to keep up that battery bank.

Yes, independent of the monetary consideration, my personal opinion ( and what we have in our coach) are Lifeline AGM house batteries and Optima starting batteries.

[JNesselroad3]

Thank you Brett,

I'll be putting 30 amp service out to the coach storage.

I'll be buying batteries per your recommendations.

Regarding the smart charger vs inverter/charger, what questions do I have to answer to make a good choice? then, what is your recommendation for equipment?

Again, cost is not a problem as I'll be driving this coach about 15 trips of 2-3 days length for the next 5 years.

[wolfe10]

Be sure your electrician knows that the 30 amp service you are having installed is 30 amp 120 VAC, NOT 30 amp 240 VAC. Said another way, there is ONE hot, a neutral and a ground.

As far as whether to go with an inverter/charger instead of just a smart charger really depends on your needs. Some people wouldn't go without an inverter, others, like myself don't have one (other than a small one to run the TV or computer). As I posted earlier, depends on how much/many 120 VAC low amperage appliances (i.e. not roof A/C's, etc) you desire to run while not on shore power, your coach's ability to handle the extra weight of a large enough battery bank to achieve this and your determination of the break-even between these costs and that of running your generator a few more hours.

Brett

[JNesselroad3]

Looking through AGM's website, it takes a ton of batteries to provide AC power for any length of time. (In an analogy, due to northern Illinois ice storms my wife and I put in an alternate power supply for our home. A battery solar powered battery bank and inverter unit was far more expensive and took an entire room in the basement vs. an on demand generator running off our spare LP) I think our RV is in the same situation where I would run the generator for electrical and use coach batteries for the 12V system. I think the smart charger and 2-3 coach batteries would be sufficient for our needs. There are very few times we are traveling in the RV without the generator powering the AC.

[w6pea]

I have read your post and wolfe10's replies I agree with everything he has stated.

I would suggest if you have not yet looked or decided where to purchase your AGM batteries I would look at http://www.trojanbattery.com/ for batteries. They also make AGM batteries.

Edited December 11, 2011 by wolfe10

[JNesselroad3]

OK, final question. whats the best battery charger/tender/maintainer that I can get for this application:

1) Coach shore line plugged in to 30 amp

2) New AGM batteries, 2-3 for the coach and 1 for the chassis

3) Obsolete converter replaced with ________ ?

[wolfe10]

I don't have a single "this is the only one to get":

Features you want:

3 stage charger (bulk, absorption and float).

Setting for battery technology (wet cell, AGM or gel) helpful, but with AGM's not a requirement.

If you don't do a lot of dry camping, a 40 amp smart charger is large enough. If you do a lot of dry camping (i.e. you run your generator just to charge the batteries), bigger is better.

A charge with dual output is a plus-- it can independently charger both house and chassis batteries. This is not a requirement, as you can use an Echo charger, solenoid or Trik L Charger to charge the chassis battery.

Look for these features and you will be happy with the results.

[jontwork]

I have no idea what your battery bank consists of as far as capacity but it is obvious that for real enjoyment of your motorhome, no matter where you are, is to:

1. Determine what physical space you have for batteries as far as length and width and SPECIFICALLY the height. Determine the amphour capacity of the existing set of coach batteries and see what you need to do to increase it by at least 4X or more. More is better. Much more is better yet. You need to install the tallest deep cycle batteries (i.e. L-16) you can find and fit into your determined battery space. You may have to really research where you can put additional batteries. The engine start batteries should be independant of your coach batteries and not counted into the mix.

2. Install as many solar panels as you can on your available roof space. You can use different sized panels to maximize the number of panels you fit up there. Again as with batteries, more is better and many more is much, much better. With your crew, and life style, I would suggest at least 600 watts of panels. You will need to acquire and install a really good solar controller and use LARGE high quality wire to run from the panels to the controller and then to the battery. Make sure the controller is CLOSE to the batteries BUT, NOT in the same compartment. While you are doing it, install a separate adequate panel/controller just for the engine batteries.

3. Run some siamese red/black (www.powerwerx.com) 8 or 10ga wire (consult a wire size/capacity chart) to places where you would like to have 12 volts AND 110volts available on demand. Fuse both red and black at the batteries.

4. Install some of the 12 volt Powerwerx Anderson powerpole outlets in various needed locations.

5. Purchase some 150watt/250watt or 500 watts 12v/110v inverters. You can find them as low as $15each by doing your research. Size them to what ever wattage you need to operate your desired toys, products, etc... A Kill-O-Watt meter will help you ascertain the correct sized inverter. Be sure to put one on the main and auxillary TV sets. Most of the inverters have an On/Off indicator light but, you may want to incorporate a MUCH MORE visable accessory ligh (LED) be sure EVERYONE know the power is ON from ten feet away.....

6. Purchase all family members multiple sets of earbuds or headsets that work with ALL of the noise generating equipment. Make it a rule that no noise is allowed unless ALL family members are actively engaged in what is making noise. There are wireless headsets and earbuds that will work with most TV' and computer audio outputs. Invest in them if you need them and you will find bliss.

7. Make your coffee with a Melitta Number 6 coffee cone and filter into a 50oz Thermos Model 50 carafe and you will not need the **** generator early in the morning or anytime and the coffee will always be available and HOT.

8. If you don't have a propane oven in the rig, get one and then you won't have to be running the microwave for hours. It will be worth it.

At this point, you shouldn't have to care if you are plugged in or not and you won't need to run the generator unless you are using air conditioning. You and your neighbors will enjoy the life of silence and you won't have anyone suing you because they tripped over your shore power cord.

We have been fulltimers for 11 years and 98% of it is boondocking in nice natural places.

Enjoy.......

[cricard04]

Based on the fact you said you turned off the Main Power switch I might assume that your engine batteries are going dead and not the coach batteries. If so, I had a similar problem with my Winnebago Vectra; the engine batteries would be dead in about two weeks with the coach power turned off. There are parasitic loads on the engine batteries that eventually drain them unless you have a source to keep them charged. In my case, I added a little charging module that charges the engine batteries from the coach batteries. It seems Winnebago didn't think that was too important to install one in 2004; however, the newer coaches have this module I believe. The mini charger has a Winnebago part number and can be purchased on the web for about $50. With this mini charger installed my engine batteries never run down and the solar panel keeps the coach batteries charged. When I'm in Florida for the winter the coach sometimes sits for a couple months without being used and the batteries stay charged all that time.