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DBH

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  1. DBH

    Integrity -v- Small Print

    I wonder what the trade-in value of a 2017 American Eagle (without air-mattress) would be against a new Newmar?
  2. DBH

    Integrity -v- Small Print

    I hate the way they cheat clients by hiding behind the small-print They have stated, in no uncertain terms, that they are NOT going to provide an air-mattress unless I pay an extra $150..... crazy on a three quarter million dollar coach they nickel and dime for $150. I absolutely will NOT pay the $150. I would rather pay $250 and buy from somewhere else... BTW - interesting that you said Denver RV Mattress co.... I live South of Denver in Parker....
  3. I pointed out that they STILL show the air mattress as standard equipment in their 2018 model Eagle (on American Coach's website) and received the following response from Larry Rodgers (National Owner Relations Manager) “We failed to remove the description in the 2018 Brochure. We have a statement in all brochures “Prices, materials, design and specifications are subject to change without notice.” Larry did, however, offer to fit an Air-Mattress to the coach FOR AN EXTRA COST.... terrible ...a coach with a price tag of over $750,000 and they want to charge EXTRA for items they list as standard equipement!
  4. Did that - also pointed out that they STILL show the air mattress as standard equipment in their 2018 model Eagle (on American Coach's website) and received the following response from Larry Rodgers (National Owner Relations Manager) “We failed to remove the description in the 2018 Brochure. We have a statement in all brochures “Prices, materials, design and specifications are subject to change without notice.” Larry did, however, offer to fit an Air-Mattress to the coach FOR AN EXTRA COST.... terrible ...a coach with a price tag of over $750,000 and they want to charge EXTRA for items they list as standard equipement!
  5. Your right - I was irritated by the tone and lack of interest by Joy the rep I spoke with at AC. But I only became so after she said they could change whatever they liked without prior notice - so there was nothing she or AC would do about it. I even asked if that meant they could advertise the Eagle as having a 150 gallon diesel tank and substitute it with a 50 gallon one without telling any customer - she replied "yes, if we want to"! I contacted them through BBB: I received the following response from Larry Rodgers (National Owner Relations Manager) “We failed to remove the description in the 2018 Brochure. We have a statement in all brochures “Prices, materials, design and specifications are subject to change without notice.” Larry did, however, offer to fit an Air-Mattress to the coach FOR AN EXTRA COST.... terrible ...a coach with a price tag of over $750,000 and they want to charge EXTRA for items they list as standard equipement!
  6. I tried calling American Coach - I even contacted AC through BBB. I pointed out that all the literature and even their website stated that this is standard equipment .... I went so far as to point out that they are still showing the air-mattress as standard equipment on the 2018 model of the American Eagle.... I received the following response from Larry Rodgers (National Owner Relations Manager) “We failed to remove the description in the 2018 Brochure. We have a statement in all brochures “Prices, materials, design and specifications are subject to change without notice.” Larry did, however, offer to fit an Air-Mattress to the coach FOR AN EXTRA COST.... terrible ...a coach with a price tag of over $750,000 and they want to charge EXTRA for items they list as standard equipement!
  7. Did that - contacted BBB - also pointed out that they STILL show the air mattress as standard equipment in their 2018 model Eagle (on American Coach's website) and received the following response from Larry Rodgers (National Owner Relations Manager) “We failed to remove the description in the 2018 Brochure. We have a statement in all brochures “Prices, materials, design and specifications are subject to change without notice.” Larry did, however, offer to fit an Air-Mattress to the coach FOR AN EXTRA COST.... terrible ...a coach with a price tag of over $750,000 and they want to charge EXTRA for items they list as standard equipment!
  8. Did that - also pointed out that they STILL show the air mattress as standard equipment in their 2018 model Eagle (on American Coach's website) and received the following response from Larry Rodgers (National Owner Relations Manager) “We failed to remove the description in the 2018 Brochure. We have a statement in all brochures “Prices, materials, design and specifications are subject to change without notice.” Larry did, however, offer to fit an Air-Mattress to the coach FOR AN EXTRA COST.... terrible ...a coach with a price tag of over $750,000 and they want to charge EXTRA for items they list as standard equipement!
  9. Integrity -v- Small Print From a company perspective, what is more important; Integrity of the protection of the Small Print? Is it better for a company to do everything it reasonably can to keep a client happy – or should they seek the protection of the small print that lawyers add to documents? Let me give you an example: In the latter part of 2017 I purchased a Class A RV manufactured by American Coach. The model was the top of their range and called an American Eagle. Prior to purchase I conducted significant amount of research. I visited websites and went to dealerships to collect literature, I identified the things most important to me and through a process of elimination selected the coach I wanted to purchase. At an American Coach dealership in NM, found the model with the configuration (45A) that I wanted. It was brand new and at a price I thought was reasonable. I travelled to NM, looked over the coach, gave them a check for the full amount and drove away. Sometime later I found that the fold-away bed under the sofa did not have the air-mattress that was specified in all the literature and had been substituted by an extremely thin, uncomfortable mattress. Believing this was a simple error, I contacted the manufacturer, American Coach (AC) and explained that the air-mattress was missing. They told me they had decided not to fit the air-mattress to this particular coach, they were either unwilling or unable to tell me why they had made that substitution. I told them I thought this was unacceptable and they told me: “In the small print at the bottom of the back page of the brochure, it states that they can make any changes they wish without prior notice” I complained through BBB and first received a call offering to install an Air-Mattress into my coach for a ‘discounted price’ of $150…. So, they will fit one if I pay an extra $150! On a coach with a price tag of over $750,000! Seriously, an extra $150? I rejected that offer and received a response from Larry Rodgers (National Owner Relations Manager) in which he stated that they stopped putting air-mattresses in American Eagles in 2017. When I pointed out that their website still shows air-mattresses as standard equipment – even on the 2018 models…. Larry Rodgers responded with “We failed to remove the description in the 2018 Brochure. We have a statement in all brochures “Prices, materials, design and specifications are subject to change without notice." From a business stand point of view – they have created such bad feeling that I tell everyone about how I feel I got ripper-off by AC. Further, they have saved themselves a few hundred dollars, but ensured I will never buy anything else from this manufacturer… Remember, this coach had a price tag of over $750,000. So: Should AC have honored what they advertise (even at today’s date) as being standard equipment – or should they have retreated behind their legal small print protection? What do you believe was the right choice?
  10. Thanks - thats a good suggestion. But such a pity that we have to resort to the BBB when purchasing a coach with a price tag of $750,000! Really surprised that they took the view 'TOUGH, we can legally do this!' Kinda sets the feeling for future purchases for me!
  11. 5 months ago I purchased a new American Coach Eagle - the top of their line. When I took it in for a few small issues, a technician at their regional center noticed that the air mattress from the sofa bed was missing and had been replaced with a cheap thin substitute. NOTE - this is an American Coach employee. I contacted American Coach about the missing air mattress and was told they decided NOT to fit an air mattress to THIS particular coach (to be clear, not this model, not this year...THIS PARTICULAR COACH!) When I pointed out that the sales literature stated that ALL American Eagles come with an air mattress I was told.... "On the back page in small print is a disclaimer that says we can change the price, material or finishes with notice".... Seriously? I now have to get the brochure and check every item is installed. That's like looking at a brochure that says the vehicle comes with nav system - then finding they didn't bother to fit one on this one particular car. Appalling sharp practice - slippery language - and not what you should expect from a reputable manufacturer. You need to use extreme caution when buying an American Coach - and make sure they fitted everything that is in the brochure as a 'standard fitting'.... or you might just find they left out a few things and when you call them... well, guess what...... "your tough luck!"
  12. DBH

    Service - or Disservice?

    So this begs the question:...... What can we (as consumers) do about the appalling service? Perhaps we could get a register of service centers that are good, bad or just plain terrible? Maybe set-up a grading system where we grade the service we received ? My feeling is.... we have no choice because we allow ourselves to be ripped-off
  13. DBH

    Service - or Disservice?

    Thanks Bill I will, in future, take it to REV - since, although its a long trip, it will be way less frustrating. I am afraid I don't have pics of the windshield - never thought to take pics and I kinda assumed - if you have an issue with a 4 week old vehicle with an RRP of $770,000 ... the might, just might, fix the problem.... well, this isn't the first time I have been naive ! Such a pity - it such a great coach, wonderfully comfortable and great to drive.... but a third party dealer can cause such frustration that its easy to lose sight of the good things.
  14. Since retiring my wife and I decided we wanted to get out and see some of this amazing country -- so we decided we would consider RV'ing. I joined all the associations, read all about coaches: Manufacturers, Size of coach, Horsepower, equipment, reliability - even which Tow vehicle we would pull...... I did the research! We visited dealers around the country, looked at coaches, test-drove a bunch and settled on a new American Coach - Eagle 45A. Our first venture into 'the freedom-of-the-road'. We paid the money took delivery and really enjoyed the first few weeks..... that was until I encountered the only aspect I hadn't researched..... service (or lack of)! As with all vehicles of this complexity, there were some things that needed attention - many relatively minor and just needed adjusting - a couple very significant and making the Eagle unroadworthy .... specifically loose windshield that could be moved with simply pressure of the thumb and when using the windshield washer - the water came down inside the coach and ran down the back of the TV - due to the fact that the feeder-hoses had not been connected. So, I tried to get the items fixed.... wow, was I in for a surprise! My wife and I live South of Denver in Colorado.... we contacted the authorized service center closest to us.... they said it was a 4 week wait for service... so I booked the coach in... during the wait period they called me and said their bays were not big enough for a 45 ft ! I then spent 3 looking for alternative service centers... after communications with American Coach we were left with Lazydays in Loveland, CO.... They quoted SIX weeks before they could book it in - no choice, right - so book it in I did. I gave the rep on the phone a list of the work required, she told me it would take three weeks to do the work.... three weeks! But, no choice, right? When the appointed day arrived, i delivered the coach to Lazydays and went through the list of work with the service rep that booked in the coach. I confirmed I would pick it up in 3 weeks - all was set, all was agreed, all was good..... not! After three weeks I contacted Lazydays to find out they had not, in their words, "completed as much of the work as they would have liked"..... Actually - to be accurate - they had completed exactly NONE of the work! Not one item - Nothing! They invited me to take the coach, and book it back in when the parts arrived from American Coach.... They could not, or would not, give me a date when that might be. I explained that with a loose windshield and no ability to clean the windshield while driving, I didn't think the coach was roadworthy - they agreed but followed up with "nothing we can do, the manufacturer hasn't approved the warranty work and we don't have the parts!" So, a little frustrated with American Coach for being so unresponsive - I called A/C customer service..... Lazydays had not even contacted the manufacturer! The rep from A/C said she would call Lazydays to see if she could help... she did, they said they could get the windshield and washer fixed.... but it would take another week, seriously? So, the point of this post? Is this normal for this industry? Do you/we really put up with being lied to and intentionally mislead? Dont the manufacturers realize that their authorized repair centers reflect badly on them? If I were asked by a friend if they should buy a motorhome, I would say "NO - not unless you want to be frustrated, lied to and wonder why you paid so much money for a vehicle you cant enjoy due to the appalling service provided!"
  15. Since retiring my wife and I decided we wanted to get out and see some of this amazing country -- so we decided we would consider RV'ing. I joined all the associations, read all about coaches: Manufacturers, Size of coach, Horsepower, equipment, reliability - even which Tow vehicle we would pull...... I did the research! We visited dealers around the country, looked at coaches, test-drove a bunch and settled on a new American Coach - Eagle 45A. Our first venture into 'the freedom-of-the-road'. We paid the money took delivery and really enjoyed the first few weeks..... that was until I encountered the only aspect I hadn't researched..... service (or lack of)! As with all vehicles of this complexity, there were some things that needed attention - many relatively minor and just needed adjusting - a couple very significant and making the Eagle unroadworthy .... specifically loose windshield that could be moved with simply pressure of the thumb and when using the windshield washer - the water came down inside the coach and ran down the back of the TV - due to the fact that the feeder-hoses had not been connected. So, I tried to get the items fixed.... wow, was I in for a surprise! My wife and I live South of Denver in Colorado.... we contacted the authorized service center closest to us.... they said it was a 4 week wait for service... so I booked the coach in... during the wait period they called me and said their bays were not big enough for a 45 ft ! I then spent 3 looking for alternative service centers... after communications with American Coach we were left with Lazydays in Loveland, CO.... They quoted SIX weeks before they could book it in - no choice, right - so book it in I did. I gave the rep on the phone a list of the work required, she told me it would take three weeks to do the work.... three weeks! But, no choice, right? When the appointed day arrived, i delivered the coach to Lazydays and went through the list of work with the service rep that booked in the coach. I confirmed I would pick it up in 3 weeks - all was set, all was agreed, all was good..... not! After three weeks I contacted Lazydays to find out they had not, in their words, "completed as much of the work as they would have liked"..... Actually - to be accurate - they had completed exactly NONE of the work! Not one item - Nothing! They invited me to take the coach, and book it back in when the parts arrived from American Coach.... They could not, or would not, give me a date when that might be. I explained that with a loose windshield and no ability to clean the windshield while driving, I didn't think the coach was roadworthy - they agreed but followed up with "nothing we can do, the manufacturer hasn't approved the warranty work and we don't have the parts!" So, a little frustrated with American Coach for being so unresponsive - I called A/C customer service..... Lazydays had not even contacted the manufacturer! The rep from A/C said she would call Lazydays to see if she could help... she did, they said they could get the windshield and washer fixed.... but it would take another week, seriously? So, the point of this post? Is this normal for this industry? Do you/we really put up with being lied to and intentionally mislead? Dont the manufacturers realize that their authorized repair centers reflect badly on them? If I were asked by a friend if they should buy a motorhome, I would say "NO - not unless you want to be frustrated, lied to and wonder why you paid so much money for a vehicle you cant enjoy due to the appalling service provided!"
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