2011 Fleetwood Storm 28': Marker Lights Question

[Aircherokee]

Hello everyone,

I have a 2011 Fleetwood Storm 28' with the Ford F53 chassis.  We bought "Stormy" (as my kids nicknamed her) with 6,300 miles, now have 14,000 on it.  My electrical issue came on only in the last 4,000 miles and about five months ago (trying to give some context). 

My running (marker) lamps are now shorting out with no rhyme or reason why.  Here's the scenario.

If I have my motorhome sitting with either the marker or the marker/headlights turned on, all lights work perfectly and ALL marker lights will remain on indefinitely.

As soon as I start the engine, it takes about three minutes before the 20a fuse blows and the markers go out.  Headlights, brake lights, turn signals all work fine, just the markers go out.

I've read posts regarding pulling each light to isolate, that along with isolating the rear wiring harness from the front wiring harness, but haven't tried it yet since they all work fine with the engine turned off.

Any help or insight would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Ken

 

 

[wolfe10]

Ken,

What does the 20 amp fuse supply-- only clearance lights? Since everything else works, that is first speculation.  But 20 amps is either for other circuits as well (very likely) OR, if only for clearance lights DOES indicate a real problem-- they should not draw anywhere near that much.

Yes, water in a clearance light or bare positive wire to chassis metal could be causing a dead short.  But, that should cause the fuse to trip when engine is off, as well as when on.

Color me puzzled.

[manholt]

Quote

As soon as I start the engine..

Is the marker lights on or turned off, when you start engine?  If on, have you tried turning them off first, then start engine?

[abyrd]

On some rigs the side marker lights are incorporated in the turn signals,  might try isolating the flashers.

Another place worth looking is any trailer connector that you may have.

 

JIm

[manholt]

That 20A has got to cover more than markers, flasher and turn signal...Jim, you might be on to something, if it also covers the toad connection, then it would fall in the 20A range!  I'm confused on how it works with engine off, but not on!  My only guess is a bare wire/short that only comes into play by the vibration of the engine running...scratching my head!

[Aircherokee]

15 hours ago, wolfe10 said:

Ken,

What does the 20 amp fuse supply-- only clearance lights? Since everything else works, that is first speculation.  But 20 amps is either for other circuits as well (very likely) OR, if only for clearance lights DOES indicate a real problem-- they should not draw anywhere near that much.

Yes, water in a clearance light or bare positive wire to chassis metal could be causing a dead short.  But, that should cause the fuse to trip when engine is off, as well as when on.

Color me puzzled.

Wolfe10,

Your point regarding what else may be on that circuit is a good question.  I'll call Fleetwood and see if they're able to tell me.  Thanks!

[Aircherokee]

14 hours ago, manholt said:

Is the marker lights on or turned off, when you start engine?  If on, have you tried turning them off first, then start engine?

Good question.  I've tried it in all the scenarios I can think of, lights on with engine off, then engine on and turned the lights on.  Common denominator is the issue only happens when the engine is running.  Also, it's regardless of whether I'm driving or sitting with the engine on (thinking excess vibration).

Thanks!

[Aircherokee]

13 hours ago, abyrd said:

On some rigs the side marker lights are incorporated in the turn signals,  might try isolating the flashers.

Another place worth looking is any trailer connector that you may have.

 

JIm

Good question, in this motorhome, it has separate fuses that operate each turn signal, I considered that but the turn signals work fine regardless of whether the markers work or not.

Issue only came on when we took a long trip and added our toad. (I always try to think back to "what changed") so I isolated the toad by taking out the round to flat adapter from the trailer plug and the same scenario occurs.  For what it's worth, when I have the toad hooked up (1985 Jeep that I've towed with other units just fine), it blows the taillight fuse on my toad at the same time it blows the fuse on my motorhome.

The plot thickens?

[Aircherokee]

15 hours ago, wolfe10 said:

Ken,

What does the 20 amp fuse supply-- only clearance lights? Since everything else works, that is first speculation.  But 20 amps is either for other circuits as well (very likely) OR, if only for clearance lights DOES indicate a real problem-- they should not draw anywhere near that much.

Yes, water in a clearance light or bare positive wire to chassis metal could be causing a dead short.  But, that should cause the fuse to trip when engine is off, as well as when on.

Color me puzzled.

It sounds like I'm in good company!

[dickandlois]

Ken, reaching on this one, but it sounds like the fuse only blows when starting the coach. If you replace the fuse while the coach is running does it blow or not?

If the marker lights are off does the fuse blow? Also what is the fuse number and is it in the outside fuse box or the one inside the coach?

Now to thicken the plot !!

Not sure if you coach has the relay box pictured in the attachment , but just maybe the starter solenoid is reaching out for a ground through the ignition switch and the marker light circuit is the closest one.

Check and see if the starter ground relay  # 7 failed or #3 starter motor relay is defective(?)do not think it is because the starter motor current would come up short ! with a 20 amp fuse. LOL 

Rich M.

E172543 relay box.pdf

[Aircherokee]

Rich,

Thanks for taking the time for the thoughts.  Below are my answers.

Ken, reaching on this one, but it sounds like the fuse only blows when starting the coach. If you replace the fuse while the coach is running does it blow or not?

Yes, only blows after the coach is running.  Tried changing while it was running and blew the fuse after a couple of minutes.  Doesn't blow the fuse when the coach isn't running.

If the marker lights are off does the fuse blow? Also what is the fuse number and is it in the outside fuse box or the one inside the coach?

No, the fuse only blows when the marker (or headlamps) switch is turned on while the engine is running.

Here is a snapshot of the exact fuse (M12 and I are on a first name basis now - and will admit that versions of his name changes as this issue continues)

[dickandlois]

Thanks Ken !

Interesting it appears your coach uses a touch button to start. That would make me think there is a relay that is held on until the engine RPMs rise. Your coach uses the D-1 diode. in the circuit  Should this diode fail it could be an issue. There is a possibility the start circuit is still powered and the starter power(12 volts) has disconnected.

Many if not all starter circuits, open the lighting - headlights and others to lower the current load on the batteries when the starter is engaged. And since the marker fuse is blowing - a bad D-1 could cause a short in that circuit - if by chance if shorted or maybe even open. The wiring and complexity of the wiring has caused some interesting issues.

You might stop at a Ford truck center and see if they can print out a copy of the wiring set up for the starter circuit. You might not be able to read the drawings(not sure of your skill sets)nothing personal.

Rich M.

[Aircherokee]

Thanks Rich,

With the "one touch start", it's a function that I've seen, I'm sure you already know about, that's on most vehicles newer than 2010.  Where you just have to "bump" the key and it starts the engine (and disengages the starter once it catches),  versus the old days of holding the key until the engine caught.

I started a case with Ford today and one of their tech's is supposed to be calling me back in a day or so.  It stumped the first person I spoke with so it may in fact be exactly what you're talking about, we'll see.

I was thinking today that once I do find the solution (how's that for optimism?), I'll be sure to post it on this forum in case someone else runs into the issue down the road.

Thanks,
Ken

[manholt]

Ken.  Do you have access to look behind the UPS and look for any cracks or missing solder on the circuit board?

Thinking you may be getting feed over from M2 or D1.  But then your problem could also be from your tow harness...the wire for your toad tail/break lights.  

[jleamont]

is it the fuse listed on here position F6?

[jleamont]

More...

[jleamont]

Ok, the common item I see is the trailer plug on the rear, when you turn the ignition on it energizes a power feed to the plug, if there is a short back there it could back feed down the parking light circuit. Un plug the trailer plug right behind the 7 way, replace the fuse and try it again.

[manholt]

Ken and Joe.  As noted, a lot of the exterior lights are done by the Coach Manufacturer...Fleetwood.  They are the ones (Tech Dept.) who can best answer your questions and give you a fix!

[dickandlois]

Joe, Your attached pictures are a little different from the ones attached by Ken.

Kens attachments are copies from his owner manual ( I Think) that being the case, the attachments you offered do not picture fuse # 12  or the soft touch diode. 

The drawing of the lighting picturing the and the CJB has got to be close to what the Chassis builder installed, right down to the brown colored wires.That are part of the main wiring supplied by Ford. 

I keep thinking the one touch diode # 1 in this case is directly related the the problem and the power to operate the start sequence in using the circuit for the lighting  at the CJB some how .

Rich M.

[jleamont]

Rich, those came from the Ford service manual for his year F53. The F53 is wired for exterior lighting and comes with a 7way trailer plug from ford, the body company just plugs their harness into the Ford for exterior lighting at the take offs shown in the schematic. 

[manholt]

Joe.

You say his year coach, OK it's a 2011, but his chassis is probably a 2010 or earlier!   All depends upon his build date and/or when Fleetwood got the chassis ordered and built.  For an extreme example,  they have been building the 2019 Liberty & Marathon coach now.  

[Aircherokee]

*** FOLLOW UP WITH SOLUTION ***

If you read the post I just submitted, you'll see I found an amazing local wiring guy who fixed two of my electrical problems.  This guy had the patience and eyesight to figure out what was actually going on.

If you read my first post, you'll see the problem I was having.

The cause was the wiring loom going to the rear of my Fleetwood separated from where it was attached to the frame directly over the muffler.  This caused the loom to drop down and touch only when the motorhome was under torque, caused the circuit to short out only when it was moving.  This caused the running lights to short out.

Bizarre.

[manholt]

So, your telling us that you have been running for the last 18+ months, with/without lights?  Guess they don't have safety inspection, where you live! 

[Aircherokee]

My Fleetwood is good at out running the authorities. 🤣