Xantrex inverter/charger

[flyboy330]

My Xantrex inverter is putting out more than 150 VAC when on battery/alternator power. Does anyone have any ideas for a possible fix? It is a Freedom 458 2000 watt series inverter

[rossboyer]

Not sure if your inverter's output is a square wave. If it is, some meters will not measure a square wave voltage correctly; therefore, a very high voltage may be indicated.

[garykd]

The inverter mentioned in the OP is from the Xantrex web site:

AC Power Inverter with High Surge Capability, 3-Stage Charger

With filtered modified sine wave output, Freedom inverter/chargers

To be sure, consider calling the company at 800 670 0707.

[wolfe10]

To be sure, consider calling the company at 800 670 0707.

Indeed, call Xantrex on Monday.

And, yes, many voltmeters do not read non-sine wave VAC voltage accurately.

I assume this high reading is a new issue. So, until resolved, don't turn on the inverter.

Brett

[Cruzer]

Actually, there may be nothing wroing with your inverter. 150 volts sounds about right for that unit. The Freedom 458 is a modified sine wave inverter. Modified sine waves are not true sine waves, they are squared off. Voltage is actually measured at RMS levels on a true sine wave, which will peak at 170 volts but only for an instant and then return to baseline. The RMS voltage will read 120, which is what you want. But a modified sine wave is square. It shoots straight up to 150 volts, stays there for a while, and then falls to the baseline. For a better explanation on this check out the article in the RV Tech Library at http://www.rvtechlibrary.com/electrical/sinewave.htm for more details.

Mod sine voltage cannot be measured by a typical voltmeter. It'll read high every time. You need a specialized voltmeter that is capable of reading the modified sine wave. Chances are your 150 volts will become 120 volts once you use the proper meter. However, in the event something is wrong I would have it checkd out just to be sure there is no problem.

[mclavey]

I had the same problem with my xantrex 1500 on my monaco 2003 diplomat. it was putting out 165 volts , and was burning out electronics .... several computer power supplies and it finally burned up my DVD/suround player. I think mine has been bad for a long time many thing have been running hot.

I spoke with the company technical dept and they thought it might be a resistor on the controller board. They will repair them if you ship the unit to one of there repair centers. The repair center do not repair the board .... they replace them with new boards.

But being the ultimate do-it-yourselfer...... I dissembled mine and found a burned resistor array on the board . The array is a pack of four resistors in one package (yellow ceramic strip with 8 pins on it). I when to Radio Shack and purchased a package of individual resistors of the same value and soldered them in place of the pack. This corrected the problem and the voltage is now back to the normal 120 volts.

This is not a repair for the average person .... it requires desoldered the resistor from the board and soldering in new ones.

I will provide pictures of the repair if you would like to attempt it.

[Guest BillAdams]

Some scary advice here. 150V is not right. Period. Yes, maybe your meter is not right, but I have used any number of "standard" voltage meters on my 458 2000W inverter/charger and it reads dead on. Make sure the battery in your meter (if it has one) is not low as that will throw off your meter. Otherwise, do not use the inverter in this condition.

[dbelanger]

Got a modified sine wave inverter I bought at Harbor Freight. My digital volt meter reads 90 volts. My camping world volt meter (plugs into an outlet and is analog) reads 125 volts. Everything works fine and I am and will remain happy with whatever the thing produces for a waveform. Was cheap works fine.

[chucknewman]

The article by Mark Quasius - 9/21/06 is very misleading. The theory of the first half is basically correct, but the second half description of a modified sine wave (MSW) inverter is based on 1970's inverter technology. And his statements that the clock will not run correctly and your computer power supply will burn out are correct -- if you use an ancient inverter that he describes.

Fast forward folks. Since the early 90's and particularly since 2000, the best sine wave inverters are in fact MSW. But their output doesn't look anything like the diagram in this article. That diagram is totally misleading of today's technology within high quality inverters. In fact, I haven't seen any inverter sold utilizing square output that Mark depicts since the mid 80's.

I posted two lengthy and detailed replies on the Escapees forum on this issue. And I used a spec sheet from one of Xantrex's most popular inverter/charger in illustrating my point. It is advertised as a sine wave inverter, but in fact is not as Xantrex notes in the product's spec sheet. And this is one of the few inverter manufacturers that are allowed to feed the various power grids in this country.

Mark is correct when he alludes you cannot make a pure sine wave with electronics; you need spinning magnets. I agree, but instead of one positive and negative square wave per cycle as he depicts, modern inverters use many small square wave steps that are heavily filtered; the quality of filtration (and regulation, and frequency stability) will make it look like a sine wave to any resistive or inductive loads.

During my career I used $900. Hewlett Packard laboratory voltmeters and $2.95 (on sale) Harbor Freight voltmeters; and everything in between. I still use the latter on current MSW inverters, both cheap and quality units, and they all read the correct levels. If your meter is reading 150 vac you have defective inverter or a defective voltmeter. I have seen either fail in the field.

I was wondering why this MSW myth perpetuates year after year. Now it's clear, with misleading articles like this as of 2006 various groups keep throwing gasoline on an old flame that needs to extinguish. Unless you're using a 30 year old dinosaur inverter. Then all bets are off.

[Cruzer]

I guess that we must be looking at different inverters then. I had a Freedom 458 MSW inverter on my 2004 Allegro Bus. It always read high when I tested the outlets with both the "Good Governor" RV style plug in voltmeter as well as your basic multimeter. In addition, the microwave growled when it was operated. I replaced it with a Xantrex RS2000 true sine wave inverter and the voltage read where it should and the microwave ran nice and smoothly as if on shore power.

Now these newer "true sine wave" inverters do not have rotating magnets in them but they do utilize the stair stepping protocol that you mentioned to achieve a "near" true wine wave. At least it's close enough that any equipment running on it won't have any issues. The inverters with this technology are not labelled as modified sine wave however, they are advertised as true sine wave. The Freedom 458 is pretty ancient and certainly doesn't fall into that category.

Step forward to our 2007 Allegro Bus. It came with a Xantrex RV3012 3,000 watt modified sine wave inverter, which is much newer technology than the old Freedom 458 that Xantrex inherited when they bought out Heart Interface. While driving the new coach home from the dealership the water and ice dispenser in the door of the residential fridge began to get hot and smell. It had fried the electronics in the in-door control panel and got so hot that some of the plastic melted. This happened to most all of the coaches that Tiffin used the residential fridge in so they quickly changed over to true sine wave inverters. The RV3012 also gave high voltage readings and growling microwaves. Once my RS3000 was installed everything returned to normal.

I've seen similar instances from other RVers with modified sine wave inverters regarding a number of electrical component failures related to MSW so it's not just mine.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you on your statement that this is a thing of the past.

[flyboy330]

Wow, being new to the RV community, I am totally impressed by the experience and knowledge of the responders to my initial post. I talked to the people at Xantrex and was told that a high reading is normal when there is no load on the inverter. I guess that the clock on the microwave is considered no load. The Xantrex folks suggested that I put a load on the inverter and recheck the voltage. It worked. As soon as I put a load on the inverter, the voltage dropped immediately to 120.

Now I have to figure out why my Norcold 1200LRIM refrigerator will not run on the inverter. It works fine on the gen set and shore power but not the inverter. I have been advised to not use the LP setting while driving down the road. Thinking that the no load high voltage on the inverter might be the problem, I put a load on the inverter and the refrigerator still beeped and flashed a "no AC" message. My next step is to call Norcold. As a side note, my refrigerator was manufactured after the recall group.

Thanks again to everyone for their help and wonderful technical expertise.

Roger Olson

[service@sunbumrv.com]

I would have to agree with 2 of the above posts. 1st any meter will read the correct voltage. I feel from working on RV's for as long as I have & also have been on a tech support desk for Monaco for several years before starting my own business that 2 things every RV owner should have on board is a voltage meter & battery charger. That aside the 2nd thing is that the controller board is more than likely defective. Most of the time these can be replaced by a inverter repair facility. There is a good one in Phoenix AZ. With all inverters the 1st thing & easiest is to power them down for a reset. Unplug coach, disconnect battery power at the inverter & wait 5 minutes. That does a reset of the unit. But your unit is for sure a bad controller board. As stated in the post above you could try to repair it yourself. But a word of caution should go with that. The repair shops can test the unit to make sure it is operating correctly ( load outputs, charge outputs, Ect.) Unless you are sure you know what you are doing I would send it in. Check the companies website to see if there is one close to your location. More than likely there is one close. You can take it to them & have it back in a few days. Or you could see us in Yuma in the fall.

Hope that helps.

Rob Pierce

Sunbum RV LLC

[yudamann]

I guess that we must be looking at different inverters then. I had a Freedom 458 MSW inverter on my 2004 Allegro Bus. It always read high when I tested the outlets with both the "Good Governor" RV style plug in voltmeter as well as your basic multimeter. In addition, the microwave growled when it was operated. I replaced it with a Xantrex RS2000 true sine wave inverter and the voltage read where it should and the microwave ran nice and smoothly as if on shore power.

Now these newer "true sine wave" inverters do not have rotating magnets in them but they do utilize the stair stepping protocol that you mentioned to achieve a "near" true wine wave. At least it's close enough that any equipment running on it won't have any issues. The inverters with this technology are not labelled as modified sine wave however, they are advertised as true sine wave. The Freedom 458 is pretty ancient and certainly doesn't fall into that category.

Step forward to our 2007 Allegro Bus. It came with a Xantrex RV3012 3,000 watt modified sine wave inverter, which is much newer technology than the old Freedom 458 that Xantrex inherited when they bought out Heart Interface. While driving the new coach home from the dealership the water and ice dispenser in the door of the residential fridge began to get hot and smell. It had fried the electronics in the in-door control panel and got so hot that some of the plastic melted. This happened to most all of the coaches that Tiffin used the residential fridge in so they quickly changed over to true sine wave inverters. The RV3012 also gave high voltage readings and growling microwaves. Once my RS3000 was installed everything returned to normal.

I've seen similar instances from other RVers with modified sine wave inverters regarding a number of electrical component failures related to MSW so it's not just mine.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you on your statement that this is a thing of the past.

[yudamann]

flyboy330, your Norcold fridge not working with the inverter is a separate issue. On my 2005 Allegro Bus, the outlet for the fridge is not connected to the inverter and I can run the fridge on a/c only from shore power [or genny]. The heater for the absorption refrigeration cycle requires too much current [for the heater] to run this unit very long, so it is not tied to the inverter. However, I run my fridge, same model as yours, on propane while traveling with no problem whatsoever.

[utahborn47@gmail.com]

I have a 1993 38 ft Barth Regency which had a Xantrex 458 3000 installed a few years back. The Xantrex web site has much information on all of their inverters. This information includes what may not run correctly using MSW inverters such as theirs. Also, very important, they list what circuit breakers will not function correctly with their inverters. Check out all the tech information they provide.

My inverter puts out a good 120V and I have not found any equipment problems. I also have verified that all my AC breakers so indeed work, including the GFCI breakers, with my inverter.

This all said, I have found that the technical folks at Xantrex are more than happy and eager to help you with your specific questions. I highly advise that you contact them with your questions.

[Crusingator]

Now I have to figure out why my Norcold 1200LRIM refrigerator will not run on the inverter. It works fine on the gen set and shore power but not the inverter. I have been advised to not use the LP setting while driving down the road. Thinking that the no load high voltage on the inverter might be the problem, I put a load on the inverter and the refrigerator still beeped and flashed a "no AC" message. My next step is to call Norcold. As a side note, my refrigerator was manufactured after the recall group.

Thanks again to everyone for their help and wonderful technical expertise.

Roger Olson

Roger, depending on your coach manufacturer the Norcold Refrigerator outlet is not on an inverter powered circuit. The ice maker is powered by an inverter circuit. While on the road either unplug the ice maker and plug the refrigerator into the ice maker outlet OR purchase a "cube" outlet from Walmart. It is a small three outlet device which plugs into the inverter powered outlet. Then you can plug both the ice maker and the refrigerator into the inverter powered outlet. So when traveling with the inverter ON the refrigerator will be powered by the inverter as well as the ice maker.

If you dry camp often you will need to either move the refrigerator plug back to the original outlet OR MANUAL the refrigerator over to LP while dry camping. If you leave the refrigerator ON inverter power the coach batteries will be quickly be depleted.

[flyboy330]

Thanks cruisingator. I will give it a try.