NO DC to House in 93 Monaco Dynasty...

[aquarianagecoming]

Help. My current symptom is that I can NOT get the House to run from the House batteries. Batteries are either new or tested good. New Chassis battery.

It will run everything once I turn "on" the battery cut-off switch at the door directly from the starting battery and pull NOTHING from the house batteries.

I hear my "relay" in the kitchen area switching over whether on or off...

I have a fancy Magnum pure sine wave Charger/Inverter that was NEW about 10 years ago  seems to be working fine. No codes or warnings, seems to be float charging the house batts...

The other old guys in the park think it may be the ISOLATOR???

Could this be caused by the house batteries being reversed?? I'm wondering if I've screwed something up ove rthe past year or another 28-yr-old part is going bad... I did rewire the house batteries so that I pull + from one end  and - from the other. 3 x 12V deep cycle so that I wouldn't cook the first one in parallel config.

I have a 93 CumminsISC8.3... and I could not find an answer to this question after a few hours of looking... I am happy with links to old posts if anyone has an idea...

[hermanmullins]

Do you A/C current from either shore power or generator? If yes you may have popped circuit breaker on your inverter. Look at the rear of your inverter for a breaker.

Herman

[aquarianagecoming]

Yes, thanks Herman!! I have full use of my AC power to run on both shore AND generator.

I will picture my Magnum and hunt for that fuse... there is a 30A screw in type on the side... I will cut all power and check it right now.

[hermanmullins]

Having both shore and generator make believe you transfer switch is OK. I don't have a Magnum Inverter but I have been told the reset button is on the rear of the unit. Sorry but I can't verify that.

Herman  

[aquarianagecoming]

Also:

I have checked voltage at the Isolator in the engine compartment:

15+ From the alternator and 14+ out to chassis and house batteries!

voltage test AT the batteries with:

Batteries at rest, no shore, no engine/ no gen = 13.08H     12.97C seems to be draw? think it was inverting off of the starter battery

Shore ON: 13.3H      13.02C

Engine ON: 14.25H     14.2C

 

fuse seems okay IN the charger...

 

[aquarianagecoming]

Reset button right in front and I have reset it. fuse is okay.

 

Wonder if there is an inline fuse or an issue with a "solenoid" somewhere?????

[kaypsmith]

That red heat sink looking device with the two red and one black wires attached is your isolator. That device is a diode based isolator, and if you reversed the leads on the house batteries, you probable have fried those diodes on the house side. Try to get the name and model number off of that device and someone can probably help find a replacement. Do you know where the 12 volt fuses are located in the coach? Most of your coaches vintage have a set of fuses that look like the newer version of automotive fuses, and often have two larger amperage fuses side by side that are designed to blow in the event of reversed polarity. Most older coaches have a circuit breaker/ fuse panel that is built together, if that style there will be a lift off panel that covers the 12 volt fuses. Be sure to check for this. 

[aquarianagecoming]

Thanks Kayp!

Seems to be good Voltage coming through the Isolator while engine is running. 15+ Amps From the Alt and 14+ to Both House and Chassis batteries.

Is there another way to check it?

ALL fuses are good! Both 12V and 120AC.

I had a repair guy come out when my Battery Cutoff wouldn't work at all - NO power to the coach. Only Ac power to receptacles and a/c thank god. He thought my wires were all mixed up so he got it to work... BUT it is only pulling power out of the Chassis battery. He seemed to get the switch wired right but again - ONLY pulling juice FROM the Chassis battery.

He found that the Battery switch on the dash would trigger a relay, but did'nt seem to work. Wouldn't combine bnattery power for start.

We had to jump start and then replace the Chassis battery - THAT is when we figured out NOTHING would work in the coach without that Chassis battery in place. Full charge in new deep cycle with charger running a float and NO discharge from House batteries yet NONE of that pwer is getting FROM the deep cycle batteries TO the House.

How do I find/test Battery Disconnect Relay or Battery Disconnect Solenoid? Are there 2 in my 1993 Monaco Dynasty?

[kaypsmith]

You will need to start at the house batteries. Make sure that these batteries are wired correctly, with 3 12 volt batteries, you must have a jumper between each battery on both positive and negative post, every post requires one, positive to positive, negative. Make sure that the negative does indeed connect to a good chassis ground. Also that the positive does indeed connect to the house  fuse circuit. Now if all this is correct then follow the positive lead away from the battery bank. On most coaches, the first place to go is to a circuit breaker or inline fuse. You can use a needle or strait pin to push a hole through the insulation, making sure not to short this to a ground. With the pin before the fuse/circuitbreaker, use your multimeter attach and use the black lead attached a good ground, and the red lead with the meter set to DC voltage, do this first on the battery side of the fuse, then to the house side of the fuse. If 12 volt is present before fuse, then the circuit away from battery is good, go to the house side, if 12 volt is not there, then the fuse is bad, if fuse is good then follow the large wire to the next item in line and test the same way until you find the failing component. It does sound that the isolator is ok, but you can test it by checking all three red cables leaving the isolator, all three should check to contain 12 volts with the coach running. The battery combiner appears to be the black solenoid to the left of the isolator and just below it, that should make a sound when someone pushes the combiner switch.

[aquarianagecoming]

Thanks KayPSmith!!! 

[kaypsmith]

Here is how to test a diode based isolator. https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+test+a+diode+based+isolator&oq=how+to+test+a+diode+based+isolator&aqs=chrome..69i57j33i160.19018j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#kpvalbx=_YqIAYfDLCeevqtsP2oyn0AI56

[aquarianagecoming]

Update 7/27 

i am following my House battery wires…

All wire into a”bus” terminal pic attached#1

iread 14.5V AT the house batts and all connections EXCEPT that final wire leaving the upper, 2nd bus has 0. = bad bus.

jumped it but still no DC. 2nd pic 

Batteries are wired as this:3rd pic

 following wires into Relay/Solenoid/Isolator and i have a vid to watch testing these next   
 

Has to stop for night   

 

[aquarianagecoming]

That “bus” is actually a self resetting thermal circuit breaker and mine is bad. It supplies power to a massive wire going to rear of engine pic attached. 
also my powerline pl1-190-2 shows a small charge across both batt terminals = bad Isolator  … there is 1-2 volts moving across it from house to chassis

Other bigger wire comes to the side of THIS relay/solenoid pic2

 

 not sure how to test these  back to Google

 

 

[kaypsmith]

Doug, that large wire to the right should be going to the chassis battery harness. The Solenoid is most likely the battery combiner, with all wiring attached correctly, when someone pushes the combiner switch, you should hear that solenoid latch, and both chassis and house batteries should all be combined.

[rayin]

The batteries are 2 different brands, the left one is 10 years old per the sticker, I cannot read the other 2 battery  dates. Your battery bank is unbalanced and until load-tested you must assume they are bad.Add a new battery to a bank of older batteries and the old batteries will kill the new battery.

The momentary  battery combiner switch must be held closed manually for the connection solenoid to function, you cannot simply push n release for it to work. ON/OFF can mean different things than open/closed. When the connection is closed the circuit is solidly connected, when open there is no connection.

I see only 1 small positive wire(should be same size as neg. cable) exiting the coach battery bank. I don't think that is correct, is that spliced wire the positive wire connecting to the inverter? The inverter should have both pos. and neg. cables connected to that battery bank sized and fused to safely carry the maximum draw from the inverter.

This 12V side of life tutorial will help understand how and why everything works. http://manmrk.net/tutorials/RV/12voltSideofLifePart1.htm

Edited July 29, 2021 by rayin

[kaypsmith]

1 hour ago, rayin said:

I see only 1 small positive wire(should be same size as neg. cable) exiting the coach battery bank. I don't think that is correct, is that spliced wire the positive wire connecting to the inverter? The inverter should have both pos. and neg. cables connected to that battery bank sized and fused to safely carry the maximum draw from the inverter.

Ray, that's not his inverter, it's the battery isolator, diode based, one wire to alternator, and one to each battery bank for charging while alternator is charging. Only one battery is new, system has been load tested. The negative wire is attached to a disconnect switch on the left end of the bank positive directly with a small wire going to something else. Wires are correct.

Edited July 29, 2021 by kaypsmith

[rayin]

2 hours ago, kaypsmith said:

Ray, that's not his inverter, it's the battery isolator, diode based, one wire to alternator, and one to each battery bank for charging while alternator is charging. Only one battery is new, system has been load tested. The negative wire is attached to a disconnect switch on the left end of the bank positive directly with a small wire going to something else. Wires are correct.

Most inverter/chargers are connected directly to the battery bank, I know mine is, through a 300A fuse. Are you telling me his Magnum inverter is not wired directly to the battery bank? All I see are the pos. neg. cables to the house 12V system; and that knife-blade disconnect doesn't appear stout enough to withstand 200A.

Edited July 29, 2021 by rayin

[kaypsmith]

17 minutes ago, rayin said:

Most inverter/chargers are connected directly to the battery bank, I know mine is, through a 300A fuse.

Agreed, the picture is not an inverter/charger, it's a diode based battery isolator, has nothing to do with inverting/charging. It's sole purpose is to make sure that the user does not deplete the chassis battery while current is being pulled from the house batteries, works equally well to keep the house batteries are not depleted by chassis operation. The house batteries do have a thermal type circuit breaker which has gone bad.

Edited July 29, 2021 by kaypsmith

[rayin]

10 minutes ago, kaypsmith said:

Agreed, the picture is not an inverter/charger, it's a diode based battery isolator, has nothing to do with inverting/charging.

Right, so why did he mention his inverter? I just realized we're talking about different pictures, I'm looking at the last picture of the 3 battery bank. I think you are looking at the pictures in his next post of the isolater, that wiring appears correct.

Edited July 29, 2021 by rayin

[kaypsmith]

Sorry, I thought that I had sent you a PM, just checked and re sent to you.

[aquarianagecoming]

Thanks Everyone, Kay P and Rayin and Hermann,

I appreciate all the experience and knowledge. I know it is a confusing problem and is even confusing to picture and describe!!

Ray, I hear you on the batteries, but I took them all to be checked and they refused to sell me all three since those old batteries were operating as NEW. He coulda BS'ed me, but all seems fine! The only battery that was bad, was the first one with both + and - on it - I have since moved them to opposite ends of the 3 batt bank.

We were able to isolate 3 problems:

1. Bad circuit breaker FROM the house batts TO the inverter - jumped until replacement arrived today

2. Battery Boost Solenoid was bad. This should have meant that I just couldn't boost. I am replacing with a heavy duty Solenoid Continuous duty 500A with 1500 spike. Everything is Factory back here in the compartment and I want the OEM abilities working = battery boost.

3. Repair man "A" unplugged and possibly rewired incorrectly the house switches for Step/Handle/Porch and BATTERY CUT-OFF when he was installing the new Kwikee step. He did NOT perform the diagnosis that is supposed to be done prior to install so we have NO way of knowing until I do this myself. The step does NOT operate correctly. Off is On and On is off now. Won t work wired the other way. Must grab the pigtail and battery and run through the diag. The step they sent me new was pre-bent from the factory. What a headache!!

You just can't send a big furry monster to do the work of an evil scientist!!

Repair man "B" found this problem, but then unplugged all and ONLY rewired the Battery Cut Off INCORRECTLY  with the wrong power lead. This was sending a current back into the system and NOT allowing any of the DC power to flow correctly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Repair man "B" FINALLY found some wiring diagram and realized his mistake. Battery Cut-Off solved for now. Rewired correctly (I hope) see pics.

But now I need help figuring out this set up of switches! I will pic here but create  a new post with the new problem.

Can't pics to load and can't figure out why... Will try another post here

[aquarianagecoming]

New Parts and dang switches!

He had wired the orange into the battery cut off switch = elec phantom charge back into the system...

These things are all Numbered... anyone have any idea??? I have 135 pages of wiring diagram but NOTHING about this. Seems this set up varied so much across the same make and model depending upon interior options and whatnot.

Double Orange is HOT labelled with "8"

Green is HOT labelled with "3"

I thihnk I will post this as a NEW question...

[aquarianagecoming]

Final Follow Up:

I rec'd the new parts and installed all...

I chose to disconnect ALL power sources, both battery banks and the shore connection to 50Amps. Esp since I was alone - I don't want my wife finding my smoldering corpse and she can't get the smell out of the RV, LOL!

I confirmed that the coach was still drawing 12V from the Start/Chassis battery and the House bank at the same time... Somehow flowing through that bad Solenoid which must have frozen with contact between the sides. I am going to dissect it when I next have the opportunity, perhaps recondition it. I'm curious about the inner workings of the circuit breakers too...

I think the major issue WAS the Battery Boost Solenoid stuck, allowing the Chassis battery to draw down for house loads. Of course, no mounting brackets were going to match up so there are always layers of "install" to do, LOL!

I put the Circuit Breaker in correctly, AND I picked up a sweet Battery Minder with de-sulfate function and temp corrections to maintain my Chassis battery...

 

NOW, the Battery Cut Off swithch turns my coach dark! Yay!! I can ALSO disconnect AT the house batteries via my knife blade. I am no longer drawing upon the chassis battery to power the house.

I CAN utilize the Battery Boost from the driver's seat and WOOF she barks into life!!

NOW I think I can figure out those front door switches with a little time on the Voltmeter...

 

Thanks ALL again and I hope that folks down the line find this thread useful!!

Doug Z