Tire Blowout Today

[Guest Wayne77590]

This is a sequel to: to this post.

Well, it happened to me. Today on I-5 in Washington State, about 1/2 mile from the exit of Old Highway 99, there was this loud bang and it felt like I ran over a metal object. But, it was a blow out. A zippered blow out on the upper casing of the inside dual that went flat in the linked post above.

Brett's post hit it on the head. Apparently there was internal damage that could not be seen, even by the professionals.

I was able to pull to the side of the interstate within 100 yards of the POP. Looking at the tires did not reveal any problem. I had to get the tire gauge and measure the air. the very first tire I hit indicated zero air. I limped at 5 to 10 mph to the exit and was able to park in a safe place. As I was sitting there trying to get assistance on the phone, a good Samaritan in a pickup, named John, stopped. He said he was at work, and I would guess a good 500-1000 yards off the freeway and felt the concussion when the tire blew. He also said he had a friend, just across the freeway, that had a tire shop. Ah the good fortunes at last. He drove to the tire shop called "Pacific Tire," in Mount Vernon, WA, and in no time I was contacted and asked the usual questions of tire size.

Unfortunately, they did not have the 22.5 in stock but were expecting a shipment. He did have a used one, and when I saw it, it was in good shape and good tread. So, temporarily, while awaiting 2 new tires, the used one was put on and we finished our 30 mile trip.

Now folks, Pacific Tire is service exemplified. I followed the service truck back to the shop. Jim Kaufman was my contact at the shop, and is either the owner or a manager, I am assuming. When I asked what the costs were up to that point, he said, "We'll take care of it when you come back on Tuesday." Don't you just love that kind of service and service attitude? He said that one way or another he would have tires for me.

I think I'll go to a Casino while I'm in the area. My luck has to change sometime.

[jjgnn@yahoo.com]

I checked your earlier post, and did not see the mileage or age of the tire. I realize that the loss of air through the valve extension likely caused all this adventure, but still it is nice to know all the particulars.

I check my tires monthly, hoping to catch a slow leak or some other problem. I was in Phoenix, and the day before I left for Quartzite (a year or so ago) I checked my tires, they were fine. I got up that morning to go with my group, checked the tires again even though I had checked them the day before and had not rolled even one inch, and found a flat due to a cracked solid metal valve extension. For once my paranoia paid off, or I would have been in the same situation you found yourself. My tires (and presumably valve stems) were six years old at the time, about 40,000 miles. Passenger side inside dual.

I got to Q a day late, but still did not have to deal with a flat on the road.

[wolfe10]

Wayne, Glad ya'll are safe. As we discussed on your other thread, anytime a tire is run either low on air or severely overloaded, the steel belts in the sidewall can flex excessively. Kind of like bending a wire back and forth in your hand. It materially weakens it.

And as you saw, all the weakened strands are the same distance from the rim, as that is the "point of bending." Then, as one strand actually breaks, it places more stress on the strand next to it, and so on ... until BOOM.

When the other tire blew (other thread), this remaining tire had to carry TWICE its design weight -- hence the "severely overloaded."

BTW, I KNOW your weather is better than at home -- heat index here yesterday was 112 degrees F with dew point at 79 degrees F. Brett

[mikev]

Hello Wayne. Sorry to hear about the blowout, but glad to see everyone was okay. Like Jack, I was curious if you knew the age of the tires. Was this the one that ran flat on you before or the one next to it? Lastly, do you have a tire monitoring system, and if so was there any warning? Thanks.

[Guest Wayne77590]

Jack,

The tire DOT ends with 2007, so it is not that old. I just turned 18,000 miles on those tires. I check air pressure every time I start out on the road, no matter how far I am going. It only takes a couple minutes. The mileage on the first incident was approximately 12K. My delay was about an hour and a half because I was so close to the tire repair facility.

Brett,

It was the same tire that blew as the first flat. I know how the stress works and I am gong to replace both tires on Tuesday. (Ouch $$$)

It has been cold ever since we arrived in California, Oregon, and now Whidbey Island, Washington. At this time, 10:00 a.m. it is 63 degrees outside, partly cloudy. I'd like to say that I'm going to be happy to be back in warm weather, but I'd just be fibbin'

[kalynzoo]

Isn't just fantastic to find people, business people, or just fellow travelers, who are willing to help and will do business with a handshake. I remember when first in business I could borrow from the local bank, or deal with a local store with just a handshake. I am glad you were able to deal with your roadside dilemma without having someone rip you off with a high price, cash only, take it or leave it.

As for the tires, I feel your pain, and have been there a couple of time. Even with relatively new tires, I once drive over a boat pug, and had the darn thing puncture the tire along the Washington coast. Like you a friendly tire shop and a crab shack within walking distance made the unpleasant experience a positive memory.

Anyway, keep on travelin, and happy trails.

[Guest Wayne77590]

And I forgot to mention that we were on some really rough roads coming out of Seattle.

I forgot to answer. I have a TPMS, and it is still in the box. I am in need of valve extensions that are solidly attached so that I can add the monitors. I added them to to TOAD and was constantly having problems with maintaining air pressure. I used Teflon and all kinds of tricks to keep the monitor from leaking. It was frustrating so I took them off and put them back in the box. I'm going to purchase some Dually Valves from Borg Equipment and Supplies as soon as I get a "round-2-it."

I did mention that about 5 miles before this happened I had used my IR temperature device and checked all tires for heat, and all was normal. It's a good question as to whether a TPMS would have notified me. Guess I'll never know for sure.

And don't forget to check your tires before every trip and in between destinations.

[Guest Wayne77590]

I think a saving grace on no damage is because the side that blew was the outside wall next to the outside dual. The outside dual must have taken all the concussion - I hope. I'll inspect further when the new ones are being put on.

[WildBill95]

I had a blowout last week on a trip. Both wheels on the right rear let go at the same time. I don't know if I hit something or what, but there was a loud explosion and when I stopped both were flat. Actually, one was in three pieces, sidewalls and tread completely seperated. The second had no tread, the side walls were connected only by the steel strands. I have a TPMS and while I don't know the temperatures or pressures at the exact time of the blowout, there were no alarms. I have the High pressure alarm set at 105 PSI and the low pressure alarm at 75 PSI. Throughout the trip the tires had been running 90 - 95 PSI after warming up. We had stopped for fuel about 100 miles before the blowout and, as I always do, I walked around the RV looking at tires, checking the toad, and making sure bikes are still secure. I even ran the toad for 5 minutes to lubicate the transmission since we had been driving for about 5 hours and had another 4 to go. Ther tires were dated 2005 so while not new, were not at the end of their life yet. Tread was good.

[tireman9]

I had a blowout last week on a trip. Both wheels on the right rear let go at the same time. I don't know if I hit something or what, but there was a loud explosion and when I stopped both were flat. Actually, one was in three pieces, sidewalls and tread completely seperated. The second had no tread, the side walls were connected only by the steel strands. I have a TPMS and while I don't know the temperatures or pressures at the exact time of the blowout, there were no alarms. I have the High pressure alarm set at 105 PSI and the low pressure alarm at 75 PSI. Throughout the trip the tires had been running 90 - 95 PSI after warming up. We had stopped for fuel about 100 miles before the blowout and, as I always do, I walked around the RV looking at tires, checking the toad, and making sure bikes are still secure. I even ran the toad for 5 minutes to lubicate the transmission since we had been driving for about 5 hours and had another 4 to go. Ther tires were dated 2005 so while not new, were not at the end of their life yet. Tread was good.

Both tires on dual application usually means one had a slow leak which resulted in the mate being overloaded. Three pieces is give away of what is called a Run Low Flex failure. The picture in the start of this thread is sometimes called a"zipper" failure when the steel sidewall ply does exactly what Brett described. The steel flexes too much, much like a paper clip.

Have you confirmed your TPMS reads correct pressure and that they do go to alarm when you get to the low level?

Sounds like a nice afternoon project when you have access to air to re-inflate each tire. Going down to 75 while not driving is not a problem.

I would not trust a visual inspection to see low tire.

[C-677946]

I had a blowout last week on a trip. Both wheels on the right rear let go at the same time. I don't know if I hit something or what, but there was a loud explosion and when I stopped both were flat. Actually, one was in three pieces, sidewalls and tread completely seperated. The second had no tread, the side walls were connected only by the steel strands. I have a TPMS and while I don't know the temperatures or pressures at the exact time of the blowout, there were no alarms. I have the High pressure alarm set at 105 PSI and the low pressure alarm at 75 PSI. Throughout the trip the tires had been running 90 - 95 PSI after warming up. We had stopped for fuel about 100 miles before the blowout and, as I always do, I walked around the RV looking at tires, checking the toad, and making sure bikes are still secure. I even ran the toad for 5 minutes to lubicate the transmission since we had been driving for about 5 hours and had another 4 to go. Ther tires were dated 2005 so while not new, were not at the end of their life yet. Tread was good.

Any chance that you could have picked up a rock between the tires? That will take out two tires really fast.

[tireman9]

The picture posted by Wayne is classical "Zipper" failure. Wolfe is spot on with the fatigue flex due to running low with steel sidewalls. While a stone caught between the duals can cause tires to fail there will be significant localized abrasion of both sidewalls where the tires held the stone. I also doubt that you could manage to abrade through both tires at the same time so one would almost certainly loose air first, leaving the companion damages but still holding air.

Note to all... Including pictures ( in focus and close up if possible) as Wayne did will help those with tire inspection knowledge provide more accurate analysis allowing more likely information on the probable Root Cause of the failure.

Verbal descriptions from non-tire engineers are seldom sufficient as tire engineers have a vocabulary we use when discussing tire conditions.

[bizsmith@yahoo.com]

I too experienced a blowout. I was on I-12 at Baton Rouge, LA and was able to get on to the shoulder safely. FMCA emergency service was able to locate a tire as I do not carry a spare (22.5 size). A Louisiana Good Samaritan truck pulled in behind me and sat there with his flashing lights for the whole 2 hours+ to get the new tire. It was a front tire and I was able to raise the front tires off the ground. I understand this is preferred rather than have the service people put a jack in the wrong place and wreck something else. The thing that amazed me is that they were able to demount the old tire and mount the new one without ever removing the front wheel.

A traumatic experience but it could have been worse.

I can't believe some people only check pressures once a month or even less often. I have tire pressure monitors and wouldn't be without. Even before I had the monitors I checked every day that I was going to move. One day really paid off as an inside dual had blown unknown to me and I wouldn't have know until possibly the outside blew also.

[mlwoodward]

We've been fortunate ... we haven't had any blowouts yet. We are in the process of replacing our tires and thinking of having "Tyron" installed as well. Any opinions or experience with this product?

[hermanmullins]

Wayne I just saw your post from June. Sorry for your problems and happy that all is well and no damage was done to your coach.

You said that you are going to change both tires. Since these are rear tires and are drive tires is it wise to only change two tires on one side and not the other side as well? My thought is wear. It may seem to be very little but you could have tires of different dia. on the defferential.

Just my thought, Maybe the gentleman (sorry I can't remember his name)that is a retired tire design eng. might have a thought on that.

Again glad you'll are safe.

[Guest Wayne77590]

Herman,

I don't remember if I had them rotated or not, but so far so good.

Thanks.

[rorr1821]

This is a sequel to: to this post.

Well, it happened to me. Today on I-5 in Washington State, about 1/2 mile from the exit of Old Highway 99, there was this loud bang and it felt like I ran over a metal object. But, it was a blow out. A zippered blow out on the upper casing of the inside dual that went flat in the linked post above.

Brett's post hit it on the head. Apparently there was internal damage that could not be seen, even by the professionals.

I was able to pull to the side of the interstate within 100 yards of the POP. Looking at the tires did not reveal any problem. I had to get the tire gauge and measure the air. the very first tire I hit indicated zero air. I limped at 5 to 10 mph to the exit and was able to park in a safe place. As I was sitting there trying to get assistance on the phone, a good Samaritan in a pickup, named John, stopped. He said he was at work, and I would guess a good 500-1000 yards off the freeway and felt the concussion when the tire blew. He also said he had a friend, just across the freeway, that had a tire shop. Ah the good fortunes at last. He drove to the tire shop called "Pacific Tire," in Mount Vernon, WA, and in no time I was contacted and asked the usual questions of tire size.

Unfortunately, they did not have the 22.5 in stock but were expecting a shipment. He did have a used one, and when I saw it, it was in good shape and good tread. So, temporarily, while awaiting 2 new tires, the used one was put on and we finished our 30 mile trip.

Now folks, Pacific Tire is service exemplified. I followed the service truck back to the shop. Jim Kaufman was my contact at the shop, and is either the owner or a manager, I am assuming. When I asked what the costs were up to that point, he said, "We'll take care of it when you come back on Tuesday." Don't you just love that kind of service and service attitude? He said that one way or another he would have tires for me.

I think I'll go to a Casino while I'm in the area. My luck has to change sometime.

I noticed you have Michelin tires. I like that brand and have strongly considered switching from my current G690 Goodyear's because of the "rivering" I am experiencing on the tire front edges. Which brand and series did you buy as a replacement?

[Guest Wayne77590]

I purchased the same brand and model that was on the coach. Michelin 255R80/22.5 XRV. I now have 30,000 miles on the original 4 remaining tires, and all are still looking good.

Whatever tire yo go with, insist that you get tires that were manufactured in "this" year. The DOT numbering system will end in xx11, where xx is the week of manufacture, and 11 is the present year. Tell them you want to see the tires before they are installed, look at the DOT, then give them permission to install them. That is what I do for "any" tires I purchase.

[tireman9]

And I forgot to mention that we were on some really rough roads coming out of Seattle.

I forgot to answer. I have a TPMS, and it is still in the box. I am in need of valve extensions that are solidly attached so that I can add the monitors. I added them to to TOAD and was constantly having problems with maintaining air pressure. I used Teflon and all kinds of tricks to keep the monitor from leaking. It was frustrating so I took them off and put them back in the box. I'm going to purchase some Dually Valves from Borg Equipment and Supplies as soon as I get a "round-2-it."

I did mention that about 5 miles before this happened I had used my IR temperature device and checked all tires for heat, and all was normal. It's a good question as to whether a TPMS would have notified me. Guess I'll never know for sure.

And don't forget to check your tires before every trip and in between destinations.

I understand the reports of valve extensions leaking. However is the bolt in metal valves in the wheels have new rubber O-rings and the braded steel extensions are carefully threaded onto the valves and the hose is firmly mounted to prevent movement I see no reason for them to leak if they don't leak when initially attached. I have 15,850 miles on mine and my TPMS - inside tire mount - check tire pressure about every 15 to 30 seconds while driving.

A quick spray with soapy water will show a leak.

By the way I will use your experience as a teaching opportunity (minus your name) in my next Tire Seminar at Madison FMCA Convention and hopefully others will be able to avoid tire failure and the expense of replacing two tires by installing a TPMS.

[Guest Wayne77590]

Tireman,

My extension was mounted with a clip like your pictures, but the steel wheel has an outer liner. It was different only in that aspect but a solid mount riveted to the outer liner. The leak was where the braid meets the crimped solid metal piece. I did not check the air pressure the day I moved it from storage to the house, about 12 miles. Shame on me. Many people have had good experiences with the braided extensions. I just happened to have a bad one and it has soured me on that type of extension. I'd like to have the solid extensions and a wheel hole grommet to hold it in place. Sort of like the "Dually Valve" system. (name may not be correct.)

[tireman9]

Wayne

You might find my Sept 1 post on my Blog of interest. Focus on "I had a blowout"

[MikeCanter]

Check out this link about Zipper Flats. You would swear that the picture of your tire was used in the document.

http://www.rma.org/getfile.cfm?ID=953&type=publication

[Guest Wayne77590]

Roger,

Nice blog. Good information from someone who knows - a tire engineer.

Mike,

I don't think it was my picture - I never received any royalties. (hee hee!)

[carlpeterson]

I have a Safari Simba and on a recent trip to MN. I had both tires on the right rear blow out' one had no air, which cause the other one to blow out. Coachnet found a tire service near Lamoni, Iowa ( We were really in the boondocks) who had two used tires which they changed on the side of the road. Two reasons for my comments, Coachnet really came through with expedited service. My tires were made in 04, but I only had 18,000 miles on them. On return to Alvin, I replaced all the tires, and all the valve stem extensions because they get old also

[mikev]

Just read the latest posting today, it's an ongoing discussion for sure. The great thing is coming to understand what our tire needs are through reading these sort of discussions. Through this I learned about knowing my corner weights and proper inflation. To that end I weighed my coach last year as unloaded and loaded as I could possibly make it. I did it both ways to see what the effect of adding water, cargo and people would be on the corners. Then this year after replacing my tires- dated 2002, excellent condition and virtually no sidewall/between tread cracking- I sprung for the tire monitoring system from TST. I must say that it was money well spent. I getup in the morning when we are to travel and turn on the monitor and know the coach and toad's tire pressure in minutes-in the past I would be out there with the tire gauge, now I have a coffee inside and watch others down getting on one knee....

While driving down the road I have the comfort of knowing if I have a gradual or rapid leak in my coach or toad tires I will be notified by the TPMS instead of some unpleasant smell or bang or someone passing us waving frantically and pointing at the toad. It may not save a tire in a rapid leak condition on the highway but in a gradual leak situation I may be able to save the tire/s if I stop the coach in time. As well I should be able save damage to my toad if a tire goes or has a slow leak. I've read the horror stories on line about the damage to toads being pulled by a diesel pusher when you can hardly feel the toad behind you.

I still check my tires with a gauge every month or so, just to see if the senders are remaining consistent. So far they are bang on the money. At the same I also often give my tires a good look at for any cuts or abrasions etc.

Considering we all spend thousands on tires I think the TPMS is more than worth the $500 it cost for my unit. By the way it should be pointed out that not all tire gauges are created equal. I have checked out many gauges that are out by 5 to 10 psi. In particular the analog gauges are prone to being out of range usually by simply dropping them. I check them against a calibrated gauge we use at work. The gauges I found to be very accurate are a digital model made by Accutire Model MS4021B-they are inexpensive too-under $10! I've found them to be within +/-1 psi at 110 psi. Great little gauge. Another tip is to buy two. Usually I check them against each other on the first tire I check. The two gauges that came with the coach from the previous owner in 2009 were low by 7 and 10 psi. Fortunately he was running the tires at too high a psi as he had never weighed the coach so I didn't have to worry about previous run low damage.

Anyway I am very happy with the TST 407 system.