RodgerS

Your MH has three electrical systems that work together - something worth taking some time to research. RodgerS.

"Is this post just an advertisement for a paid business offering for an on-line, non-certified, non-anything, reading course?" I think they are trying hard to get more service providers to become aware of the fact that this is an effective way to self-educate their service personnel. Historically, as it was represented to me by my instructors, the service managers tend to strictly focus on hands-on experience (even if outside the industry), especially as many, at least the ones I met, were uncomfortable referring to written materials. I recognize that not everyone can make the connection between written materials and the work in front of them, but I was able to do it and it really accelerated my learning, particularly troubleshooting skills. Even though I didn't own an RV, I did work on 2 to 6 daily. Many of my fellow service mechanic were frustrated that they were not the only source of my learning and that I was able to take over and fix some things they could not fix...because of my "reading." But I appreciate this was frustrating and irritating to some. Rodger S.

Hello Carl, Yep, I think there are several Cat's meows out there and Newmar is one of them. Even the meows turn into screams at times. I also like PleasureWay, DRV, Dynamax and several others. (include PranQster Beer for lubrication) As to Gremlins, there are a lot of upset posts from owners on all the forums I read. Most interesting to me are those who have suffered multiple disappointing and even severe consequences having failed to do a good PDI themselves, new or used, and those who discover issues that were easily discoverable with a bit of research. I really don't consider whether or not to do a quality PDI and specific model research an issue from my perspective. I always thought that discussing information and ways to helping fellow posters avoid problems was just important as solving problems, but I appreciate that the fact I don't own a motorhome and that draws a lot of irritation and frustration my way, and many may not agree with me. It could be anywhere from a month to two years before I purchase an RV. No hurry, am not feeling any pressure, frustration, or that I'm missing anything. I'm also happy to be a lightening rod for, let's say, interesting replies. I told my wife her RV budget plus my RV budget, plus what I don't plan to leave to my interesting children (a lot), will easily pay for whatever I decide to purchase. My math is also different. Rodger S.

This is another interesting recent story regarding a Newmar Bay Star (a gas coach). bevo7: "Our full wall slide won't go out...Called Newmar...to no avail. We had to cut short a 3 week trip early in the year because of an AC issue...We also have had a leveler issue first time out. Had the MH since Oct 2015. My wife has about had it...I know there are issues in the beginning with new MH but this seems a little much...Disgusted but staying patient." My basic premise seems solid: more knowledge and self-reliance tends to result in better experiences than being put into a situation where one relies heavily on the "industry" to stay on the road. The above issues wouldn't phase me as I have worked on slides, A/Cs, and levelers...and received a good troubleshooting/repair education as well. These issues are just par for the course from my point of view. Rodger S.

"analysis paralysis" The purpose of the post was to provide a resource for those who understand the value of doing their own PDI, maintenance, etc. It was a darn good course when I took it and I had access to multiple motorhomes to practice on. As to analysis paralysis, I would have purchased a coach two years ago, except for two unresolved personal issues I have mentioned in the past and have probably been forgotten by some readers. For now, I tend to research the various forums to continually expand my knowledge and engage with other owners until at least one of those issues has been resolved, so I can "use" the coach after I purchase it. Worrying about someones sensitivity is necessary for some, but not for me. Rodger S.

I took this course separate from my inspector's training. The price is right and it is online, so very easy to complete. You should have access to a MH, of course, for the hands on practice. You will likely purchase some tools as well. Starts early October. Instructor for my class was a Certified Master Technician. Pre Delivery Inspection Course – RVTNC106.4 Recertification Hours: 28 Cost: $209 The PDI is one of the most common tasks associated with a selling RV dealership service shop. All new RVs must be “PDI’d” prior to delivery to the retail customer. Here, the students proceed, step by step, through the process of performing a quality PDI. Troubleshooting and repair techniques are not the focus of this course; rather this course teaches how to actually inspect and test the viability of all components found in every major system. All electrical, LP and plumbing gear, as well as all safety components and add-on accessories are closely inspected and operated. After successful completion of this course the student will effectively be able to: Define the scope of a PDI (inspection and documentation) Review the information on a PDI sheet Perform hot skin test and neutral-ground isolation test Conduct a polarity test Check generator operation and output Check AC electrical system performance (including transfer switch and GFCI) Verify operation of all 120-volt AC appliances Check battery condition Check interior and exterior lighting Check DC electrical system performance Verify operation of all 12-volt appliances Inspect LP container installation and understand data plate information Conduct a LP drop pressure test Adjust LP regulator operating pressure Conduct LP regulator lock-up test Document and verify any and all test results Check appliance operation and performance Leak test waste system and holding tanks Check and flush the waste systems Check the fresh water supply and drain system Check water pump operation Flood test holding tanks Check termination valves and caps Check holding tank mounting Perform drain system flow test Check tire pressure Check lug nut torque Conduct under-vehicle visual inspection Verify operation of DOT lighting Check automotive fluid levels, belts and hoses Verify operation of all switches, indicators and gauges Check operation of back-up monitor and mirrors Road test RV Check landing gear, stabilizers and tongue jacks of travel trailers and fifth wheels Adjust and set up electric brake system on tow vehicle Document and record defects Clean and detail RV Check interior and exterior surface finishes Check furniture and soft goods operation and appearance Verify correct window, door and storage compartment operation Insure operation of all locks and keys Install OEM loose items Verify operation of CO and LP leak detectors and smoke alarms Check and inspect fire extinguishers To register, go online to, https://lifelearn.northampton.edu/modules/. Click on View Catalog under Center for Business and Industry (CBI). Click on Technical and Trades. Search for course and follow registration procedure. Call 610.861.5390 if you have problems with registration. Rodger S.

Great Carl, I want to get some youtube video of you posted with a 45 ft dp in those hairpin curves, especially the one at the bottom of the hill. I really want to be impressed as you smoothy cut through it...and don't forget your towable. Let's set a date and I will buy the beer and some oysters, even if this post gets deleted again for challenging one of the forum untouchables. We will start and end at my house, traveling my favorite route. I will even grill a big steak for you. No guts as they say, no glory. Note: just an add, there are regular road blocks/maintenance due to slides and other road conditions. If you can't turn around on a hair pin or fish hook, you will become part of the problem. Also, there is a lot of traffic and if you are going to drive slow or become part of the mess, you are creating a dangerous condition and a very bad day for all your fellow travelers. Rodger.

I live in the Bay Area, and my wife and I head for the ocean ever so often. My favorite way to drive highway 1 is on a motorcycle or in my Mercedes. There are some very tight, hairpin turns on highway 1 and regular construction. One of the worst turns way way north of SF is a very, very steep hill that is very scary coming down and into a horrid hairpin turn at the very bottom of it. I can't imagine driving much of anything with a lot of weight or length down that beautiful and sometimes demonic stretch of road...a class B would be an exception. So yes, park the mh wherever, drive in and stay overnight at a hotel on the ocean if you want. A great drive would be all of highway 1 in Calif and Oregon, staying where ever along the way. There still may be some snow in some places like Yosemite or up North, but if you stay until it partially melts and travel on clear days where no chains are required, it is one of the best times. Great time for photography and very few people around. Before you go check on the snow conditions that can require chains over the passes. When I use to ski, I checked the morning and evening snow reports. I avoided driving unless the roads and weather conditions were clear. I did take a C motorhome up skiing for a week. It froze up on the third day. No damage, as I left right away. Black ice is common. Darwin's law applies. Rodger S.

Here is a link to just such a tester: http://www.myrv.us/electric/Pg/tester_50amp.htm Rodger S.

Consider: 1) Buying a testing device from someplace like Lowe's or Home Depot, that you can plug into your outlet that tests to verify you have a good ground and your polarity is correct. 2) Hook in your power protection, between your outlet and RV, just like you would do if you hooked up to a pedestal. If you don't have one, by one, and spend the money for a good one. Rodger S.

"what have you done or seen done that was worth the effort and money?" This question has been asked and answered so many times with just a little bit of effortless research in any MH forum. The most recent talk about has been Sumos. Like all upgrades, much depends on the specific unit and there is some assumption you have done the easy stuff like adjusting tire pressure and weighing the coach. The bigger question is how far does it take you as to improving the ride ability and this seems to partially be a judgment call of the person in the driver's seat. Certainly, before one buys a coach the issue of drivability should be part of ones consideration. At some point, if you are putting on quite a bit of mileage, the answer is easy, get a dp. However, the ride ability seems to improve heavier and longer the coach gets, even for gas coaches. I have read several happy posts by owners of the gas 26k, 39 foot Newman Canyon Stars, but I have also read happy posts by owners of Chevy trucks who claim they ride like a Cadillac. Regardless, I'm sure it would be hard to get a MH to match the ride ability of my Mercedes clk. My current RV, my now 75 lb Boxer dog, is knocking his big stainless steel bowl around this morning, which means it is time for a refill. Cheers. Rodger S.

To paraphrase Mark Twain, it depends on the way you carry your cat. Rodger S.

Very interesting post. "how could I respond any other way to someone who had no real interest in finding the correct answer before responding." Try,"thank you for your quick response." Then just answer the questions, even if you need to repeat yourself. It is your responsibility to gather the information about your coach they need. Don't add remarks that basically put the responsibility on their heads, rather than on your head, for the knowledge about your coach. Was it insulting??? Depends on whether, in effect, telling someone they are an unqualified dumb ****, that you consider that insulting or not....certainly "a little harsh." =========== If I chose to own a very, very old luxury custom coach, my assumption going in is that it is unreasonable to assume that information on such a coach is readily available AND that whatever I would do it is going to be very expensive and time consuming. I had an attorney friend who bought an old Ferrari. When to his surprise he discovered how much it cost to maintain the car, at a Ferrari dealer, he quickly sold it off. No, he could not just take it to one of the local backyard mechanics or jiffy lube shops. ======= Note: when I worked as a service writer, the service manager had, in his head, a mental list of those customers who basically got put to the back of the line, if it all, when they called in for service. How the owner had "a little harsh" interacted with the service department was not forgotten. His word for his list, which of course I would never apply to you, was his "A.. H...s list." I don't think Gerber discussed this bit of insider knowledge in his Trend Articles. Rodger S.

tarheels293 Here is an Alternative: Start making your own diagrams. You have three systems, so you need diagrams for each system OR more simple OR more complex. You don't need to trace each wire. Buy a power probe. One by one you can activate each device with it, thereby tracing each powered item electronically. Research some standard simple RV electrical diagrams off the internet and use them as a starting point to them expand or change them as applicable. Do this slowly, bit by bit. Pull a fuse and see what doesn't work then replace them one by one with fuses that light up when they fail. Be positive and proactive or come and visit me in NorCal and I will help out. Rodger

jleamont "had them send me mine and it is a disaster, can't read it, its compressed onto a single page for the entire coach." Call them back, offer to pay for their time if necessary. See if they have an uncompressed version at their end OR a paper copy they can have scanned or photo copied, OR ask them if they compressed the file OR search for someone who as the program the file was compressed with, based on the extent, the letters after the dot, they may be able to uncompress the file. The file may be similar to a picture file that retains all the information so the file can be expanded or compressed. Rodger S.

"When we bought this one it was 12, I was told the only way to finance over 10 is above average credit score. My personal point of view is that the CASH cost of the used coach, inspections, upgrades, and road ready maintenance and repairs, should leave enough money in the piggy bank to pay for the on-the-road traveling costs. If I have to take a loan out on an old coach, I would rather take the dog for a walk around the block and keep looking. I suppose it would be different if I planned to go full time, but a coach really, in an of itself, means nothing to me...it is simply a vehicle to go on a journey. I know that to some of you, the coach itself, even when not moving means quite a bit to you. And I understand that. =================== "Do not be afraid of dealing on an out of town coach." I would agree, in fact I think it broadens one's choices. From my point of view an important part of that is the questions you ask. And despite being an inspector myself, I have no problem hiring an out of town inspector or service tech, before I make a trip, to confirm some of the representations being made to me by the owner. And sure, I will redo all the inspections again when I get there and take pictures as well. I would add that it is likely you will be able to talk with the current repair shop the owner is using as well. Using the VIN you can also research the history of the vehicle, and using this and other internet sites you can research the specific RV for problems and available solutions. ==================== My two biggest concerns with a used coach are water damage and the chassis/engine. If it passes along with no known endemic unsolvable problems for that specific coach, the rest can be taken care of with upgrades and repairs...just kick the Sxxx out of it. Rodger S. Note: alternative choices: $62,395 buys a 2017 Jaguar F-type - sports car purity and performance in a pretty Jaguar. Or the new F-type SVR, which raises output of the F-type R’s 5.0-liter supercharged V-8 to 575 horsepower, the price to $126,945, and top-speed potential to 200 mph, making this the hottest street Jaguar ever. Quick, precise, and supermodel gorgeous.

Yes. Rodger S.

Before I enter any coach I always check the coach with my non-contact voltage sniffer. It doesn't actually test for voltage...another discussion. If it suggests the possible presence of voltage I can followup with a direct hot skin test to verify. I did discover one hot skin coach before an inspection and one hot skin trailer at a dealership. The dealership was "shocked" to say the least. Rodger S.

Monitoring your voltage is a very good RV owner practice TBUTLER. If you don't have a built in voltage monitor there are devices that can be plugged in to a 110 socket that do that, including using ones volt meter by converting the leads to a male plug. In fact, I like the male plug as it makes a very tight secure connection compared to test leads. Rodger S.

(Edited) I put up a link on how to build a load tester, but I think that may be a bridge too far. Regardless, some problems only show up under load testing - having one 50 amp leg drop off for example, and most testers are no load devices. --------------- As always, you are on your own, especially if you can't take the time to read a basic electricity book AND followup with an RVIA electricity course. You also should read all the articles in the No Shock Zone website...plus many more sources. I recommend: Electricity Demystified, Second Edition Jan 10, 2012 by Stan Gibilisco Yes, I know Carl, you boys just wanna have fun. Rodger S.

"I have friends that still do not have any protection. They just don't seem to care." My assumption would be that they are focused on enjoying their RV and don't want to waste the time to learn the electrical nuances or educate themselves, as Carl has explained to me. In parallel, when I worked at an RV dealership, they were happy to get the pedestal ruined RVs in the door and were not enthusiastic that I was trying to sell electrical protection devices to their customers. I suspect that part of the reason there are good used values out there is that some buyers, once they have gotten past their basic warranty period, just want out of their RVs. They really don't want to deal with all the repair, maintenance, add ons, and upgrades that help keep the dream alive owning a used out of warranty motorhome. I have a long list of things to buy, beyond all the inspection requirements, that I consider part of good owner practices if and when I purchase a used-to-me motorhome. And no, I'm not in any hurry to get on the road...just yet...and my wife is not pushing me. Rodger S.

This may be a bit too much information, but there really are a lot of basics one should learn if you are gonna avoid creating more problems. Here are just a few: 1) you have three electrical systems in an RV: a) 12-volt DC automotive system, a 12-volt DC coach system, and c) a 120 volt AC coach system. 2) as to the 120 volt AC coach system: The neutral and ground in an RV electrical load center are not bonded together (known as a floating Neutral condition): the RV chassis is therefore isolated from ground. So, an RV needs to be connected to, and in fact relies on, a good ground from the pedestal when you access 120 volts AC from a pedestal/home hookup. (Hot skin conditions are worth learning about as a concept and how to identify, even if some wish to argue that such conditions are rare in practice.) So part of the analysis and good owner RV practice is verifying you have a good ground, in this instance, via the pedestal. Note: if you bond the neutral and ground in the RV, you have a floating Ground condition (vs a floating neutral as mentioned above) = this can cause nutty things to happen in your RV.......IF you also then connect to a pedestal that has reversed polarity you can become the pathway to ground for 120 volts AC, particularly if you are standing on wet ground and place your hand on a metal part of your RV. Rodger S.

Below is an illustration of a power pedestal. See wolfe10's response for the appropriate electrical setup and his suggestion about testing. You need to test for polarity and voltage. Note that starting from the left there are two 50 amp breaker switches. The reason they are there is that you actually receive two 50 amp legs off the left 4 prong plug, as wolfe10 said. There are two types of dog bones (30 male, 50 female OR 30 female, 50 male). "Not knowing squat about electrical matters," means you need to be skeptical about representations...Just remember, they may not be accountable or liable for their representations. None of the forum members are and neither am I. Consider getting some appropriate RV electrical training and upgrading your knowledge. If you screw up, you can expect upwards of $3,000 to $6,000 of damage to your coach. You should have power protection installed as well for (and also use it wherever you store your RV...even your house): Surges Mis-wired Electrical Pedestals High & Low Voltage Other Miscellaneous Electrical Problems If you screw up we will all commiserate with you, but personally I will be happy it is not me screwing up. Rodger S.

Unless it is something simple and obvious, like having left the cutoff switch in the off position or just replacing a fuse, I think you should have a service technician troubleshoot the problem(s) for you. If you are in Nor Cal, you can swing by my place for an assist. A locally owned shop or mobile technician would generally be a better choice than a name brand dealership unless you or another person would recommend a specific service technician at that dealership based on their "recent" experiences. As to lifespan, it is basically the life of your warranty, though I'm sure many would disagree with me. I define it that way because the mfg sets that time limit to minimize their loss exposures due to the potential for poor or no maintenance by owners, usage time, mileage exposure to vibrations assumptions, and quality. I tend to think of this as an opportunity to take an electrical class and study RV electrical knowledge, but that does take time away from enjoying your RV as some would remind me. Rodger S.

The following website has generic information on MH construction at the factory. I found it doing a simply internet search. http://mobilehomedoctor.com/mobile-home-construction-at-the-factory/ MHs are built to HUD standards. ------------------ You may be able to get specific information from an owner that had this issue, Fleetwood, or an RV upgrader. ------------- One way to do this is talk to several RV upgraders, tell them what you want, and ask them to bid for the work. You can also ask them to explain how they would do the work, then consider your options including doing it yourself. There may be electrical wires in the wall, insulation, etc. to deal with. ===== I would read through all the comments then upload a question to the author. ------------ At the rental dealership I worked at the basic idea was to just "Kick and rip the crap out of everything." Be bold. Check this website out. http://www.diynetwork.com/how-to/rooms-and-spaces/walls-and-ceilings/all-about-ceiling-and-wall-construction Rodger S.