RodgerS

Thanks for the response. RodgerS.

Just a note, and without any disrespect to any owner who makes his best efforts taking care of his coach. I'm a darned good inspector and my point of view is the coach is only as good as I say it is.

I do extended warranty inspections for them. They have always treated me well as an inspector and the inspection process takes between two, to three and a half hours to complete depending on any problems I find and the owner's familiarity with the coach. I think the inspections I do are well worth the initial cost of the insurance based on the problems I have found and helped the owners solve to get their warranty. My eyes see things that others seem to miss. I was formally trained as both a technician and an inspector after my retirement.

"...you will know that you have a trouble free unit!" I did not know there was such a thing. ================================ "I would have jumped on a plane by now" I'm in no hurry, but thanks. My wife and I will jump on a plane to France later this year. ================================ "he really would rather be" That is a phrase I left behind when I retired. I'm more of a "has been" and don't care to be anything. ================================= Thanks for all the excellent advice, Really, very much appreciated, but there are plenty of coaches out there and the wife kind of wants a 5th and we are going to Yosemite tomorrow and I'm quite relaxed about the whole thing. The nice thing about cash is that it is always spendable tomorrow for the next great deal that seems to always come along.

"A lot of folks are afraid of the larger DP coach!" Fear is probably the strongest emotional driver and it will often lead you to making poorer decisions. My wife will be spending 3 hours in Kentucky at the RVSEF conference in May learning how to drive a Class A safely.

Your experience backs up the assumption that the 3 upgrades I was focused on have too limited or negative effects as to ride-ability. Thank You. One poster on some forum said that most of his friends purchased their units with only a couple of months or so of research and walking around shows and lots. Those buyers commonly ended up buying a series of units before they settled into what they needed. I think the availability of credit when working supports that approach. I have been researching this for about 2 years after my retirement from my service business unrelated to this industry. During that time I earned my RVIA Certified Electrical Specialist and Inspector designations. I also worked 60 hours a week 6 days a week for 3 1/2 months at a RV rental center as a technician. Did just about everything. Now I do RV extended warranty inspections. Also took some appliance classes, like A/C, from Northampton. I'm in no hurry to buy as I have plenty of day trips in Northern California to keep me occupied during my retirement and a Boxer puppy I have been training daily. Susan and I will go to Yosemite this Wednesday for the day. I will buy used for cash and would like to buy once and be done...and I think I will also continue to travel internationally. I will probably buy a used Newmar Dutch Star or a used Country Coach. I don't really feel I need buying help at this point or suggestions, but getting a bit firmer resolution of a couple of issues that I feel are gray areas, is part of my ongoing research. I will be in Kentucky in May 2016 at the RVSEF conference where my wife will get a 3 hour driving lesson in a Class A. My wife and I plan to take 2 to 3 month extended trips a couple of times a year and not sell our home in Northern California. My wife is from China and is new to this concept. I have traveled and lived in a C, a truck with a camper on its bed, and a truck with a trailer. Though that was many years ago. For several months I explored the 5th option seriously, but find it doubtful I will go that direction as when I get the quality of a used 5th that I would want it tends to lead to owning a semi hauler. The cost of a high quality used dp is very favorable, in particular since I'm a very good inspector (based on client feedback) and I feel very comfortable with tearing apart, maintaining, and repairing all the home components of a MH. I will probably help other RVers that I run into while on the road. I am currently working on my appliance and chassis specialist designations.

Brett: I was hoping mostly to hear from those who have put the question 2 upgrades in, but a suspension instructor will do. There are very few posts available from buyers of Firestones, Kelderman's or Sumos. That may be an answer itself because of the lack of past buyers talking up the benefits of their installs. Advanced member Texas: "Handling can be improved with some after market stuff but probably not the ride." I agree that handling can be improved, but I'm not so sure the ride ability is a totally dead issue, but maybe it is... just due to the lack of happy buyers posting their successful stories. Advanced member with Pets: "why wouldn't the coach builder add equipment that will help their product standout from competitors" My personal take is that gas Class A coaches are viewed as targeted to new buyers who won't be traveling much and that some of the upgrades, being subjective as Brett says, can be added easily, so why raise the price point from the mfg perspective? Same issue as low and high voltage protection...easy to add and easy to argue the coach should come with it. It seems very common that mfgs put basic and low quality things like tires, batteries, converters, and inverters because they feel they have to, but know that most customers will upgrade those items after they gain some experience using an RV. Hard to sell an RV or MH without tires on it, for example, and new buyers often don't know the difference or what is missing that they should have.

Please don't turn this into a gas vs diesel topic. This is a new technology topic best answered by those who have used these upgrades, recently. Gas Suspension Notes I have read many forum safety and handling upgrade comments regarding the gas F53 V10 options, and an article by the RV Doctor “Improving Motorhome Ride, Handling, and Steering,” that mention such things as weight distribution, tire inflation, testing the shock springs, replacing the shocks with Bilsteins or Konis, the cheap handling fix, sway bars, checking the alignment, a true track bar, a steering dampner, rear air bags, and rear stabilizer bar. These items seem to be well understood as adding good value. Questions 1) Can the gas F53 suspension ride be upgraded to allow for a reasonably comfortable ride across the U.S. or is a dp the only reasonable option? 2) If yes, are front air bags from Firestone, air bag and softer spring from Kelderman’s, or front Summos the key?

Hello Carl, I owned a smaller C class Toyota truck before my business overwhelmed me...I hated it...kept bumping my head when I would get out. As of today, I don't own an RV unless you consider my Mercedes with its top down or my Boxer dog Mace an RV, so mostly my wife and I do day trips. We are going to Yosemite this Wednesday. We are heading out to RVSEF in Kentucky in May for their conference. My wife will be taking one of their 3 hour Class A driving courses. I'm now working on my appliance specialist which should be fairly easy for me, but I have to prepare for the test and I still want to go back through the materials. Then I will work on my chassis specialist. I will be in buying mode at some point, probably 10 months to 2 years from now and be looking for a well taken care of dp and jeep (my wife always wanted one). The owner care taking is a key element. I will be willing to pay cash at that time...just waiting for the funds to free up. My budget is 80k to 130k for the dp itself. We plan to start with 3 month road trips, traveling around the U.S. Just don't think a 5th is the best choice and my wife is beginning to understand my point of view. Note: just had Mace neutered and he acts like nothing happened. Very resilient personality. Took him to the Vet's place yesterday to check on his recovery and acted like I took him to a party when we got there. Note: the doc said to give him 3 doses of phenobarbital to slow him down or 2 doses if 3 are too much. Didn't affect him at all so gave him 4 doses this morning...no effect either. I guess I will give the med back to the doc. Tough customer.

"We want the Two Holer because the older we get, the more often the "urge" strikes us both at the same time!" Perfectly understandable. Fortunately my wife is 15 years younger than me.

I think the so-called downsizing trend is also relevant, to bring this up as a follow up on "Having said that, if we had a S & B residence and only traveled part time, we would probably have something in the 32-36 foot size with much less stuff to keep up with, maybe even, gasp, a gasser!" ​There are a small number, if not a growing number of down sizers (reading across forums) who use to own 40 ft dp coaches. This is certainly opposite of "we found that newer coaches pretty much all have two bathrooms and huge closets." They switched to a B class floor plan or something closer to a 32 Tiffin Breeze floor plan. When I read their topics, they sound a bit like me, which is why I'm not totally committed to a 40ft dp just yet. They, like me, often have an interest in mixing in some international travel. My wife wants to go to France later this year, for example. Well yes, if I was going full-time floor plan would probably be much more important. One couple I read wanted the 1 and 1/2 bath because they wanted their grandchildren to accompany them from time to time. It is still not out of the picture for me to abandon the mh and go 5th. So maybe I'm in this forum to toss this around a bit more before I commit.

You could classify me as a first time buyer if you want, so weight my thoughts accordingly, though I have some experience way back when and since retirement have earned my RV electrical specialist and inspector designations. I do MH extended warranty inspections. My wife saw a new Tiffin Allegro 34ft plus gas yesterday and we thought the floorpan would be just fine for the two of us. If I can satisfy myself that dealing with the safety, suspension, and ride ability upgrades will be sufficient we might go that size, but maybe with Newmar, and buy a used version. Alternatively, we might buy a used dp or 5th. We have no intention of selling our house or living in any unit full-time, and plan to do some int'l traveling. Since we are apt to put on more miles than time in one spot, we will probably buy a used 40ft dp and I will just adjust the floorplan as our needs change. Solves a lot of gas suspension and other issues easily. Many people focus on floor plan and encourage that to be the main focus, but quality and matching to use is more important to me. Maybe since my wife and I don't feel the need for more than 1 bathroom, more than one bed, or room for socializing, and I am great at simplified cooking and love to eat out, that kinds of simplifies it. I just need a good recliner and a good bed. My wife seems to need her phone to call China and take pictures. She says where I go and how I go, she is happy to follow. Happy husband, happy life.

Here is a link to an article that is still very relevant. http://www.rvdoctor.com/2004/11/improving-motorhome-ride-steering-and.html I think there are three issues: safety, stability, and ride ability. Whenever you make a change it affects other issues. Taking your MH to a recognized suspension shop is probably a good idea to help sort this out. The Sumo, Firestone airbags, and Kelderman's softer spring+air bag for the front should all be considered in addition to: weight distribution, tire inflation, testing the shock springs, replacing the shocks with Bilsteins or Konis, the cheap handling fix, sway bars, checking the alignment, a true track bar, a steering dampner, rear air bags, and rear stabilizer bar. However, I don't think you will find it easy to sort it all out in any forum unless you are lucky and just happen to hit the right combo of things that achieve your goal if you are doing this on your own.This is such a gray and moving target that it is hard to put a finger on how to achieve the best end results are and just how good the end results are. Sort of a function of how you use your unit, what unit you have (as mentioned) and your own personal expectations and needs. Hopefully this discussion won't receive diesel unit input because it won't be relevant to assisting you with the solutions you are looking for. My wife gets car sick and that is never eliminated from our trips. It appears to me that the Class A gas industry leaves it up to the consumer, for the most part, to sort it out for themselves.

Hello Carl, one question at the end of this post. I joined the forum some time ago and my first post was for huffypuff, to share my generic multiple forum experiences with him. I understand completely what he has experienced in other forums. I have plans to be in Kentucky in May 2016 for the RVSEF conference. I will put my wife through their 3 hour driver training that is being offered. Mostly I'm bringing my wife up to speed as we will soon be shifting into buying mode. I'm retired from an unrelated service industry. Since my retirement two years ago I earned my Certified RV Electrical Specialist from RVIA and Inspector designation from NRVIA (unrelated to RVIA). I also spent 3 1/2 months at a rental RV dealership getting my hands on experience with gas Class A and Class C entry level rental units...too old to spend 60 hours a day, 6 days a week having fun repairing RVs, but I truly loved it. (Note: also have taken A/C and other speciality classes from Northampton U and am working on my appliance specialist designation from RVIA as well) I currently do extended warranty inspections as needed for an extended warranty company. My wife really likes the 5th wheel floor plans, but after I helped her understand what 5th wheel owners work with vs Class A owners, she now is focusing on us buying a used premium dp (probably a Newmar or Country Coach) since we will be putting on the mileage based on my goal of seeing the U.S, and not sitting long in one place most of the time. (Susan was born in China and it took a bit for her to grasp the RV traveling concept since it is not common in China.) If we were planning on full-timing or staying for long periods in one spot, we would probably get a 5th, even understanding that the setups and takedowns are faster these days with the new technology and great new 1 ton trucks that are available as daily drivers. Actually, I need an RV to work on for fun, as long as the owner pays for the parts. If you know anyone out in Northern California that wants to make a friend, let me know? After I get my MH, it will be "Have tools, will be traveling, happy to help."

I think of the various generic and specific RV forums as useful primarily for newer members and as a social gathering place for longer-term members. I also am an ex-forum member of several forums and have not suffered any downsides from it. I believe that one should avoid becoming too vested in any forum, the give and takes, or the responses that unfortunately don't come with a "buyer beware" warning. Written words usually come off harsher than the same words in a face-to-face conversation, and sometimes reflect the current personal emotional issues of the moment. Say what you think, your way, and if it is unacceptable, move on. A general internet search on a specific subject can often provide an accessible link to the information you need while searching across many forums and other websites. Better may be to focus more of your energies on the education courses and materials out there. But that takes an investment in time and a dedication to relying more on your own research and hands on skills. Mfs also have training courses and there are plenty of youtube videos to train off of. And don't forget the manuals and trouble shooting information in them. Always remember that a person who is not a professional and is not being paid for their work, may want to be recognized as knowledgeable and important, but much more often than a professional, provide less than useful or less than harmless advice. Some just don't like it if you disagree with their "experienced" opinions. and the basis or context for some opinions may never surface. Don't assume you can have a vigorous argument without ruffling someones feathers.