RodgerS

Just one last thought. I think I have done somewhere in the range of 12 to 20 motorhome extended warranty inspections. None of the extended warranty buyers seemed to have much RV technical knowledge, even those having previously owned an RV. Many of the members who post to various threads on this site seem to be much more actively involved and curious about their motorhomes, in comparison.

Balderdash. My thought is that new to RV owners often feel more comfortable with a warranty, both new and extended. Some have been very happy with the results and for them the cost was justified.

What do these last four posts have to do with Sumo Springs? Seems like you guys should be using personal email or some other part of the forum. The last four posts and this post should be deleted by whoever is managing the forum. Rodger S.

To add to this discussion, I ran across a youtube video by "Ken Perry of Henderson's Line-Up explains the product benefits of the Sumo Springs Vs. stock bump-stops. These "Airless Airbags" will help to eliminate body roll and improve handling of your motorhome. Please visit http://www.HendersonsLineUp.com/ or schedule an appointment at Henderson's Line-Up by calling (541) 479-2882. Henderson's Line-Up, 417 Henderson St., Grants Pass, OR 97527." I have read a lot of positive posts about RV owners who have had good luck with Hendersons.

My advice, if you are planning on doing your own electrical work, would be to back up a bit and start with a basic electrical book or course. Then follow that up with studying general electrical knowledge of rv systems - you need to know that you are working with three systems. What one would consider as a suitable electrical tool tends to depend quite a bit on ones level of electrical knowledge and ones expectations of what one intends to do with that particular tool. There are many internet sources for rv knowledge building - I found the youtube videos particularly helpful, as well as many rv related websites. Very easy to locate this stuff. My formal training was through RVIA and the related colleges. The one or two week RV specific hands on courses are good starter courses as well. Having your own rv is very helpful. The reason I worked for a short time at an rv rental place was so I could practice all my electrical and other skills, as well as the speciality skills I was learning, since I don't own a coach yet. These days, much of my skill maintenance is via coach extended warranty inspections. I think you risk serious damage to your coach if you don't understand the why and how things work, and the strengths and limits of your tools. One clear example of the severe knowledge gap between new owners and the rv industry is when new owners realize they need high and low voltage power protection for their rv after they purchase their rv. One bad experience can result in $1,500 to $3,500 of damage, that was easily avoided. There is a tremendous difference between just replacing parts until you get something working, going down a short list of the most common reasons for a failure based on ones personal experience, and actually doing the real deal of applying troubleshooting skills with appropriate tools. All of the technicians I worked with could do the first and second steps. What kept them from doing the troubleshooting was lack of formal training, limited tools, and an inability to rely on research, manuals, and specific mfg technical materials. There are some troubleshooting technicians out there, but most owners are unable to locate them or even determine the caliber of someone working on their coach. Rodger S.

Simply replacing components (standard practice at dealerships), until the system works, is an accepted RV service practice as few technicians or owners have taken an a/c class. ===================== I would recommend taking a detailed RV a/c class, as I did, before trying to do troubleshooting on an A/C system,and to build your own specialized a/c troubleshooting tool like I did. If you are able to roll out to my place in the Bay Area, I would be happy to assist. Rodger S.

I guess it is even worse when you pay someone to make a mess of it. ObedB, have you ever thought about putting a PowerProbe into your tool box? Rodger S.

RJ, It would probably be helpful if your friend became a member and could directly interact with the experienced members. Much usually gets lost in a three-way translation. =================== No mention of who did the changeout, but likely not someone with much experience with RVs, which leads to... RVs are great learning tools, money pits, and all good things come to those who are very, very patient. At least that is what they tell me. Rodger S.

Bill, Carl, There are a lot of CC and Monaco coaches for sale in Oregon at http://premierrvservices.com, which at a minimum my wife and I will take a trip up there. They do throw on some pretty steep premiums onto the starting prices on some of the coaches. It appears that it will be easy to get a CC or Monaco coach from them if you have $150k to spend, however, and they do have quite a few units with 200K plus asking prices. My perspective is that it is primarily a chassis inspection issue to minimize the chance of major chassis (to include the engine) failure repairs too soon out the door. Also, for $150k, it looks pretty doable to get into a privately owned 2008 or later model Newmar Dutch Star based on national searches. My wife and I have delayed our trip to France based on all the "txxxxx issues" and the slowness of various involved governments to strongly deal with all this. Oh, and Carl, I didn't say I was "miserable or unhappy about a DP.." What I was saying, in different words, was that I'm not all that unhappy that I don't own a dp just yet. My wife kind of still wants a 5th, so we will also take a trip to http://www.rollingretreats.com/RollingRetreatsInventory.html where they seem willing to find a way for us to experience that class of RV for comparisons purposes with a DRV unit and various heavy duty trucks. I may have to pay a few $$ for a day or two of driving with someone and go through setups and breakdowns, and backing up. My research seemed to indicate it is not too hard to rent a 5th, but renting a truck set up to pull a 5th is much more difficult, so maybe paying an owner for his time with me in the passenger seat is an option. I think my Boxer won't care, so that will not be a swing vote I have to consider. Rodger S.

"I asked for a quote but was turned down because I live in California." I have done about a dozen inspections in California. I live in the Bay Area. So, I find that statement by richs050 to be confusing.

This is the only thread I have read in a year that makes sense to me. I don't see how it is possible to discuss cost issues, without having a good steak and some beers at the same time. As usual the truth is very elusive as to who can cook the best steak. Before I travel up to look at some Country Coaches in Oregon, I need to figure out if I'm miserable enough/unhappy enough to buy one.

Below quote from another forum. Can anyone translate it? "From what I have seen, that (used) 2-5 year old top of the line coach will be more costly than a new Dutch Star or equivalent." ==== (Background: I'm currently looking at Country Coaches in the range of 8 to 10 years old. Ignoring upgrades or remodeling or new tires, assuming the coach was maintained well per documentation, passes water leak inspection and fluid tests, and otherwise passes detailed inspection of the house and chassis...unless I'm just unlucky and it is just time for a major chassis failure, seems like the quote above is not well thought out. )

"Rodger. The greatest chefs in the world, use recipes!" "Use" is the troublesome word Carl vs "duplicated." Chef Gaby, who trained at 2 and 3 Michelin star restaurants, said he and his sous chef recently experimented with well over 100 variations of ingredients and flavors to create one of his signature dishes at his French restaurant in SF...yes, he does provide his cooks the "recipe" so they can consistently replicate his creations for their customers. My key "book" is The Flavor Bible, The essential guide to culinary creativity. It has no recipes in it. Recently I made a chimichurri sauce, using a list of ingredients from a recipe (what did you just say Rodger???). I went to my flavor bible and looked up cumin. That told me that the taste is bitter, sweet AND that they need to be added early in the cooking process. I know that to bring out that sweetness I have to toast them brown, not burnt, but until I can see them smoking a bit, to bring out that sweetness and increase their flavor. The ingredient list shows 1/3 cup (80 ml) of red wine vinegar. I had some cabernet wine vinegar that I slowly added in because its flavor is very powerful. I don't think I add more than a 1/3 of the 1/3 of a cup called for on this list, otherwise it would have blown out the taste. Obviously, I wasn't that creative, but in addition to what I did above, I looked up all the ingredients in my flavor bible to refresh my memory, and I didn't measure the ingredients but tasted my way through it. I didn't grind the cumin too fine as I wanted some texture. The are a lot of ways to fill a cup of parsley or a cup of cilantro or a cup of flour. If you say I used a recipe = ok, but no I didn't try to duplicate it and because I taste a lot and understand my cooking processes it, as usual, it worked out great. Well not the best example, but there it is...I'm not the greatest chef, but I try to think like a chef within my constraints. You could say that burn your recipes for me means to avoid getting stuck on duplicating them...that is my interpretation of burn your recipes or toss out your recipes. Tip: by the way, bakery goods are considered formulas. You get consistent results if you weight, not measure your ingredients! A cup of flour today is different tomorrow if you go by measures instead of weight. Rodger S. Thanks Carl for inspiring me to write this. Rodger and Out

Thanks for your kind reply TButler. The reason I write long replies is so that I can provide some of my thoughts in addition to and support for my opinion. ============================== To Five: The issue is not if an appliance works, but matching the appropriate cooking method, and the appliance, to the results you want. If you can cook without recipes, and are process focused, then what I'm saying should make sense.

Hello Carl, my name is spelled Rodger. Rodger S.

The definition of rant is: 1. "To speak or write in an angry or emotionally charged manner; rave. 2. To express at length a complaint or negative opinion." Neither of those definitions apply to my post, Bill. However... It would be accurate to characterize it as a "penser tout haut," expressed in writing. As to relevance, I could have said that if you have a good BBQ grill you can toss out your coach microwave/convection oven. But, I prefer to provide the information and let people come to their own conclusions. Needs vary.

"I'm quite sure the issue of a conventional oven can be answered by the convection microwave oven for many coach owners, but not for my needs." The answer is primarily one of convenience, which is relevant in a MH. Microwaves, as such, are best for reheating and heating, not cooking. Microwaves tend to dehydrate a lot of products. Convection ovens cook by circulating dry heat. A coach convection oven is not equal to a residential convection oven and a residential convection oven is not equal to a commercial convection oven. Just because a coach convection oven has a little fan in it, does not make it a good residential or commercial convection oven. But it is a winner as to convenience and having one rather than none. In fact, there is a huge difference between an at home convection oven vs a commercial one, and the fans are not the only issues, but the cooking elements are also a big issue, which is why a MH oven is often unreliable because gas has commonly been the primary fuel source for those ovens. Have not yet seen any electric ovens yet, but then 220 is a common plug in anyway. ======== Both ovens and BBQ grills (lid down) are extremely popular appliances to cook food using dry heat without a medium such as oil, as in a saute pan. Cooks commonly avoid the convection/microwave option, but then they aren't often cooking in a MH. Of the two, grilling is an older method than the oven, but the oven is perhaps a more versatile method of cooking today. Both are dry cooking methods. Before the advent of the present day microwave oven, earthen ovens were used extensively for heating and thus, cooking foods. These were chambers that produced intense heat and cooked food in a short time. They were called Tandoor in Asian cultures, and were used to make different types of breads and roasted chicken. Grill is just a variation of application of dry heat as it involves putting food item over a heat source, usually charcoal though, modern grill make use of gas to provide direct heat in the form of flame. If we look at differences, there are many, right from shape and size to location as well as a variety of foods that can be cooked using these two cooking methods. Grills, whether they use charcoal or are gas based are bigger in size than ovens, and are usually kept in the backyard or any other outdoor place so that the smoke produced by grilling goes up in the atmosphere. On the other hand, ovens, that are mostly microwave ovens, are smaller in size, and kept inside kitchens. (Unfortunately, many men use a grill as a good excuse for burning food...many claim they are not really cooking. ) Whereas, grilling requires food to be placed on wired mesh made of a metal just above the heat source, an oven provides heat from all sides to the food item thus, heating it evenly. In some ovens, there is a provision for grilling the food item through a distinct process called broiling, where heat is provided from the top instead of below, which is characteristic of grilling otherwise. (Broiling is a very effective method that many cooks have forgotten about) In grilling, dry heat is intense and chars the food which is not the case in an oven. An oven broiler is another discussion. (When you grill you use maximum heat, but if you use your grill as an oven, the key is working with less heat. In any case, it is important to use it in combination with a wet method to avoid drying out the food.) In ovens, heat is just sufficient to brown the surface of the food item which is why oven is mostly used to prepare breads, cakes, biscuits, and some vegetables. Ovens don't conduct heat well which is why you can open your oven and stick your hand in momentarily and not burnt it vs putting your hand on metal, which is a much better conductor of heat. Meats can also be baked or broiled in an oven. However, there is a lot of difference between meats that are grilled and meats that are baked in an oven as grilled meat is full of flavors and aroma it soaks from the smoke of the fire from below. Gas vs charcoal is basically just an issue of smoke and how to produce smoke. (Which is why there is a market for smokers that are even better at it due to long smoking times at lower temperatures.) The high heat the meat gets from below develops flavors that are not there in an oven. Charring is one feature that takes place only in a grill and not in the oven but this charring is what makes meats delicious. However, burnt food vs charring destroys flavors. One of things I have learned is to get rid of duplicative appliances. I prefer to use a good grill with the lid down as an oven and toss the microwave/convection oven from my house and it follows from the coach I plan to buy. In fact, I keep throwing appliances and the related stuff out. Basically, a good chef's knife, with trained knife skills added, starts the changes in ones perspective. Edit: before someone accuses me of saying one can't cook in a MH convection oven or that someones cooking is no good...please reread and notice I don't say that.

My short list was developed by reading a lot of threads in various forums. My personal definition of quality/level of coach was critical, as was my willingness to remodel the inside, my diy skills, inspector skills, house service skills, and lack of chassis skills. ================= My wife really would prefer a 5th, as would I, but based on our planned usage we have settled on a coach. Our first step is buying the toad, which should happen in July. My wife has not yet focused on the need to fit our Boxer into the toad once we have arrived at our destination. A smart car won't do, from my perspective. ======================== The cooking challenge has been the hardest part to deal with having settled on a coach. A residential oven is the hardest appliance to do without, but that can be in large part dealt with by buying a good BBQ grill/smoker and cooking with the lid down and a good baking/grilling stone (one option). Having finished cooking school, I have ditched most of our popular appliances. ================= As to the length issue, I have sort of resolved to simply make due with a better toad on the assumption that we will likely spend more time in the private parks than I first assumed. Need someone to share my bakery end-products with, if nothing else. ================== I didn't find the pros and cons of gas vs diesel, and mh vs 5th very useful at the end of the day. If I'm flying, I need an airplane, even if I would rather take a boat.

When I worked at an RV rental location, those doing the washing of the units were very poorly educated, the lowest paid of the workers, and I don't think they own an RV or get to enjoy the RV life. On the other hand, I know nothing about the wash and wax contractors at CW. There are high-end detailers where I live that are very detailed oriented and knowledgeable about doing a good wash and waxing. Of course, the price charged for that service is quite high, but then they meet my expectations, and from time to time they detail out an RV.

Good to hear that the money was well spent and you made some progress on getting a better ride.

I live in the North West of California and spent quite some time in the South of California. My tendency is to see it as an issue of travel mobility/flexibility and not one of RV locations, private or boon docking, though there are a few about and up north in the mountain areas. In the Santa Barbara area there are some RV parks near the ocean and apparently just South of SF as well. The San Francisco, coastline, Napa/Yountville, Walnut Creek, Yosemite, and other areas are pretty built up now with lots of traffic, and much of what draws people here can make good use of mobility for access. And the areas are quite varied and change circumstances quickly. Many tourists take advantage of ample bus tours and various modes of transport. However, I think the advantage goes to those travelers who would either rent a place for an extended stay in some of the sleepier areas like Solano County or have a highly mobile class B to quickly adjust to the changing circumstances. For example, a gorgeous trip along the coast on Hy1 is not, in my opinion, a good road for long RVs, but great for motorcycles, cars, and class Bs. If you have a truck with a camper for boon docking, you can get back into some great remote areas up north, but otherwise, well it all depends on your point of view and risk profile. For some RVing is a journey, but I'm more destination focused without limitation to what transport gets me there.

My recommendation is to locate a place (for rent) to stay (extended stay) in Solano County, which is halfway between San Francisco and Sacramento. Then use your car to access, like the spokes of a wheel, San Francisco, Napa and Yountville, Walnut Creek, Benicia, and the coastal areas north of San Francisco. Leave the MH at home.

"Very nice coach" is not an answer to the question...How does that make it a better buy for a "solely recreational, 6-mos of the year user?"

Carl, my name is Rodger, unless that is part of your point. à point in French cooking is medium rare, which is to say your point is not "well done."

"not in the same class" Thanks for the Newmar site reference, I have been there many times and I'm aware of their line up. How does that make it a better buy for a "solely recreational, 6-mos of the year user?" On the other hand, if you are making the argument that since many rv owners are entertainment oriented and that the "class" i.e "status" of the person is important as to who they wish to associate with and entertain, and the RV you choose helps you decide who to associate with and who to not associate with, then I understand your point. Same issue as not allowing coaches into a park beyond a certain age, etc. Rodger