RodgerS

Demeyere pans Global knives Kitchen Aid Mixer Thermoworks Quick Read Digital Probe Green Mountain Pellet Grill/Smoker Kitchen on Fire Cooking School Chef Mohr's Web Cooking School Rodger S.

The return of the venerable cast iron pan...excellent option, holds the heat. Rodger S.

I hate it when I agree with Carl. Rodger S.

"The quality is not what I expected." "We paid the difference thinking we were getting quality. That turned out not to be the case." Sorry to hear that, but I'm not surprised...two more common stories. Now would be a good time to read the 8 expose articles about the industry in RVdailyreport.com...would like to be more comforting. Rodger S.

"This size coach may take some folks out with the price point," Not true. 2004 Travel Supreme 45′, $119K 67k miles, barely broken in. For more information call Louie 541-953-6729, or Susan 541-953-4765 on their mobile number. http://www.premierrvservices.com/inventory/ Rodger S.

For your new oven! Try to cook based on what is in season as you walk through a local farmer's market. Don't think recipe first. ============= Today I purchased some heirloom tomatoes. Cut about a 1/4 off the top, scoop out a small depression. Mix some Panko crumbs mixed with some extra virgin olive oil, and fill the depression. Spread a good layer of crumbly blue cheese or thin slices of blue cheese on top. ============= Heat your grill, cover down until max hot. Don't put the tomato on top of a hot grill where the "flame" is directly underneath or you will have a mess. If you have two burners. Heat using one burner and place the tomatoes on the non-flame grill side. Lid down. Won't take long. Done when the blue cheese is melted and the tomato is soft. Next time adjust the heat for your cover down oven as you think appropriate as each grill is different, in particular if there are any burnt parts...or check things more often............. However, every time you open the oven cools things down and stuff takes longer. Alternatively experiment with a cooking stone or equivalent, as you would for cooking a pizza inside your grill, if you don't have a hot and warm side. The raised portion of the grill might work out just fine too. Oven grilling = lid down, lower or high heat. Grilling = lid up always max heat. But always lid down to head the grill and clean the grates a bit. ========== Oven grill chicken wings in fry pan, cover down, max heat vs fried in oil wings. Massively good, crispy, and you just need salt and pepper. Be sure to carefully cut excess fat off wings...not needed. Be sure to heat the fry pan before, so the wings sizzle when you thrown them on. ========== Made smoked ribs yesterday. 4 hours to marinate, 6 hours to smoke 180 degrees, 2 to 4 hours based on desired texture 240 degrees. The advantages of temperature controlled pellet grills!!! Visitors must bring quality beer or quality wine. Cheap tickets eat at MacDonalds. Uncivil, messy, and noisy neighbors need to agree to cut you some slack if they want to eat. Change behaviors through good cooking invitations. Stop complaining and being irritated! Carl, you are invited as soon as we can get together. Rodger S.

I would focus more on replacing RV refrigerators when their warranty expires and installing a fire suppression system in the engine bay. These are two well documented common reasons fires occur in motorhomes. Then advocate having a habitation service performed yearly and upgrading the emergency exits on motorhomes. http://www.rvtechmag.com/tech/28_firesafety.php "Your typical motorhome is constructed from highly flammable materials. Add in the fact that your motorhome carries propane plus either gasoline or diesel fuel, throw in a maze of electrical systems and wiring and then bounce it down the road until something fails, and you quickly realize that there is a fair amount of potential for a fire to start. Most RV fires begin in one of two areas: Typical RV refrigerators utilize evaporative cooling, which utilize a propane burner or electric element to provide that heat. If the propane burner on the back of the refrigerator overheats it can easily start a fire. On a rear-engine diesel pusher there is also the potential for an engine bay fire. Diesel engines are turbocharged and the turbocharger gets very hot during operation, especially when climbing grades. If a hydraulic line or fuel line were to leak, it can easily spray fuel over the engine compartment. Once ignited by the hot turbocharger, it can quickly get out of control. RVs are equipped with a fire extinguisher, per NFPA code. However, these only meet the minimum requirements set by law. It has no bearing on its ability to adequately extinguish a fire in your RV. It's generally undersized and not up to the task." =============================== Per Caravan Guard. 1) 30% of the fires occurred when the motorhome was in storage. 2) 14% Electrical or engine faults when on the road when driven. We’ve handled many claims where policyholders have noticed smoke coming from either the rear or under the bonnet of the motorhome. (electrical faults don’t develop overnight) 3) 8% refrigerators. "Many motorhome fires are preventable. It’s recommended that motorhomes, their base vehicles and their habitation areas are serviced on an annual basis, even if the motorhome isn’t used that often. This is because problems can occur during long periods of storage. It’s important to have the motorhome base vehicle serviced for two main reasons: it must be deemed roadworthy by a qualified mechanic and there must be no signs of deterioration on tyres, suspension, in the engine and in other areas." "A full habitation service for example, covers gas pipes and water heater checks, sockets and charging systems, alarms and ignitions, lights, exhausts, tyre pressure, seals and even fridges. Fridges are a surprisingly common factor in motorhome fires, in fact they account for 8% of all motorhome fire claims." "The claims team here at Caravan Guard recently heard from one customer whose motorhome caught fire whilst in transit (see image above and below). The engine fire was caused by an undiscovered bird/rodent nest in the motorhome’s exhaust. The fire was so severe, the motorhome – a 2012 American A-Class worth around £130,000 – was written off. Our underwriters, Royal and Sun Alliance (RSA), went on to refund the amount in full." http://www.caravanguard.co.uk/news/fire-risks-when-storing-your-motorhome-5650/ ============

My Boxer does not get to sit on the furniture or the bed. Last night, he was looking longingly at the bed, but he got a firm NO! from me. Yes, if yours do, then certainly keep the couch. Check with the fluid testing service as to their recommendations based on mileage or time, as to when to pull the samples and establish the baselines. Roughly about 5 different fluids to pull and test. You can order a complete testing kit and learn to pull your own samples. Some samples may not be easy to pull. Basically a simple tube attached to a plastic suction device. No need to change the fluids. As to the water inspection, if they did not do a bubble test, get one done. If anything was missed something will bubble out. Even the best hands and eyes can miss something. I would research the Armor roof. Be sure to inspect twice a year for water intrusion, one of those being a bubble test. County Coach is at the top of my list, but probably closer to 40 feet since I only have one Boxer and visitors can pitch a tent. If you haven't, check out the Custom BBQ grill for the basement post. However, I would prefer a Green Mountain, Davy Crockett size smoker/grill and style because there is something special about smoked ribs. I have the Daniel Boone size at home at it is really excellent. I have had thoughts of towing a 1/2 ton truck that can hold my smoker and a place for Mace in the back seat when on site. However, my grill requires 110 voltage, so good use of the 30 amp plug in on the pedestal. Whether or not you install or attach a low and high voltage protection (a bit more than surge protection) please do become comfortable testing the pedestal, monitoring voltage, and being able to do a hot skin test. A simple hand held voltage sniffer is a great safety device, but it doesn't actually test for a voltage...so you have to be able to do a real confirmation test with a multimeter. But, better to get a false positive, rather than miss a hot coach. Check you friends coach with the sniffer before you grab onto the coach. Rodger S.

One good thing is that it pulls out a good bit away from the coach. Another is the table top to lay a tray of ribs on, etc. The two wooden doors should hold the grill from moving around towards the bay door when traveling. I assume when the grills are removed you have access to the drip pan. The critical part is the robustness of the bottom tray and that there is sufficient room between the lid when up and the table top. You probably know that with the lid down you have a second oven. Rodger S.

1) As to the baseline maintenance, I would be sure to have fluid samples pulled and analysis done for trend starting points. There are some very specific Country Coach specialists that I assume you are using for the chassis as well as qualified diesel mechanics. Some are in Oregon, among other places. 2) Now would be a good time to have water damage/leak inspections done. There are various ways to do that, which include a detailed and slow hands and eye inspection, infrared, and bubble leak detection methods. 3) The CCs I have inspected were in good shape with very little rust. However, it has been reported that some of the outside storage areas on some builds were not coated in rust preventative, so I would check each storage area carefully. 4) You are of course replacing the tires if they are 5 years beyond the DOT date. 5) You are of course going through the electrical system carefully, looking for evidence of warm or hot wiring/loose connections and doing some creative electrical preventative maintenance. 6) You will, of course, put in some low/high voltage protection, tire temp monitors, etc. 6a) You might want to have a complete flush out of the black and grey tanks by an RV sanitizing service. 7) Just because it is me, I would throw out the couch and put in a couple of recliners, and put in a dining room table so there is room for a crate and raised dog bed for my 75 lb boxer, Mace. Mace is very much a working dog and needs a lot of engaged strong effort work outs. An amazing dog. I could go on, but those are my first thoughts. Rodger S.

I think Gerber's target readers are new to the lifestyle, working families, buying entry-level units, taking a couple weeks, more or less, of a vacation every year. If Gerber is correct, for those target readers, enjoying the lifestyle is getting harder for those wishing to enter it, and it will get worse. I believe the articles become less relevant/accurate from an experienced owners point of view as experienced owners seem to think and behave differently, and have work-arounds....like buying used, improving their diy skills, actively maintaining the RV, traveling off season and understanding the seasonal traffic. However, even experienced owners buy new, but they, being aware of the industry, try to buy as high end on the scale as they can afford. Note: 1 when I was in Santa Barbara, I was looking at a 2016 Newmar Ventana. The older salesman said he was surprised I was looking at it. I had told him I had not owned a MH before and he said the premium units he had sold were usually sold to previous MH owners. Note: 2 None of this prevents me from buying my MH. But, I have already put in place and considered a whole host of workarounds, in addition to the above, that I need not go into. All that said, placing $150,000 of cash on the table will not be easy because there are other equally desirable choices to owning a MH, doing all the inspections, setup and upkeep, and buying a towable. Rodger S.

Another diversion is this new concept of Blue Shield Certified Pre-Owned Program for used RVs. IMO: This is just another way to obfuscate the fact that new doesn't equal a relatively problem free RV. And, for example, there is no way they are going to be able to address the issue of existing water damage and you can bet it will not be on the inspection list or guarantee. http://rvdailyreport.com/industry/blue-shield-pre-owned-more-than-a-simple-pdi/ Rodger S.

rossboyer Pargh's article made the point that at the price point the industry is targeting, that is what the industry is capable of producing as to quality. In Gerber's articles he talked about all the shortcuts the mfgs are using to cut corners to stay within their target price points. One either accepts that as "fact" or rejects that as "false." 1) I think the basic fallacy we are dealing with is comparing the design, production, and parts of a MH to a car...no they are not comparable. This is the basic problem the industry faces. Their only answer has been more PDI's, glorifying the lifestyle, and diverting consumers with bling and beautiful interiors. (Experienced owners have their own answers) 2) Many owners complain about the worker's dedication on the production line...I believe that is fallacious thinking as well. The industry will fall on its face if a significant number of new buyers realize that their expectations are (just simply) false. That enjoying the lifestyle often requires much much more in $$$, time, and knowledge. Trust is earned and once destroyed is not easily recovered. That is why these public outings of the industry are potentially so harmful, regardless of the reasonings, the arguments, or argued lack of 100% accuracy. Rodger S.

The revolt continues...with this followup article by a 2nd journalist, they are trying to get the word out to new owners. http://rvdailyreport.com/industry/rvia-award-winning-journalist-tackles-death-spiral/ “From my personal experience and from reading the various online forums geared to RV users, it seems that initial product quality, sometimes long lead times for parts and the availability of timely service have become problems for the RV owner and have taken the word “recreation” out of recreational vehicle,” he added. “These days, you’re hard pressed to find a public forum or online user group that is not filled with user complaints. “It’s my understanding the RVIA, the industry association that honored me nearly two decades ago, is the group that sets and enforces quality standards. In the opinion of this potential Class A motorhome purchaser, it appears the RVIA’s self imposed quality standards are simply missing the mark. “Maybe this is an over-simplification from my point of view, but from what I’ve learned through my personal research experiences, it appears this organization’s responsibilities are to simply to promote and protect its own industry and is operating with a basic two-fold mission: To glorify the RV lifestyle in order to get new customers into its dealer’s showrooms. To encourage politicians from enacting regulations such as HUD building standards or Lemon Laws that could cripple its current business model. Rodger S.

As I mentioned in the "RV Industry death spiral" thread, if every prospective purchaser insisted on this contract insertion, the industry would come to a screeching halt. As I expected, there has been no response.

I just received an email from a salesman at an RV dealership that included the following phrase: "We stand ready to do whatever we can to help you find the perfect RV for your travel and camping plans." My response: Hi Luke, nice to hear from you. Have you read the eight articles on the RV industry by Gerber? RV Daily Report - RV Industry and Campground News Information Updates I was thinking about including in our purchasing contract a provision written by my attorney that basically says that the "living quarters" will be subject to state and federal lemon law buy back provisions. That would help a lot in giving me some comfort that I have chosen the perfect RV and the perfect dealership. Rodger S.

We were told to end this discussion. However, these "should" point of views need to consider that the mfgs have target price points that they consider to be buyer decision points. By providing "options" to customers, they are able to meet their target price points. I think every MH "should" come with a high low voltage protection system AND my "should" list could go on...for example, quality tires on trailers. Lots of "should" to go around. (Did I spell should wrong or use too many letters?) Rodger S.

If I was buying a new Newmar MH I would be happy to pay the $3,500. Make the connections, will be fun, improve your probabilities. It doesn't need to make sense to all New buyers and sled riders. Everyone is welcome to do it their way and do what makes sense for them. Penny wise and pound foolish OR A fool and his money is easily parted. Take your pick. Read, in this forum, the horrible story of a new American Coach owner. No right answer, just luck of the draw. By the way, I don't think you are being foolish. I think you are being proactive and savvy. When I buy used, I will probably spend at least $3,500 in inspection fees to try to avoid water damage, and getting stuck with an obvious suspension or engine disaster. And if I'm unlucky, I will have to do that more than once if I decide to walk away from a coach. Rodger S.

"That part makes no sense to me...Have already paid, so what am I paying more for?" "Wouldn't that save you money or maybe just a small amount for factory to put it in service, not that the dealers do it correctly anyway. But why the added cost?" ======================== I believe it is generally understood by those who read and comment in various forums that: 1) We read way to many horror stories regarding the build quality in this industry. RVdailyreport recently did a public outing in this regard. The horror stories include months of down time in the first couple of years due to scheduling headaches with dealers and mfgs to get the warranty work done at the dealer or with a trip back to the factory....we are talking about multiples of problems in various multiples, with multiples of downtime and multiples of trips. 2) The better mfgs, like Newmar and Grand Design for example, are using extensive and multiple PDI's as the answer AND are much more actively addressing after purchase service and warranty responses. They are the attempt at being the cutting edge of the industry, so to speak. 3) PDI's do not equal true quality control, they are a band aid. The industry, today, is where the auto industry was when the Japanese broke open the auto market with true quality control systems. Unfortunately, RVs are not and can not be made like autos. Unless you are buying a Rolls Royce, your car is not custom built and hand made for you. A Rolls Royce costs more, yet breaks down a lot and requires extreme serving...like an RV. 4) A PDI can mean many things and the lousy dealers, not uncommon, limit it to a three-page sign off that may have been done quickly or not at all. And they don't usually even want to discuss the fact they did something minimal or nothing. The cutting edge dealers, like RollingRetreats for DRV, also attempt to make PDI's their cutting edge. 5) What are you paying for at Newmar. You are substituting the dealer PDI and dealer service bays for Newmar's factory owner responsive PDI and right now, on site, service dept. My understanding is that your PDI experience will last a week or more. That during that week you will be in your RV and using it...and one or two of Newmar's top guys will be with you a lot of the time. If you have a complaint or they find an issue, your fee includes immediate access to a Newmar expert technical who will take care of the problem NOW. You will get all the training you can stand. When you leave, you will know you coach inside and out, AND you will be confident that you have gained the advantage of house odds on having a good story to tell. Now, everyone says this quality stuff costs, so you want more you pay more...not really all that difficult to understand, especially starting with the concept of the RV=money pit. (and a luxury purchase) Rodger S.

The factory pickup with a Newmar factory PDI is an excellent decision you won't regret...I have heard nothing but happy reports from owners. Rodger S.

As I mentioned, the new vs used decision seemed to me the number one issue. (Done) The next issue is matching your plans and needs to the appropriate class of rv. (Done) Since you have decided on a Class A, your budget leads you along a logical path that "seems" to be a Newmar or Tiffin gas. (Done) Length and floor plan is often an issue of where, how, and when you want to go to make it work. Traveling off vs on season AND Public vs private locales. Not much left to do but pick the floor plan and get one with it. =================== One way to involve your spouse: My wife wanted a 5th. I also like them. I took her to an RV dealership where she saw a truck with the 5th hitch in it - she was not happy with that requirement. I took her to a Chevy dealership and showed her the required tow vehicle. She was not happy with the idea of a dually. She said she had seen lots of single axle trucks on the road, but when I explained the issue of pin weight on the axles vs safety and stability she understood. ============================ She basically takes the position the decision is up to me. I make constant efforts to bring her into the decision process. Now she is more amenable to a used dp MH, my choice, with her choice of towable. However, when I told her I would put $10,000 into a checking account for remodeling, plus another $5,000 if needed, she was excited and is looking forward to buying used as a big advantage of having a coach customized the way she wants it. She asked that I get lighter colored cabinets to start with and a darker paint scheme on the outside. I will be involved just enough to keep her from doing something that would have to be redone. Bling is not a factor for her and neither is what others think. Rodger S.

harryglos, I think your most important issue is buying new or used. If you can make the mental jump and buy a used quality dp, and that includes a lot of inspection cost, time, and some upgrades, I think most used buyers tend to find themselves ahead of the game. Having cash vs credit tends to affect that decision. Quality is heavy. There are used DPs out there that sold for 400K, that are available for under 200K that will be excellent, even if you discover a problem you have to fix despite your best inspection efforts. Assuming you really want 40 ft, not 34 ft, so to speak.

"I asked Newmar if the Canyon Star would have the same problems and they said no." "I'm more concerned with the OP buying based off of what the salesperson told him assuming the OEM engineered and built it properly." And, you said, can you please put that representation in writing and agree to buy back your unit if I, the owner, am unsatisfied, and he said sure and sent a certified copy to you that your attorney said was perfect. If you are down the line disappointed that this expert/salesman, you trust, Newmar/Dealer/service representative opinion fails to match your experience/reality...you are just another forum complaint we can all commiserate with (while secretly - just me- - am happy I'm not you. ) ========================================= Actually, length is not really a Newmar issue. The longer and heavier chassis are generally more stable. As weight goes up one generally wants a stronger chassis and a stronger engine = diesel. And you will find underpowered diesel MHs. And yes, maybe the transmission makes a difference, but only you can say in practice if it makes enough of a difference, particularly as you put all you stuff in and pull a trailer or car. If it does't your dealer will be happy to see you, like so many other first buyers that come back within 12 months, and offer you a depressingly low trade-in value, to get you into the diesel you now are buying to solve the problem you thought was solved based on perfectly good logical and rational arguments (and cutting edge technology). ================================ When I worked at an RV rental place the mechanics loved the F53 chassis and engine. I think there is a general rule, generally ignored: you drive the MH under the conditions you will use it and then you decide if it is satisfactory or not. A demo often doesn't do it, but renting your target unit for a couple of weeks might. Buying and trying, then rebuying, definitely works! ========================== Lack of butt time is not often offset by increased technical analysis and rational arguments. Those who have the most butt time are your experienced members. There will be times where a particular member's experience may not line up with experience with the new technology that might offer a new opportunity. Butt, that increases your decision risk as you are often going back to a judgment based on technical analysis and rational arguments, or maybe even a marketing likely-biased article written to read as an unbiased savvy RV review. ==============================

Don't forget to match your coach to how you will use it. I believe many, not all, owners would suggest that 40 feet and up are generally used by full-timers and extended travelers, tend to like staying in private campgrounds and are dp. Yes, there are plenty of exceptions, but weight, mileage, and time are relevant factors. Gas tends to be shorter and owners tend towards public campgrounds and shorter stays. Yes there are exceptions, but the stock suspension seems to irritate a lot of owners, though many seem to be reasonably happy with the upgrades. A very short Class B seems to be for those who want a highly mobile option for short trips. Yes there are exceptions. A 5th and truck is also excellent, particularly if you own a truck and have another use for it. I find that I have to read between the lines to figure out some of the whys in some of the recommendations of experienced owners. How a mfg markets the coach is, for me, an indication of their target market which is worth considering. When Newmar had an issue with overweighting the front axle of the 2016 Dutch Star, it was represented that their target market was owners that tow storage trailers. Be it true or not, it was interesting to think about. I have seriously, slowly, and continually deeply considered every class. I would have purchased by now but my funds have not freed up and I'm still taking care of my 92 year old mother full time. Yes, there are options, but I'm not feeling pushed to find solutions. My boxer also insists on being considered. All said, I believe my wife and I have agree that we are apt to keep our SB and do some extended stays and some international travel, a mix of campgrounds, but with the advantage of traveling off season. She has basically told me she will go along with whatever I want, when I want. The reason I stay connected to this forum is because I believe, at the end of the process, I will probably buy a used Newmar, Country Coach, Monaco, etc. MH of 40 feet...making good use of my skills to minimize the risks about as good as anyone can that I have chatted with to the best of my knowledge. The primary used risks, as I understand them, are failure to identify water damage, motor issues, and chassis/suspension chassis issues that can cost upward to $20,000 or more to fix in addition to upgrades of something in the range of $10,000. Stuff like tires, batteries, generator, flooring and furniture are easy to get right/change/upgrade from my point of view. Not to belabor, but if you get to the point of buying, try not to end up being a good example of what not to do. Rodger S.

harryglos I'm really confused about your decision-making process. First, you are comparing gas to diesel. Second you are comparing a high quality Newmar with an entry-level quality Thor Palazzo. I think you are way ahead of yourself based on your presentation of these two issues. I recommend going back to the drawing board and doing a lot more research. One of the best ways is to put in search terms in this forum (on all the below) and google on the internet "gas vs diesel" for example, F53 suspension upgrades, and reading the recent eight part Industry analysis and related responding comments at rvdailyreport.com. Also go to a Newmar forum on irv2 and and a Thor forum and read all the good and bad stuff. I think this will take about two months minimum to sort through, should you do it (my way). Here are a few basics meanwhile: If you go gas, Newmar is your best choice for a combination quality of components, quality build, PDIs done at the factor and dealer, warranty help, and service. Whatever Ford F53 chassis you end up with, however, assume you will be looking at suspension upgrades. See above research. If you go diesel, a used high quality DP is a cost effective choice, but it depends on your DIY skills, inspection capabilities, willingness to hire inspectors for the house, chassis, engine, and comfort level. The RV Daily Report articles are going to give you a lot to think about. Lastly, let your decision-making instincts be guided less by your technical and logical analysis, and more by suggestions from the experienced members. BECAUSE, their experience draws from a larger array of knowledge that what you are apt to be reasonably be able to draw from in the short period of time you are working the issues. However, that said, how well your thought process is going in and the questions you ask will limit what you can get from the members. Rodger S.