jimnorm

Ballot is printed, filled out and in an envelope, It will go in the post on Tuesday. It is a NO vote for us. We joined FMCA BECAUSE of what it is, what it represents. Change this and we are little different from any other group. Motorhomes NEED their own advocate and their own organization that is dedicated to our unique needs. We have many organizations already that look to the generic RV industry.

Interesting. A few years ago things go tight so we parked our MH for 2 months at a local CG, DW and DD spent the summer, came home one day and night a week, I went out on Friday and drove to work on Monday morning. Would have been cheaper to stay home, but it was cheaper than trying to do 6 -8 weekends. As a rule we move after two-three days. I think that is too short and now that we have more time, we'll likely extend that. We've booked our first 9 day stay for next spring in Tennessee. It will tell us a lot about our preferences. There is a fair amount to see where we are headed so that will be good. Not sure I would drive to say Arizona and park for 4 months in one place. I could see two weeks and move as an average.

A plan in place is good, but is there any outreach? If the dealer is not educated to the benefit he won't use it. Also are we looking to the Manufacturers?

I don't think it has to do with voter suppression, there are legal issues, the method of voting is in the bylaws. You violate them in an organization like FMCA you could wind up in court. Electronic voting is not free. As for the subject of the vote itself, I agree, if this passes FMCA is on its deathbed. I won't quit, then again I am paid up for a number of years, but I can see it becoming less of a resource than it currently is.

2007tlc, I respect your opinion and in fact I agree with some of what you say, but allowing towables is not the answer. Yes we need to fix the magazine, it needs more articles about places one can go in a week, not just places we'd all like to go if we had a month or two. The articles need to have some balance, although to be honest you aren't going to get an entry level gas MH for 15k while you can get an entry level towable for even less. We need to have articles that show a family that consists of Mom, Dad and the school age kids on a trip, in an entry level MH. If we open up to towables it is likely we won't have an FMCA in 5 years or at least one that is MH centric. And let us be honest, we joined FMCA BECAUSE it IS Motor Home centric. If all we wanted was general RV info there is Good Sam and all the rest. FMCA is the place for all things Motor Home. Go to a large RV show an you will find far more towable than MH options. That is why FMCA is important, it is for Motor Homes.

Carl, I agree we must change, I just don't agree that we must throw out everything from the past. We need to change to be more welcoming to the younger people with families, we need to change so that we are not perceived as the rich old fart club, we need to figure out why so few Motor Home owners join. If we can't attract our core group, we are doing something very wrong, opening membership to a different group does not and will not fix the underlying issues.

Staying on topic here. Bill you say 'We' haven't and that the doing is not our job. Partly correct. BUT... The real growth potential for FMCA or any organization is at the grass root level, the local chapter level. Are you a member of a chapter? Are you an active member of a chapter? And yes, I am a member, but have not been active, looking to change that in the near future. That out of the way, if chapters which are generally local affairs are not welcoming to new people, young people, people with kids, they will not help to grow the organization. Said this all before, I've been a member going on 10 years now. Been to two National Rallies. Local chapters seemed to have rallies that were more than likely during school or during the week. Both nixed our attending. We need to be able to get to and home from a rally between Friday night and Sunday night. This does not mean that a chapter can't have a rally that starts on Thursday, but the meat and potatoes should be the weekend. This way the working MH owner can still attend. This is particularly important if the rally is held during the time that the local schools are open. If we want FMCA to remain the Rich Old People Motor Home Association then we need to continue this. We need chapters, yes we need MORE chapters or maybe just more active chapters that cater to the audience we are supposedly targeting, younger people, If we bring in a crop of Old Towable Owners what makes us think our average age will drop? We need to have something for the membership to participate in during their available camping season. Not everyo ne can take off three or four weeks to travel across the country to a National Rally.

We keep getting asked to stay on topic. The topic being, 'should we allow towables'. Underlying this is why is there a perceived need to expand membership to towables? It looks to me like what we have done is to rest on our laurels to the point where we are aging out. at 64 I am a young member! That is scary and is certainly not an omen that the organization is growing. We, the members are dying. Our average member is at the end years of active life. We need to find a way to attract the younger MH owner. What good will we do if all we do is move from having the average member own a MH and be 71 to having the new average member own a towable and be 71? This is the problem that needs to be addressed. How do we get the people that own or are in the process of buying a MH to join us regardless of their age?

James, I agree with you that if we lose this organization it will likely be gone forever, however at that point we diverge. I feel if we actively recruit Towables we will radically change what FMCA is or is supposed to be. We will lose it. We have nowhere come close to actively recruiting all of the owners of Motorhomes. I'll not repeat my entire earlier post (about 6 posts up) but there are a number of free or nearly free ways we could enhance our membership and attract new members. We have not done so. We are admitting defeat by going after towables and we will go down in flames. Why should a towable join us? There are already myriad orgs for them. This is the ONLY MH Only org out there.

Non-profit does not mean you cannot build a reserve. You can 'make money', but you may have to pay taxes on it, there is a difference between a Not for Profit and a Tax-Exempt organization. FMCA should look to increase its financial strength each year. If it looks to just break even it will break. As for allowing other than Motor driven, self propelled recreational vehicles into FMCA I am 100% opposed. If I want to go to a general gathering I can go to Good Sam or any campground or RV show. I joined FMCA especially to get more knowledge about MOTOR homes, not RVs in general. Understand I do not dislike towables. I've had good times in CGs with people in towables, RVs and tents. People are people, I agree, BUT Towables are NOT Motor Homes! Said it before and I'll say it again, until we have been soundly rejected by every MOTORHOME owner we do not need to be looking outside our own demographic. We need to get the Dealers and Builders involved. Get them to include on year of membership, make it a special class if needs be, Instead of a F-##### get a T-###### and see what it is all about. Digital magazine, no mailing, virtually no cost to FMCA, but EVERY new MH Owner or owner of a New or New to them MH gets this. Once they see what we offer and how little the costs are many will join, Of course there will be those that don't. So? Then we need to concurrently work on making FAMILY a bigger part of what we do. We need local chapters to work to make rallies family friendly and accessible. If you all want FMCA to succeed this is where we need to go. School time and week days are not available to a vast number of our potential members. Not everyone can take off for two weeks in March to attend a Rally. After 10 years of membership we finally got to attend one, it was a week for us and it was outside school days so we could finally go. We need to realize that towable or MH that restriction will still apply. People have JOBS and SCHOOL and if we don't address that we will continue to be a Grandparent/Retired/Wealthy Motor Coach Association, not a FAMILY Motor Coach Association.

Chris G., I can agree with you regarding the Family being a somewhat missing part of Family Motor Coach. We to travel with our daughter. We've been to two National Rallies and she has come with us both times. Nearly nothing at all for her. FMCA Energized under Jeff's direction is working hard on that but three are miles to go. We have been members for ten years. Last year and this are the first two rallies we've made. Why? School and the need to take more than one week off. Local chapters seem to hold many if not most of their gatherings during the week or mostly during the week, Thurs, Fri, Sat. The school year leaves only little more than July on a national scale for kids to be free to travel Our school usually ends mid June and starts early Sept to the last few days of August. Some places end later others start earlier. At the Indy Rally Energized was able to arrange free WiFi in the Kid Zone, albeit it was FAR away from EVERYTHING at least it existed. Our Daughter was able to log in and work/play. Maybe we are unique in that our 20yo daughter still travels with us, willingly! but having activities for Older Teens not just Kids and early Teens might help in getting the Family back into FMCA. The people we are saying we need to attract are those with kids from toddler to late teens and even college age. This group is much more likely to be in a C than a 45 foot A. If we want to attract more members we need to attract their families!

IF RV sales are at 40k for the month and MHs are about 20% then we have 8,000 new owners. What ever the actual numbers are really does not matter. The real and pertinent question is: Are these new owners being approached to join? Are they getting an FMCA brochure at the time of purchase? Has FMCA developed a program with the manufacturers of MHs and MH dealers to get our information in the hands of new owners? If we have not done this, why do we think that opening up membership to trailers is necessary? We have an acknowledged pool of potential members that meet the requirements of our charter that we are not addressing. Until we do that I see no viable reason to change. I've read here that we don't do enough to make owners of B's, super B's and C's feel welcome. Frankly I sort of agree based solely upon the representation I have seen at two National Rallies. There were Coaches, from old and small to multi-million dollar rigs, but there were not that many B or C MHs, yes both rallies had them available for sale. This is good, but most of the seminars and products were directed towards the A coaches. Possibly this could be addressed. a lot of potential members have them. Why don't they see a value in FMCA? I have a relative with a B, they love it, traveled from NJ to Sante Fe and back in two weeks and would not trade for our A. He says why should I be a member? Tires aren't that expensive for this rig and AAA covers my tow and ERS like it was another car. What can we offer to him? Answer that and maybe we can solve our membership issue from within our target audience.

If towable RVs are allowed full membership, I won't run away, but it will certainly change my perspective. Why would I travel to a rally that might be directed towards Towables by a 70/30 skew? What will happen to MH Seminars? What about products? What about new RVs? I go to the Hersey RV show and I look at the MH equipment and a couple motorhomes, but it is a day out, it is however heavily skewed to trailers. If a FMCA really starts to look like the average RV show, why should we attend? I'll find a chapter or a group or maybe just travel alone. The draw will be missing.

Bill you have been at this a lot longer than I have, at least as a member of FMCA. I've been a member of a number of other organizations and no matter what the group, they all do best when members recruit. That said, an organization has to have a reason to exist as well, just being there is not enough, it has to know what it is and sell its mission to its members. FMCA is losing its focus on what is is as an organization. In part this is due to the aging membership and how much of the membership has over time either perceived themselves or allowed themselves to be perceived by the RV/MH public. I know when I joined I had at first a very negative feel. Seemed that it was a old rich guy organization. Being neither I was a bit put off, but I gave it a shot. I am now sort of Old, and owning a MH, not especially rich. I think the chapter level could do more for growth than any reorganization or national program. We need the chapters to be family friendly. That means you can't only rally during the week. The people we want to join us are at work and their kids are in school. I joined when I was 54, I worked 50 weeks of the year. My daughter was in school and would not take a day off for any reason. So we did not get to go to any rallies, local or national. Last year after 10 years we went to our first, it was during the summer, it was close enough to go and get home in a week, no need to bridge over into a second week. We will attend our first chapter rally this fall. We no longer are as constrained by days off. Still work, but have a lot of flexibility now. 40 -60 YO usually don't. If we make the organization friendly towards the target we won't have to recruit, people would seek us out. Inviting towable RVs in is like a sailing club inviting ski boats to join. both play on the water, but that is where the similarities end.

I understand that there are incredibly expensive all inclusive Towables out there, but be honest, how many? Let us look at the average MH vs the average towable. MH has an engine, transmission, genset, automatic or semi-automatic leveling, steering gear, air suspension, (OK, not all) a large windshield, and requires specialized support for all. The average towable has none of the above. There are 8.9 million 8,900,000 RV owners out there, if even only 10% 890,000 are MH owners we have only attracted about 5% of our target audience! So with this outstanding success in attracting members from our target audience, why do we think that going up against Good Sam will bring in many new members? I will bring info with me to CGs I visit to share with other MH owners and I talk up FMCA membership. We all need to recruit one member, that would double our membership. I personally believe that including Towable RVs will not grow us in the end, but will rather be the death knell.

Regarding this thread, might I make a Suggestion? If it is that Indianapolis is in the title, why not change the title to a more appropriate one? Such as "Should A Motor Home Association allow non-Motor Home owners as full members? or something similar that actually states the question?

Manholt, Yes, there are incredibly expensive all inclusive Towables out there, but be honest, how many? Let us look at the average MH vs the average towable. MH has an engine, transmission, genset, automatic or semi-automatic leveling, steering gear, air suspension, (OK, not all) a large windshield, and requires specialized support for all. The average towable has none of the above. There are 8.9 million 8,900,000 RV owners out there, if even only 10% 890,000 are MH owners we have only attracted about 5% of our target audience! So with this outstanding success in attracting members from our target audience, why do we think that going up against Good Sam will bring in many new members? I would suggest MAYBE a middle ground, an associate membership that is valid for a non-owner to see what we are about while contemplating the purchase of a MH. This class of membership would have a couple restrictions, it would not be a voting membership and it would sunset. You could not remain a member more than years, 5 seems a good amount, without the purchase of a MH. Also you would not get a traditional FMCA Member Number and would not be entitled to the Goose Egg.

Just another little bit to add: "The only difference between a Towable and a Coach, is the engine/transmission." This statement is factually untrue. Yes a Motor Coach has an engine and a transmission. A towable doesn't, but there are many additional differences. We have AirBrakes. Automatic levelers, charging systems that connect and disconnect the house and chassis batteries. Generators that are built in. Tires and wheels well outside those found on most any trailer. Steering and suspension issues. Our Coaches are not simply a trailer with an engine. With a 5:1 superiority in numbers how long before a FMCA rally is all about trailers? Think of the vendors we get. How many trailers need a sunshade for the windshield, or a windshield? How many need diesel management systems? We will become a Good Sam Lite. We don't have the financial backing of Camping World. I do not have an issue with people that have a trailer. My brother had one for years. we camped together. I've said this before and I am not the only one, Until EVERY OWNER OF EVERY MOTORHOME THAT IS NOT AN FMCA MEMBER TURNS US DOWN, WE DON"T HAVE A LACK OF POTENTIAL MEMBERS, WE HAVE A LACK OR SALESMANSHIP OR PRODUCT RECOGNITION.

SMS Davis, I am one of the people that is opposed to allowing towables. We are the ONLY non brand motorhome organization open to all with something for all. I am not discounting what brang clubs offer, I belong to two, but towables only share a portion of our needs. I can see FMCA being changed in ways that leave us out in the cold. As for needing new blood, has every MH owner been approached? Do the manufacturers include an application in their packages? How about dealers? Do they do anything to promote us? When we have approached the vast majority of MH owners and they've told us thanks, but no thanks, then I might consider towables. Seriously we have engines, drive lines, transmissions, generators, inverters, hydronic heating, Leveling systems, Air systems, leveling and brakes, none apply to travel trailers. They have an entirely different set of needs and wants. How many of them need a Blue Ox towbar? or a brake system, or new air ride seats? What will happen is we will become marginalized. Since towables are about 4:1 over us, how long before the organization is foreign to us?

We just bought and had installed a Safe-T-Plus stabilizer. Did I have issues before? Not really, but I did get some push pull and some cross wind issues and maybe a little wandering. We only have 700 miles under us since the add. I won't say I am impressed, but I do think there was an improvement in handling. Would I do it again? Don't know yet. I will say that I have had a RF blowout in my last coach, Itasca Sunova, Actually thought I lost a rear tire! Noting special as to the coach, no add-ons. Was I lucky? Skilled? Who knows, I added this as I am now nearly 10 years older. Maybe my reaction times will be slower I don't know, but any help in a bad situation is a good thing. For the record our coach has been 4 corner weighed and tire pressures matched. Safe Travels

Was going to buy some cutting boards, store didn't have enough. How about vinyl floor mats?

I believe I will vote and that vote will be NO.

I am more and more firmly against Towables being included as FMCA will definitely no longer be what it is and may well cease to be. What would set us apart? As for Rallys, I do see, especially now that I have attended a couple, a need and a value. The Seminars and the direct connection to manufacturers of both coaches and accessories is priceless. Yes I can go to Hershey and see a lot, but that is a zoo, most are there to spend a day. They are neither owners nor likely owners. At a Rally such as FMCA holds I can get direct input about MY coach from the supplier, they likely have staff on hand to handle some issues and often can install new product while you are there. Dilute this with 50% towables and Coaches will lose out. How, there simply will not be enough space for the additional non MH related vendors.

Very similar experience although I am in my 60's, my wife and I started late, our daughter is just 20. We needed weekend local gatherings and they needed to be someplace where the family could enjoy things. I still sort of feel the same way, although I am now semi-retired and can take more time our daughter is just starting her career so her time will remain limited, which in turn limits mine. Further FMCA is a home for Motorhomes of all makes and models. We have of course many of the same needs as Towables, but we have at least as many different needs. No towable needs a seminar on an Allison 3000 or a Freightliner chassis. They don't need Onan or SteerSafe or Roadmaster or Blue Ox. All things pretty much unique to us. We as a group look to FMCA as a place to find answers to OUR needs beyond basic RV stuff. Water heaters. Furnaces, TV antennas, Sewer hoses, etc are all common, but are a minor part of what we look for, but perhaps a more major part of what a towable looks for hence our need for an assocation dedicated to our specific needs.

Bill, I agree. We have not tapped nearly all the owners of self-propelled RVs. If we have been told NO but everyone that drives their RV then we have to consider two things, A) What aren't we offering that would attract them? and B). Why not? If we can't attract all the non- members that drive, why do we think we'll be successful attracting and retaining members from the tow-behind segment of the industry?