Carmar122 Report post Posted November 15, 2016 Hi all. changed fuel filter today. Drained old filter into clean bucket and tilted bucket so all fuel would accumulate on one side. I noticed metal dust in fuel. I tested metal dust and it was magnetic. If you ever saw the metal dust that accumulates on a oil drain plug that is what this dust looks like. Don't know if it's from fuel stations or my fuel system. Carl and Margaret 2004 American tradition. 40w 2013 Honda CR-V Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dickandlois Report post Posted November 15, 2016 Carl, Could you post the engine that is installed in the coach? Make and Model information. Helps pin down the fuel handling system. Model year with month also, some of the coaches are built with an 03 if it was built in early 2004. How many miles on the coach? Rich. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carmar122 Report post Posted November 15, 2016 Hi Rich, 370 hp Cummins engine. Build date 9/2003. Model year 2004 American tradition. 111,000 miles. Thanks, Carl Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
huffypuff Report post Posted November 16, 2016 The metal particles could be from a lift pump between fuel tank and filter. Not likely from injector pump or engine as that will be passed the filter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manholt Report post Posted November 16, 2016 Ray. Nice to hear from you! I suspect your correct... Carl C. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dickandlois Report post Posted November 16, 2016 Carl, I tend to go along with Ray's thoughts. Regarding the engine series - by late 2003 the ISC engine was being up graded to the High Pressure injector and would come out as the ISL / ISM. Think you should contact AMC with the Vin number and get the engine serial number, with that information you contact Cummings and get the build information on the engine. That should cover the lift pump and injector system of your engine. Then it is easier to get better information on where the metal you found in the separator. Rich. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carmar122 Report post Posted November 16, 2016 Hi all, engine was built June of 2003. Injector system is CAPS and control module is cm554. Thanks for all the help. Carl b. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfe10 Report post Posted November 16, 2016 Carl, Since the metal could have come from either your engine's fuel system OR a stations, my advice is that as long as you have no performance issues, change the filters and see if you continue to get metal. If so, the presumption would be it is coming from your engine's fuel system. Does the electric fuel lift pump sound normal (have someone turn the key to the start position, but not start the engine while you are by the passenger's side rear of the coach). You should hear the electric lift pump for 1+ minutes? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carmar122 Report post Posted November 16, 2016 Hi wolfe10. Great advice. The reason I have been changing fuel filters is last week I took coach from n.h. To charlotte Michigan to Spartan for maintenance and inspection. On the way out coach started bucking under load. No engine warning lights. Changed fuel filter and no change . First I should start coach sat with a 1/4 tank a fuel for 2 months with me starting coach once a month but nothing else. Anyway I continued to Spartan and changed fuel filter again and still little improvement. Spartan pulled a code 329 code fuel pump and said see Cummins. Leaving Spartan I put 16 oz bottle of biocide and coach ran almost perfect. I made it home to n.h, and yesterday filled fuel filter with sea foam and ran coach for two minutes then let sea foam sit in fuel system. Test drive coach and almost had no bucking and sometime no bucking up hill at 25 lbs of boost. So that's why I saw metal changing fuel filter yesterday. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manholt Report post Posted November 16, 2016 Carl. I don't know what a 329 code is, but I would either call Cummins or go to a Cummins, ASAP! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carmar122 Report post Posted November 16, 2016 Manholt. Thanks for the reply. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dickandlois Report post Posted November 16, 2016 Carl122, Code 329= Fuel Injection Pump! Caps system is a mechanical injection pump 3 piston cam driven system and each piston supplies fuel to 2 cylinders. If all this information is correct, it is possible the metal in the system is cumming from the pump. Brett mentioned changing the filters and see if there is a build up of metal. The possibility of metal from a good fuel supplier is slim, because they should have a filter at each pump to trap unwanted items. Not knowing what the current fuel level is, Drive a good distance and see if anything starts build up in the water / separator sight bowl. Cummings Fault codes for ISC enginelink http://www.diesel-service-parts.com/isc-fault-codes.html Rich. Cummings_ISC_Fuel_system_information_CFP08E_(12).pdf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfe10 Report post Posted November 16, 2016 Code 329 MAY indicate a problem with a component, but very first recommendation is to clean all the connections to the CAPS pump with a good electrical cleaner such as DeOxit. A poor connection can easily throw a 329 code. These connections are easiest to access from ABOVE (bedroom floor, bed or closet floor raised). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carmar122 Report post Posted November 16, 2016 Thanks everybody for your advice. I took coach to Cummins this afternoon. As soon as I hear back from them I will post the results. Thanks again Carl Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gglenn Report post Posted November 18, 2016 Hopefully Cummins will have some great info. Thought I would chime in and try to contribute. Wolfe10 and DickandLois gave me much great input on figuring out my fuel system on my 04 Monaco Diplomat and an AirDog upgrade I just completed. Anyway your stock fuel path should be similar. Tank, Primary/H2O filter, ECU Cooler/Lift pump, Gear Pump In/Out (Sucks (HG) fuel from tank), then Secondary filter, finally high pressure pump inlet. So, my question is which filter had metal? Guessing it must be secondary filter that had metal. Anyway the likely culprit would be the gear pump. Seems to be a fairly easily serviceable/replaceable pump if bad. Secondary filter should be 2 micron, so high pressure pump hopefully OK. One last thought, hopefully not the problem. I believe any extra fuel from high pressure rail does return to the fuel inlet block/manifold at the back of the engine, recycles in before the ECU Cooler/Lift pump. So, metal could get cycled back thru system from high pressure pump, this would show up in the secondary filter Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carmar122 Report post Posted November 24, 2016 Hi all, here's the update as promised. I got coach back from cummins today. Engine surging and bucking under load turned out to be a clogged lift pump. Couldn't believe my eyes algae in pump was black and looked like tar. They also found rocker box was leaking oil. Replaced pump and resealed rocker box and new valve cover gasket. Came to about $2100 but luckily saved 10% with my cummins power club card. Definitely worth the $19.95. So if your ever in need of cummins service in New Hampshire cummins in concord n.h, on integra dr did a good job. They are very close to loudin n.h. We're NASCAR holds two races a year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildebill308 Report post Posted November 24, 2016 Happy Thanksgiving, thanks for reporting back. I bet I know someone who will be dosing his tank with a biocide regularly. Bill Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carmar122 Report post Posted November 24, 2016 Definitely yes!!! I don't care if it's a capful every fillup !!! it's getting a dose. Happy thanksgiving to you also. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildebill308 Report post Posted November 24, 2016 I use Power Service Diesel Kleen. I use the silver bottle in the summer and white in the colder months in every tank and dose with their Biocide. I mostly use the Biocide when it is going to be parked for a while. When on a trip I use it about every 5 tank to counter anything I may have picked up. Bill Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carmar122 Report post Posted November 24, 2016 Wildebill That seems like a good schedule. Thanks for the reply. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carmar122 Report post Posted November 24, 2016 My Spartan chassis has one fuel filter. My question does fuel go thru filter before lift pump Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfe10 Report post Posted November 24, 2016 19 minutes ago, Carmar122 said: My Spartan chassis has one fuel filter. My question does fuel go thru filter before lift pump You would have to consult Spartan. In more recent years, a single filter was usually installed on the pressure (engine side) of the lift pump. If a Cummins engine, go to this Cummins website and enter your engine serial number: https://quickserve.cummins.com/info/index.html Here, for example is our 2003 Cummins ISL fuel flow diagram showing the location of a single fuel filter between the lift pump and CAPS pump: https://qsol2.cummins.com/qs3/portal/service/manual/en/4021418/ NOTE: if these sites do not open (they are for my engine serial number and my personal Cummins QuickServe account) you will have to go in and set up a log in (it is free and VERY helpful). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carmar122 Report post Posted November 24, 2016 Will do. Thanks brad. Carl 2004 American tradition Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carmar122 Report post Posted November 25, 2016 Brad just found fuel delivery routing on cummins quickserve. Much to my surprise filter is after lift pump. I am really surprised no filter before lift pump. Would like to know how one could be added. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfe10 Report post Posted November 25, 2016 I would start by contacting Spartan, but see no reason you could not put a primary fuel filter/water separator before the lift pump-- probably 20-30 micron element. Let us know what you find out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
