Slide Out Electrical Issue

[wildebill308]

Rich, You may have something with the sticking relay. Something is feeding power to that circuit. Interesting problem, most times it is no power this time we have power when we shouldn't.

Bill

[talgutbir]

Guys,

I tried switching the relays around.  There are 3 of them. same problem but I will get 3 new ones.  They are all the same model.

Rich, the 30A fuses are at the Power Gear control box in the basement. two of these protect the two motors.  I am still not sure about the inner slide fuse location.  The inner slide is build by Accu slide and I left them a message to see how they recommend that you wire their slide.

The magnet in the picture sits between the slide and fridge.  When the slide is closed the magnets touch each other.

Monaco said yesterday that they need to locate the wiring diagram, still waiting.  Might call again later today.

[talgutbir]

Rich,

The second Intellitec box controls the magnetic switches.

Here is a link to it:

http://www.intellitec.com/index.php/products/Multiplex_Systems/Programmable_Multiplex_Control__PMC/PMC_input_module_622-100

 

[dickandlois]

Posted 1 hour ago · Report post

Rich,

The second Intellitec box controls the magnetic switches? Think the Reed switches let the CPU / data bus know the the data is ether a 0 or 1 - Low or high. Many times the system use a low bit as the most significant and the high as the least significant.   

It sure looks like your coach is setup with CAN (closed area network). Intellitec uses Microsoft operating system. They have there advantages, but the weak link is the RV service centers most likely  do not have tech trained in diagnosing them. An from your experience with Monaco, they are not up to speed with the technology or they are reluctant regarding the sharing of corporate information. 

The weak link with CAN systems is their susceptibility error data caused by oxidation, corrosion and dirt in the connections.

The module should be installed in a protected environment inside of the vehicle.

Not to sure that they are EMP hardened and if by chance a location experiences a EMP, there is going to be allot of dysfunctional equipment.

Rich.

Just got a good look at the box information you posted and it sure looks like it says 24 volts on it. So is your box a dash 100 or a 110? I'm thinking you do not have a 24 volt system in the coach, but there could be a 24 volt starting system.  

[dickandlois]

Hey look at the bright side - they make a test box to test the systems. 

Maybe we could convince FMCA to purchase one and all the members who have a CAN network for the coach system could stop at the home office and have the IT department run a diagnostic. NOT Really  - !!!!

Rich.

[dickandlois]

4 hours ago, talgutbir said:

Guys,

I tried switching the relays around.  There are 3 of them. same problem but I will get 3 new ones.  They are all the same model.

Rich, the 30A fuses are at the Power Gear control box in the basement. two of these protect the two motors.  I am still not sure about the inner slide fuse location.  The inner slide is build by Accu slide and I left them a message to see how they recommend that you wire their slide.

The magnet in the picture sits between the slide and fridge.  When the slide is closed the magnets touch each other.

Monaco said yesterday that they need to locate the wiring diagram, still waiting.  Might call again later today.

From all the information, I have concluded from the information the pictured unit is the power source for the - Power Gear high current relays !  should that be the case - if you can figure out which of the magnetic relays(reed switches) going to the module or disconnect one at a time and see how the slide reacts, you might be able to narrow things down. The reeds do not carry any real current / just supply a reference point for the logic controller.

Bouncing everything going down the road, one of them has moved out of the magnetic field supplied by the permanent magnet. 

Rich.

[abyrd]

I have no experience with magnetic reed switches used in you application, however I am familiar with their use in industrial applications.  The magnetic reed switches are electro/mechanical devices that are subject to failure. I would start by testing each of the switched to rule out  and determine if they are function properly.  First you must determine if the contact configuration is normally closed (NC) or normally open (NO).  The are two different designs of magnetic reed switches, one is triggered by anan external magnetic and others that that are triggered by an external steel plate.. 

 

Jim

[talgutbir]

Rich,

Talked to Intellitec and went over some checks. The CPU and the 110 module (yes 110 12V) seems to operate normally.  I am down to what you think too, a magnet is bad since all the connections on the intellitec are clean and free of corrosion.

I am still waiting for Monaco to email me the diagram, called again today and was told they are looking for it.

Jim, I am going to test the 3 switches. Not sure if they are NO or NC without the diagram from Monaco

[abyrd]

The terminology as to weather the contacts are NO or NC can be determined by holding the device in you hand, with no external sources of energy (either electrical or mechanical).  If the contacts are found to be open (infinity resistance with ohm meter) they are  NO contact development.  If the contacts are found to be closed (zero resistance with ohm meter) they are NC contact development.

 

Hope this helps.

Jim

Edited May 16, 2017 by abyrd
Had typo should read "no external source"

[abyrd]

Forgot to mention that once you remove the magnet reed switch you can test it by swiping  a steel object by  the reed switch  and observe the contact development with an ohm meter to determine if it changes state.  This procedure will work is the magnet is internal to the reed switch.  If this doesn't work, your switch may require an external magnet instead of the steel object.

 

Jim

[talgutbir]

I tested the 3 switches. All have 12v flowing through them when the magnet part is off and 0v when I touch it with the magnet.  Not sure where I go from here

[abyrd]

I next step would be to trace the wires from each magnetic switch and find the first junction or connection and perform the same test.  Are there any connection between the three switches? I would perform a thorough inspection ofall wiring from the switches, especially looking for any potential pinch point where the slides slide.

 

Jim

 

 

[wildebill308]

Hopefully you can get the drawings soon. Here is anouther guess. Can you determine which read switch is on the circuit that stayes "hot" or powered up. It could be the magnet on the reed switch is A, not lined up properly or B, not working properly. You said they all shower -0- voltage when you held a magnet to them.

Bill

[abyrd]

You might want to retest the magnet switched with a light instead of the volt meter.  Sometime I have fount that you may deselect a voltage with a meter, but if the contacts have poor conductive they won't carry any load.

Jim

[kaypsmith]

With the magnet off you have voltage means that they are NC. This means of course that they open when magnet is applied making their use a limit switch, when it opens is what tells the relay at the other end to open thus causing the slide to stop at that point. Is there not another magnetic switch somewhere? Since there are two slides, both slides will need two to prevent over extension or contraction.

[talgutbir]

1 hour ago, abyrd said:

You might want to retest the magnet switched with a light instead of the volt meter.  Sometime I have fount that you may deselect a voltage with a meter, but if the contacts have poor conductive they won't carry any load.

Jim

 

I will try it with my test light.

 

1 hour ago, WILDEBILL308 said:

Hopefully you can get the drawings soon. Here is anouther guess. Can you determine which read switch is on the circuit that stayes "hot" or powered up. It could be the magnet on the reed switch is A, not lined up properly or B, not working properly. You said they all shower -0- voltage when you held a magnet to them.

Bill

The switch of the inner slide is the one that causes the relay to stay hot. Once the magnet touches the switch the relay click so I assume there is a short in the line of something like that.  All magnets lined up well and yes, they all show 0 voltage when the magnet is on them.

40 minutes ago, kaypsmith said:

With the magnet off you have voltage means that they are NC. This means of course that they open when magnet is applied making their use a limit switch, when it opens is what tells the relay at the other end to open thus causing the slide to stop at that point. Is there not another magnetic switch somewhere? Since there are two slides, both slides will need two to prevent over extension or contraction.

On the outer slide there are two magnets, one for extended and one for retracted.  On the inner slide I only see one which is weird.  Here is a picture on the module with the magnet switches connections. It shows only 3 SW.

 

 

[kaypsmith]

You are correct, there only three magnetic switches that attach to this module. How long have you owned this coach and has it worked correctly before, then just stopped working?

[wildebill308]

32 minutes ago, talgutbir said:

The switch of the inner slide is the one that causes the relay to stay hot. Once the magnet touches the switch the relay click so I assume there is a short in the line of something like that.  All magnets lined up well and yes, they all show 0 voltage when the magnet is on them.

It still sounds like the relay. The relay clicks but doesn't shut off power. Have you measured power with one of the outher relays in this spot?

Bill

[talgutbir]

Guys,

First, let me thank all of you for taking all that time to try and help me. I REALLY appreciate it!

24 minutes ago, kaypsmith said:

You are correct, there only three magnetic switches that attach to this module. How long have you owned this coach and has it worked correctly before, then just stopped working?

Had this coach since January. Everything worked fine until a few days ago. I parked the coach and pushed the slide out button, the outer slide went out and that was that, no movement on the inner slide and a little red light flashing on the Power Gear small panel.  At that point even the outer slide didn't want to come in so I had to reset the limits on the power gear panel.  The outer slide is back to normal but the inner is only coming in, no out.

Bill, The new relays coming tomorrow so will change all three.

[talgutbir]

Just a question for the electronic minds (I am not)- How will the relay that stays closed (and getting hot) when the inner slide is closed will open if there is only one magnet for the inner slide??

[kaypsmith]

I suspect that the switch marked SO/1B acts for both SO 1 + 1B thereby when both slides are away from their home position then either slide should be allowed to go out. Notice just above SO 1 out and SO 1B in, there is a notation, JP1 Address = Jumper out, this what apparently allows the SO 1B to function both ways, also I see a 3 amp fuse just below that space where the wires attach. Have you checked that fuse with an ohm meter or tested under load. I suspect that might a small problem there if bad. Also you state that you that you had to reset the limits on the power gear, maybe a little tweaking may still be in order. Also one other question, is the power switches for the inner slide separate from the main slide? Can you also post the name and part # for the relays?

[dickandlois]

I'm thinking there are 2 magnetic read switches in the system. One for the slide out position and one for the slide in position.  There is a reed switch on the market with 3 connections. N.O. nominally open, N.C. nominally closed and C. Common. So there could be a Common Ground and 2 connections connected to the control board, One for the closed position and one for the open position. 

See the link below.

http://www.reedswitchdevelopments.com/about-reed-switch-developments-corp/reed-switch-operation/

looking at the wiring connections on the mod. the light blue wire is noted for So and Si - so the common wire on the reed switch is high and when the slide is in it goes low N. O. then when the slide is out the circuit is pulled low - the N.O. side.

Now one test to run - slide out relay cool Correct ? When the slide is in the relay is hot Correct?  when the slide is in disconnect the connection with the light blue wire, does the relay now stay cool? or is it reversed from my thought? The key is they used a uncommon 2 circuit reed switch.

Rich. 

 

[talgutbir]

The fuse tested OK.  What do you mean by "little tweaking may still be in order" ? The IN and OUT travel limits are for the power gear set up ONLY. They do not effect the multiplex buttons.  The slide does stop at the magnets and they are aligned correctly.  Is there anything I am missing here?

I attached a picture of the multiplex panel and you can see the buttons for inner and outer.  When it worked, you could press "driver S/O out" and when the outer comes out all the way and stops, the inner will start to go out off the same button if you help it pushed.  I also included the power gear little panel picture.

 

[talgutbir]

24 minutes ago, DickandLois said:

Now one test to run - slide out relay cool Correct ? When the slide is in the relay is hot Correct?  when the slide is in disconnect the connection with the light blue wire, does the relay now stay cool? or is it reversed from my thought? The key is they used a uncommon 2 circuit reed switch.

Rich. 

 

Now one test to run - slide out relay cool Correct ? YES

When the slide is in the relay is hot Correct?  YES

when the slide is in disconnect the connection with the light blue wire, does the relay now stay cool? or is it reversed from my thought? The key is they used a uncommon 2 circuit reed switch. I WILL TEST TOMORROW

[dickandlois]

I'm thinking there is magnetic read switches in the system, for the slide out position and one for the slide in position.  There is a reed switch on the market with 3 connections. N.O. nominally open, N.C. nominally closed and C. Common. So there could be a Common Ground and 2 connections connected to the control board, One for the closed position and one for the open position. 

No you are not really missing anything! when the proper connection is made inside the reed switch, The Data system toggles the relays in the mod. and reverses the motor control wires. Have you look at the second style reed sw. pictured in the link?

You are so close to fixing the issue!!!! and No the Power gear setting is not involved from my prospective !!!!

Rich. Where is this relay located? next to the fuses on the 110 mod or somewhere else?