Brownout shown on Precision Circuit Inc Control Screen

[jeannemaryann]

     Our 2018 FOREST River Legacy Class A 50 AMP has a Precision Circuits Inc. touch panel screen. When open you can turn on the propane, the air conditioners, the lights, check the power control such as AMPs to the unit etc. An electrical issue seems to be occurring so we took it to Camping World (CW) for a diagnostic. Their final decision was that our surge protector was bad. So, we had them install a unit direct in the shoring compartment. Only to get home and find that we still have the same issue. 

     Intermittently the power panel shows “Brownout” on one line or the other. Nothing in the coach stops working though. Electric seems to work and no breakers appear to flip. Its difficult to know when this occurs because nothing changes in the coach. Lights still work, fridge still works, both air conditioners still work. You have to keep checking the Power Control on the Precision screen. This is the same control we check when we shore to a 50 amp service to be certain we have 50 AMPs at our location. We look at it from time to time, maybe a couple times a day. The “brownout may show on either line or both and may occur with two air conditioners, lights fridge running or with only the fridge and nothing else running. Before taking it to CW we turned everything except the fridge off and the power panel showed we had 50 amps of service with 1 amp being used on one line.  The next morning we had “brownout” shown on both lines. 

The CW techs plugged the unit in and ran it for two days with everything on. Brownouts occurred. They checked the shoring line and transfer switch and they appeared fine. The battery inverter seems fine. Quite frankly both techs seemed puzzled and didn’t know what else to check. So they decided it was my surge protector causing an issue. Even though,  when running the unit they plugged into their service with and without my surge protector and both had the “brownout”message at some point. They installed a direct line surge protector, all was working well so we headed home. Within a couple hours of being home, plugged to our 50 AMP,  one line showed “brownout”.

I am not mechanically inclined but apparently neither were the techs at CW. Does anyone have a similar Precision Circuit Inc screen and have you had any of the above mentioned issues?

Jeanne

 

[manholt]

Jeanne.  CW is fine for parts, that's all.  Have you called FR Tech Department or precision?

[kaypsmith]

I wonder to what extent the brownout is, does your Precision circuit monitor tell that? A brownout is a form of the power going low, it can show up as voltage should be between 110 and 125 volts, or simply the amperage is too low, not  carrying enough amperage for a short period. These conditions rarely will cause a breaker to trip, but will show up as an AC (alternating current) light bulb not being as bright as normal. Several things can contribute to this happening including the power company having issues to a something as simple as a neutral within the coach not being tight enough within a circuit panel, or even a lug not being tight within the ATS (auto transfer switch), or even a faulty transfer switch not holding a good latched condition. Since this is happening on both line 1 and 2, my first concern would be a loose ground within the coach somewhere. Have you tried running the generator for 8 or more hours to see if the brownouts occur during that period of time? And of course there may be a problem with your monitoring system. Over the years I have used an analog monitoring system that uses a paper tape with a sweep pen that records the date and time and actually shows the voltage on both circuits at any given time. Of course newer technology uses digital components and records these happenings over a period of time. Hope you find the culprit soon, and remember that the inside coach lights are 12 volt DC, not 120 AC, so to watch for brownouts, use an old fashioned 60 watt incandescent bulb in a lamp base plugged into an AC outlet within the coach. Hope this brief post will help in understanding what a brownout is.

[jeannemaryann]

Yes, I contacted FR and they gave me Precision. George is on break during the July 4 holiday so we will talk again on Monday. 

Kaypsmith, I will try the generator. I ran it two hours yesterday evening but will run it all day. I can also plug in a lamp. This being said I have noticed the air conditioner pulling a bit lighter at times. (perhaps alternating current). I will need to get someone to help me test neutrals but will do this too. I am a true novice. About how many neutrals can I expect to find in the coach and what does a neutral look like?

Thanks all. Much appreciated. 

Coach Owner in Training (LOL).

[manholt]

Jeanne, we are all in Training!   We feed off each other & our own experiences! 

[kaypsmith]

Jeannemaryann, neutral is the white wire within an AC circuit, it goes to ground, sometimes called common. The main places where problems occur that will you can or will see on a monitoring system is at the fuse/breaker panel, within the ATS, and or the power cord that you hook up to the campground pedestal. The reason for running the generator for an extended period is to rule out shore power, the power cord and possibly the ATS. If no brownouts occur while on generator, that will in most cases rule out, shore power, the power cord, and possibly but not always the ATS. If you are not comfortable and at least somewhat knowledgeable about working with electrical circuits, I strongly suggest contacting a qualified electrician to check and tighten the (screw) lugs inside these places. Although anyone can use a screwdriver to try to tighten them, but make sure the power is unplugged from shore power, the generator is off and the inverter/converter is in the off position. Not only neutral wires should be retightened but all wires on a regular basis. Heat and cool down circumstances caused by use and non use of the wiring causes these junctions of electrical components to loosen over time. This is really simple maintenance that needs to happen on at least an annual basis even in stick and brick homes but is rarely thought about because the s/b home uses solid copper wire as opposed to stranded copper wire in an RV and solid does not flex as often in a s/b vs an RV. If the AC seems lighter at times could be during one of those brownout conditions, this is when the light test can be observed to see if it gets dimmer at the same time. Too small wire size will cause brownouts, but in your case with an RV is probably not your cause because the coach should have been built to current electrical specifications. Loose or corroded junctions is the most probable cause.

Coach Owner in Training (LOL).

The good thing is you are willing to learn by asking questions, and looking for solutions, keep up the good work. 

[jeannemaryann]

Thanks. The unit browned out after running on the generator. I checked it on the hour. After four hours it was good. Between that and hour five it browned out.

I will call an electrician and let them look at all the neutral connections. 

Your help has been greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[jbell]

Sorry to hear you took it to camping world.

[kaypsmith]

Glad to hear that you are calling upon a qualified electrician. The generator test can now put to rest the power company, and shore power plug and cord. I would start at the ATS now and go forward into the wiring in the breaker panel. So far, have all the brownouts been on the L2 circuit as indicated above? If so that will indicate a probable 240 volt circuit breaker going bad if there is one, if no double handle (that will have two handles locked together), then you will have two separate single handle breakers, probable 50 amps each, I have found sometimes that these guys will have burnt looking contacts where they clamp to the bus bar, this situation will cause brownouts because it is not able to carry sufficient current, I added this suggestion for passing along to the electrician. Hope that you are getting closer to a solution. I did forget to mention also that a contact may be failing in the ATS, but since brownouts still occurred on the generator, it is less likely because a different set of contacts are used while on generator than on shore power, but the neutral is still common on generator and shore power at the ATS. One more thing for an electrician to do is to be sure and tighten the lugs within each breaker, any one can be loose, as well as being certain that the one feeding the monitor system making good contact.

[jeannemaryann]

Thanks again everyone.

By the  way, what does ATS stand for?

I took on the electric myself. Actually pretty simple. One screw in the breaker box turned slightly. All other screws and wires were tight. No brownout yesterday afternoon or this morning. I am crossing my fingers that fixed it. If not I will pull the two 50 amp breakers. Running it today for the test.

The FMCA community is super. 

Jeanne

 

[jleamont]

Jeanne, ATS- Automatic Transfer Switch. It switches you from generator to shore power

[manholt]

Jeanne.   Hope you found the culprit. 🙏

[kaypsmith]

On ‎7‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 7:25 AM, Jeannemaryann said:

 

I took on the electric myself. Actually pretty simple. One screw in the breaker box turned slightly.

It only takes one loose screw, and it doesn't have to be too loose, great news that you took on the project yourself and was probably successful. By the way, that screw probably was not loose when it left the factory, especially since it occurred a good while after leaving. As I stated earlier, heating and cooling of electrical components actually cause these things to happen, a good idea to check at least yearly, I do it every six months.