Air vs. Nitrogen

[N2TYRZ]

Tireman9,

Thank You for your input and I respect your opinion. I think some of the claims seem outlandish too as far as mpg increase.

If running Air run through a $16.00 harbor freight drier meets your needs then great.

Bottomline N2 has worked for me and thousands others in daily or extreme applications worldwide vs compressed air (which is usually wet).

I concur, dry inflation is key and using N2 is easier for me since I'm set up and cost is minimal. You would think wet air may hold longer in a tire being harder to pass through tire membranes but dry N2 holds longer.

N2 in classic cars, bikes daily drivers etc works well but so could dry or wet air.

Doing the big rigs is time consuming however an 18 wheeler I inflated with N2 got an extra estimated on the low end 150k extra on his tires see earlier post for details. Same brand of tires, same truck, same drivers, same loads and same route, believe or not were okay with that.

Proper inflation is key which ever medium you prefer air wet or dry, N2, and some other posters have used CO2.

[mcbrian]

I'd rather use the extra money to take the bride out to dinner. I check my tires on a regular basis and really only have to add air once a year. I'll stick with the 78% solution!

[RVerOnTheMove]

I just want to see the set of tires that is capable of going not only the regular mileage expectation (usually in the 80,000 mile range) plus another 150,000 miles! Apparently N2 also prevents friction between the rubber and the road. I did not know that!

[N2TYRZ]

McBrian, Spare no expense and take her to a decent place with all the savings not using n2, I use nitrogen with the extra tire life can take my bride out very often.

RverOnTheMove, Were talking semi 18 wheeler not passenger car or RV. 80k maybe on a set of big rig local truck with low end tires with all the scrubbing local truck tires gets.

This long haul trucker owner operator team drives 6k miles per week, and document 300k to 350k on the driver tires average using Bridgestones with air for 15 years on 5 different trucks. They buy new a truck every 3-4 years when they get over a million miles.

When using nitrogen with one set of tires got 475k using same psi, loads, drivers and route. The 475k tires were sold to a local trucker for in town use.

Tire prices skyrocketed and they tried a set of Yokohomas and got 200k with air. They complained to the rep so were upgraded to premium Yokohomas and running those but going to buy new truck in a couple months. We will start N2 on their new truck and record results. In conclusion my hundreds of customers, friends, and family are satisfied with the results using N2. Finding dry air is not as prevalent as one thinks.

[wolfe10]

Finding dry air is not as prevalent as one thinks.

Anyone with a DP with air dryer has a great source of dry air.

Gas station air, you are correct, good luck.

[britz]

Nitrogen for Tires-Truth or Hype?”

http://powertank.com/truth.or.hype/

Here is an interesting study comparing facts and myths . . . comparing air, N2, and CO2.

[RVerOnTheMove]

Yep, a completely unbiased report from a company whose business is selling CO2!

[tireman9]

As a tire design and quality engineer I find the test run by Powertank sound.

Having this data available will make it easier to explain that while there are some advantages (dry air) to N2 but other than that I am not aware of those claims being based on controlled tests.

The fact that the results show no advantage for CO2 in the results should put to rest concerns about the company running the test.

[bobsea43]

I am surprised no one has pointed out that Nitrogen becomes cost effective for vehicle fleets. For a single vehicle the benefits vs cost are not there, but for a fleet of over the road trucks and/or cars Nitrogen can be a better option financially. I have not looked at the cost recently, but about 4 years ago there was a tire store in Central FL that was trying to get folks to change over to N and cost was $40 per car. It would be hard to recoup that on a normal car in normal use. There are some safety and convenience enhancements for N but not worth the cost in my opinion as compared to good, routine tire care and using DRY air!

Just my opinion!

[danshan432]

After reading the replies and some other online information I am getting a little more confused. So far dry air is suppose to be as good as nitrogen, you can use air in nitrogen and neither cause problems. One thing not brought up is a recent article I read is you should not put nitrogen in an older tire. The article did not indicate what an older tire was or the problems that might result. From my experience working in auto shops that did both mechanical work and painting I know one thing is a regular compressor does not dry out the air. It may take some dampness out but on a high humidity day you can see vapor coming out of the air hose if you are using air tools. The paint shop used an air dryer and had less of a problem. I do not know if the new compressors have air dryers on them or not but when I worked with them they did not. Since I have a few years on me it was a couple of decades ago. I did read one article that by what was said came from a trucking company. It stated that they averaged 2 million miles a month and with air had 35 tire problems but when they went to nitrogen it went to 5 of which 3 were road hazard problems. I guess my question is will nitrogen stop tires from having problems and is it worth it cost wise? The other would be are the majority of tire problems caused by road hazards vs air/nitrogen? From experience with only air in tires I know the material the rim is made of also makes a difference in the regions where the temp goes between 90 to -20 degrees. Will the rim material make a difference with nitrogen under the same temp?

[tireman9]

Danshan432
I understand how easy it is to get confused about Nitrogen. One one hand you have the proponents using some of the data to support their position that N2 is just short of magic. I and some others will agree that there are some theoretical and even some real advantages. The question is: Do the advantages justify the cost? and If the advantages are real, what is the real cost of trying to maintain 95% N2 rather than 79% N2 in your tires?

RE not using N2 in old tires. I would really like to see that original message. As a tire engineer, I can not think of any reason for this to be a concern. Also have to wonder what is meant by "old". Do they mean tires that are 7 to 10 years old? or are they talking about tires you might see in an auto museum that are 30 to 70 years old?
You are correct about most "shop air" not being dry. We are talking about how wet or how dry. I doubt that even the dryers used in auto paint shops is as dry as what comes out of 2,000 psi tank. Back in June 2012 I provided a link on how to make your own air dryer that I believe will provide almost all the benefits you are looking for when it comes to moisture at a fraction of the cost of N2.

RE tie problems. First there is no reason for the inflation gas to affect the rate of punctures so that is a red herring. I notice you didn't mention the number of punctures out of the 35. My biggest concern with these kinds of "studies" is that they probably did not have a tire forensic engineer examine all the failed tires to learn the real reason for the "problem". One possible explanation is that when they switched to N2 they also changed their tire inspection and maintenance program.

RE wheels. Thermal expansion of steel or aluminum will not be affected by the gas used to inflate the tires period.
Hope this helps. If you still have questions please go back and read my other posts in this thread and then follow the links in my posts.

Roger

[manholt]

It still comes down to where you live and where you travel. I can't relate to -25 degree winter driving. I can however agree with Brett, since we live 30 miles apart. We have very high humidity, so high in summer that all you have to do is go outside for 5 minutes and you look like you just took a shower with your cloths on! I fill my coach tires via the onboard compressor, because I keep my coach in a garage in League City.

I have thought about Nitrogen, but in the long run, I don't see a plus side. I buy new tires every 6 years, not because of tread wear, but I just don't trust the sidewall beyond that. I give the old tires to my Rancher friends, it's amazing the amount of things they use them for!

I have had 17 class A's, first being a 67 Winnebago, bought in 67. Due to my profession ( oil field trash), I was not a joiner of clubs, but

I bet a lot of you can relate to all "flat tires" in the mornings! A lot of blow outs back before Radial Tires, mostly in front and also mostly side wall.

[tireman9]

An observation on using your on-board compressor.

While I have never tested the moisture content of the output of a truck air brake compressor I am sure they have a "dryer" in the system that probably does a better job than most truck stop air compressors.

If you see a 2% rise in pressure with a 10F increase you have very dry air. I would even consider a 3% or 4% rise reasonable an not in need of corrective action till I was observing a 5% increase for each 10F.

A quick test you can do when you have a few minutes and access to enough air to re-inflate your tires is to pull the valve core and let about 10% but not more than 20% of the air out of the tire. If you see water spitting out of the valve you may have wet air in the tire.

The above is not based on any lab testing just a gut feel.

It is important to remember that tire mounting "soap" is water based so there will always be some moisture introduced to the tire air when the tire is mounted but not enought to worry about.