Registering An RV Using A Montana LLC

[rdjl972]

My wife and I are thinking about registering our motorhome in Montana using an LLC. Our Class A RV is currently registered in California and I know other RV owners have done this who own California-registered RVs. But I wonder what types of problems they may have run into during or after the process.

IF you have a Class A RV that was registered in California and have registered it in another state -- even if you didn’t use a Montana LLC -- would you like to give me some guidance with this? I’d like to start a dialogue with you. I'd certainly appreciate it. Thank you.

Rick

[wolfe10]

The first thing I would do is to check your home state (California in your case) and determine what the penalty is for being a legal resident of that state and registering a vehicle in another state to avoid taxes.

Issues like whether you store and use it in California would likely be important.

Completely different if you are full-timing and use Montana as your home state (mailing address, driver' license, etc).

Brett Wolfe

[tmoning]

You might be interested in the Colorado situation. See these articles on FMCA.com:

Colorado catches RV sales tax evaders

Motorhomer pleads guilty to tax evasion

[etmetzler@isp.com]

Just recived a fix it ticket for having a CA plate on my car and a MT plate on the motorhome..... The CHP is working the HWY 58/ Hwy 14 area.... I have been full time for 10 yrs but do not claim any state as residence. I have an LLC on the motorhome in MT. Last year I spent a total of 15 days in CA..... The CHP told me that he knew what the RVers were doing, screwing the state out of money..... CA is out of money and is trying to get funds anyway they can.... Will be going to court next week. Any help? I have a WA Telephone #, Get mail in OH, File taxes in TN, Belong to Gila Bend Elks. But I have a car licensed in CA and a CA drivers license...... which I was told by an attorney you don't have to become a resident of any state until you live their most of the time.

[crobin1940]

IF you are a fulltimer you need to license in Texas (Escapees), South Dakota ( Hart's Ranch) or Florida (Good Sam's Mail Forwarding Service). Then your car and motorhome will have the same plates and you get a driver's license from that state also. I licensed in Pensacola, Florida, with Good Sam's where there is no income tax and we are considered residents of FLorida. Our driver's licenses have the Good Sam address with our PMB #. You will have to give up your residency in California, so if you are still working in CA you are probably out of luck.

Florida charges a $100 one-time fee for each vehicle you license in the state. Our 1997 motorhome cost us $47 per year. You will have your LLC on your Florida title.

[bjohnson0812@gmail.com]

Hi,

I have a Country Coach that has had Montana Plates for 4 years and my Toad has Arizona Plates, I have a Utah Drivers license.

Recently I was stopped near Palm Springs for not traveling in the right hand lane.

The CHP reviewed my registration, insurance and dr. license; no ticket, and no written warning.

I strongly suggest the Montana LLC.

Bill J

[cthiggy]

For what it's worth....

I have a class A diesel motorhome registered in Montana and have never had problems to date.

Purchased it used in Camarillo CA (as a resident of Florida). Florida requires the RV to be outside state for the first six months to avoid sales tax with which I complied by immediately traveling to Canada and other states for that period.

Perhaps the original inquirer could solve his situation by registering his automobile in Montana through the LLC company. The attorney I used can certainly provide that for autos, boats and aircraft. Plus the registration fees for most automobiles are usually less there compared to California. The Drivers license "should" not be a problem because we can drive rental autos or borrowed vehicles in other states. (I.e., if challenged, one could explain that he/she are renting the RV/auto from the company.)

Haven't registered my autos in MT yet, but will if issues arise.

I have a distinct aversion to waste . Don't object to paying a fair price for a fair service. Unfortunately, I lived in California for more than 20 years and cannot think of any other state that wastes more money. Moreover, I also owned boats and aircraft which California tried to tax in several ways. In addition to waste, I object to being taxed more simply because it looks as if I can pay more . For some strange reason the concept of equality is totally absent from the Federal and State tax systems .

Good luck,

chuck

[ragdahl]

Hi Rick,

Are you leaving the State of California? That means, selling your current residential property and changing you voting address (California uses voting address as one means of establishing residency), and giving up your CA drivers license.

If none of these apply, then you are still a California resident and the DMV gives you 20 days to register a vehicle purchased out-of-state. So, you can go through the process to establish a Montana LLC, pay the several hundreds of dollars to establish the LLC and then pay an annual LLC maintenance fee - perhaps a mailing service fee as well (not sure of todays rules). BUT, you still can only VISIT California and if the local police and/or CHP see the vehicle parked for weeks - expect a HUGE fine for not adhering to the 20 day rule. Go to

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/ or

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/brochures/howto/htvr9.htm#feesdue

for information about the 20 day rule.

Hope this helps the information quest - it will not help the fact your license fee went up 30% - mine did.

Richard

Valley Springs, CA 95252

[tbutler]

Old Buck,

Your situation illustrates the problem with having no particular state for a residence. Many people get by without a problem doing this but then if you get caught, you have a difficult time. Win or lose on this one, it is still going to cost you some money. When we went full time, we picked a state, got our drivers license, vehicle licenses, address and consulted an attorney to have our trust documents brought into agreement with that state. We vote in that state on a regular basis. When we have purchased new vehicles we pay excise tax on them in that state. All of these things would be considered by a court if there ever were a question about our state of residence. With things scattered among many states you can pick and choose which ever state has the greatest advantage for a particular need but the courts can rule the same way and it likely won't be in your favor. Establishing a clear state of residence is your best defense against this problem. You might have to pay some taxes but after all, taxes are the price of civilization.

[thomasp]

We find ourselves in a predicament. We are California residents with California driver's licenses. We purchased our RV in Oregon, applied and received permission to not pay sales tax in CA if we keep the unit out for one year. Went to CA DMV to reigester the motorhome and were told we could not register it unless we had it physically there for them to inspect since it was bought out of state. We called the Board of Equalization and they said that we could not bring it into CA until the year is up. So, we are looking into the LLC from Montana for at least the year. Does anyone know how often are you allowed to bring in the unit as a "visitor" under the LLC in CA should we decide to keep the LLC after the year is up and want to bring it into CA occasionally.

Not looking for legal advice, just experience and ideas.

Thanks for any ideas.....

[wolfe10]

We find ourselves in a predicament. We are California residents with California driver's licenses. We purchased our RV in Oregon, applied and received permission to not pay sales tax in CA if we keep the unit out for one year. Went to CA DMV to register the motorhome and were told we could not register it unless we had it physically there for them to inspect since it was bought out of state. We called the Board of Equalization and they said that we could not bring it into CA until the year is up. So, we are looking into the LLC from Montana for at least the year. We are also considering getting a site in Oregon and establishing a legal address so we could register it there but don't know what that means for our residency in CA (income tax, etc.).

What would be the pro's and con's of the LLC, even after the year is up? Would it be better to register our tow vehicle and our boat with the LLC should we go that direction? Or, should we investigate the Oregon idea? Any other suggestions? How often are you legally allowed to bring in the unit as a "visitor" under the LLC in CA?

Thanks for any ideas.....

I have to say, it concerns me more than a little for someone to ask for legal advice on a forum. Most issues like this are far more complex than can competently be dealt with in this manner.

It would concern me MUCH MORE for them to rely on that advice to make decisions that could have far-reaching legal consequences for them and their family. In dialogs such as this it is very difficult for the advice-givers to have all the facts (let's face it many of the facts are confidential and you sure don't want them out on the Internet) AND also difficult for the advice-seeker to know the credentials of those giving the advice.

So PLEASE, look over the advice given-- and I am sure there will be some good advice given, BUT VERIFY THAT THE ADVICE WITH AN ATTORNEY TO MAKE SURE IT IS WHAT IS BEST FOR YOU.

Brett Wolfe

[tbutler]

I want to second Brett's comments. You may not be looking for legal advice but that is exactly what you need. You should consult an attorney who specializes in this area of law in your current home state and/or in your new state of residence. I wouldn't consult an attorney who is trying to sell you on an LLC. An attorney who is selling you something is in conflict of interest in advising you on the legality of the thing they are selling. You want to get the hard facts, not simply somebodies experience which may or may not be legal. Lots of people get away with things that aren't legal until something happens. Read the articles that tmoning posted above carefully. These people were going along happily until suddenly someone noticed that a number of RV'ers were using this method to avoid taxes and suddenly they were in trouble. In each case they clearly stated that they made a mistake and it wasn't worth the trouble they had. There is some good advice in those articles. Notice that each says they consulted an attorney. That is why I suggest you seek out an expert in the specific problem you are seeking an answer for.

[ragdahl]

We find ourselves in a predicament. We are California residents with California driver's licenses. We purchased our RV in Oregon, applied and received permission to not pay sales tax in CA if we keep the unit out for one year. Went to CA DMV to register the motorhome and were told we could not register it unless we had it physically there for them to inspect since it was bought out of state. We called the Board of Equalization and they said that we could not bring it into CA until the year is up. So, we are looking into the LLC from Montana for at least the year. Does anyone know how often are you allowed to bring in the unit as a "visitor" under the LLC in CA should we decide to keep the LLC after the year is up and want to bring it into CA occasionally.

Not looking for legal advice, just experience and ideas.

Thanks for any ideas.....

You said the "magic" word - visitor. Frequency is not the problem: 1) CA residency; 2) CA driver's license; 3) length of stay are the problems. If you maintain your residency and driver's license in California, then as a resident of the State you "MUST" conform to all the DMV rules or be legally liable for breaking the Law and awarded the full penalties - jail time.

With an LLC as the owner of the vehicle, the LLC is liable for registering the vehicle in the State of California if the vehicle spends most of its time within the State. Example; Greyhound buses and Trucking firms pay a pro-rated license fee for such vehicles.

This is the decision: "How do I want to break the Law" and "What are the consequences". The alternative is not to break the law, but MOVE legally out of California and return to "VISIT and VISIT ONLY". No working or paying California employment taxes or income taxes! Moving Out-of-State does not require to give up your California property but does require to make a "Legal" (in court) showing that you have moved out-of-state. This "Legal" showing will require you physically being out-of-state verifiable with hotel, motel or RV park receipts for more than 50% of the time - especially if you continue to maintain the former California Residency Address.

From reading between the lines of your e-mail, it does not sound like you are in a position to move-out-of-state and you definitely did not research this issue prior to buying the new RV. This after-the-fact position makes this whole issue more difficult - assuming the vehicle is already registered in your personal name California is now in the "Gotcha" position. You most likely have a "Temporary Oregon" license pending final registration in your Home State. If the LLC in Montana (LIMITED LIABILITY CORPORATION) being a separate business/ownership (other than you personally) owns the vehicle, you personally can not register the vehicle in the State of California after the LLC has maintained the vehicle for a year - you as an individual can own the vehicle for the year "if you" travel for a year out of state (and have receipts to prove the travel time). Other wise, you personally must move legally out of state and maintain this legal residency for a year or more and RE-ENTER California as a new resident and then this vehicle (which you have owned for over a year) becomes a non-sales taxable item. This is where the State of California says "Gotcha"!

This not legal advice, but the decision to "stretch the law" does place you into some serious jeopardy positions.

[MAGOWAN]

For what it's worth....

I have a class A diesel motorhome registered in Montana and have never had problems to date.

Purchased it used in Camarillo CA (as a resident of Florida). Florida requires the RV to be outside state for the first six months to avoid sales tax with which I complied by immediately traveling to Canada and other states for that period.

Perhaps the original inquirer could solve his situation by registering his automobile in Montana through the LLC company. The attorney I used can certainly provide that for autos, boats and aircraft. Plus the registration fees for most automobiles are usually less there compared to California. The Drivers license "should" not be a problem because we can drive rental autos or borrowed vehicles in other states. (I.e., if challenged, one could explain that he/she are renting the RV/auto from the company.)

Haven't registered my autos in MT yet, but will if issues arise.

I have a distinct aversion to waste . Don't object to paying a fair price for a fair service. Unfortunately, I lived in California for more than 20 years and cannot think of any other state that wastes more money. Moreover, I also owned boats and aircraft which California tried to tax in several ways. In addition to waste, I object to being taxed more simply because it looks as if I can pay more . For some strange reason the concept of equality is totally absent from the Federal and State tax systems .

Good luck,

chuck

Chuck,

You just don't understand. They are trying to get as much as they can from everybody, everything anybody has, if possible. What could be fairer than that?

[desmo]

Rick:

I am a California resident whojust registered my RV with a montana LLC. The deal is that the LLC buys the RV and takes delivery of the RV outside of California. The cost to set up the LLC, register the Rv and lawyer fees came to $1350. Every year after the first will cost about $150 to register the RV.

This is a bonified legal way to avoid California Sales tax but you must follow it to the letter of the law.

You may bring the RV into California as often as you like for maintenance purposes only. You may not store or use the rv in california. There is a squealer web site run by DMV to catch out of state license plates.

I have seen some RV in California storage with Montana plates, there is a lot of ignorance about laws.

After proof of 6 months out of state usage, you may register the RV in California and avoid paying the initial sales tax of 8+ percent.

If you already own the RV, you should talk to a montana lawyer to find a legal way to transfer ownership to a montana LLC.

This is the lawyer who handled my Rv http://www.bennettlawofficepc.com/

[diplomatman2002]

I would be very cautious about using a LLC . Some states are starting to clamp down on LLC'S. It is my understanding that in some cases that California has determined that persons with an LLC are businesses and are seeking fuel tax payment from the time that the LLC was filed.

Connecticut has also in some cases has started action against them due to the loss of revenue. With today's economy they are looking for new sources of income.

Paul DuBois

[SergeantMajor]

California Law

You indicated that you are currently a resident of California .

California Registration

California requires that vehicles be registered before being used in the state. The general registration requirement is found in the California Vehicle Code at Section 4000. The section provides, as relevant:

(a)(1) No person shall drive, move, or leave standing upon a highway, or in an offstreet public parking facility, any motor vehicle, trailer, semitrailer, pole or pipe dolly, or logging dolly, unless it is registered and the appropriate fees have been paid under this code or registered under the permanent trailer identification program, except that an off-highway motor vehicle which displays an identification plate or device issued by the department pursuant to Section 38010 may be driven, moved, or left standing in an offstreet public parking facility without being registered or paying registration fees.

Furthermore, a Montana LLC-owned motor home could not operate in California with its Montana plates indefinitely. Section 6700 of the Vehicle Code provides, as relevant:

( A nonresident owner of a vehicle, otherwise exempt from registration pursuant to this section or Section 6700.2, may operate or permit operation of the vehicle in this state without registering the vehicle in this state if the vehicle is registered in the place of residence of the owner and displays upon it valid license plates issued by that place. This exemption does not apply if the nonresident owner rents, leases, lends, or otherwise furnishes the vehicle to a California resident for regular use on the highways of this state, as defined in subdivision ( of Section 4000.4.

© Any resident who operates upon a highway of this state a vehicle owned by a nonresident who furnished the vehicle to the resident operator for his or her regular use within this state, as defined in subdivision ( of Section 400.4, shall cause the vehicle to be registered in California within 20 days of after its first operation within this state by the resident.

Section 4000.4, referenced above, provides:

(a) Except as provided in Sections 6700. 6702, and 6703, any vehicle which is registered to a nonresident owner, and which is based in California or primarily used on California highways, shall be registered in California .

( For purposes of this section, a vehicle is deemed to be primarily or regularly used on the highways of this state if the vehicle is located or operated in this state for a greater amount of time than it is located or operated in any other individual state during the registration period in question.

Therefore, in order to avoid triggering the registration requirement, the motor home must be used in any other single state for longer than it is used in California in a given year. The motor home can be used in multiple states as long as it is used in one of them for longer than it is used in California, for example by spending three months in California, six months in Nevada, two months in Arizona, and one month in Texas. Please also keep in mind that you must comply with the registration requirements of whatever other states you use the vehicle in. If the vehicle is going to spend a substantial length of time in a state other than Montana , check that state’s registration requirements to ensure that you can comply.

California Sales and Use Tax

California imposes a sales tax upon transactions occurring within the state. The tax is levied by the California Revenue and Taxation Code, Section 6051. The section provides:

For the privilege of selling tangible personal property at retail a tax is hereby imposed upon all retailers at the rate of 2 ½ percent of the gross receipts of any retailer from the sale of all tangible personal property sold at retail in this state on or after August 1, 1933, and to and including June 30, 1935, and at the rate of 3 percent thereafter, and at the rate of 2 ½ percent on and after July 1, 1943, and to and including June 30, 1949, and at the rate of 3 percent on and after July 1, 1949, and to and including July 31, 1967, and at the rate of 4 percent on and after August 1, 1967, and to and including June 30, 1972, and at the rate of 3 ¾ percent on and after July 1, 1972, and to and including June 30, 1973, and at the rate of 4 ¾ percent on and after July 1, 1973, and to and including September 30, 1973, and at the rate of 3 ¾ percent on and after October 1, 1973, and to and including March 31, 1974, and at the rate of 4 ¾ percent thereafter.

California ’s corresponding use tax is imposed by Section 6201. The section provides:

An excise tax is hereby imposed on the storage, use, or other consumption in this state of tangible personal property purchased from any retailer on or after July 1, 1935, for storage, use, or other consumption in this state at the rate of 3 percent of the sales price of the property, and at the rate of 2 ½ percent on and after July 1, 1943, and to and including June 30, 1949, and at the rate of 3 percent on and after July 1, 1949, and to and including July 31, 1967, and at the rate of 4 percent on and after August 1, 1967, and to and including June 30, 1972, and at the rate of 3 ¾ percent on and after July 1, 1972, and to and including June 30, 1973, and at the rate of 4 ¾ percent on and after July 1, 1973, and to and including September 30, 1973, and at the rate of 3 ¾ percent on and after October 1, 1973, and to and including March 31, 1974, and at the rate of 4 ¾ percent thereafter.

If you purchase your vehicle outside of California , the sales tax will not apply. However, if you purchase from a California dealer, sales tax can be avoided by having the vehicle delivered to you outside the state. Section 6396 provides:

There are exempted from the computation of the amount of the sales tax the gross receipts from the sale of tangible personal property which, pursuant to the contract of sale, is required to be shipped and is shipped to a point outside this state by the retailer by means of: (a) facilities operated by the retailer, or ( delivery by the retailer to a carrier, customs broker or forwarding agent, whether hired by the purchaser or not, for shipment to such out-of-state point.

For purposes of this section, the term “carrier†shall mean a person or firm engaged in the business of transporting for compensation tangible personal property owned by other persons, and includes both common and contract carriers. The term “forwarding agent†shall mean a person or firm engaged in the business of preparing property for shipment or arranging for its shipment.

California has previously used a 90-day exemption for the use tax. However, as part of the state budget passed by the California legislature in September 2008, that exemption was removed and the law was changed back to the one-year exemption used by the state from 2004 to 2007. Section 1620 of Title 18 of the California Code of Regulations provides, as relevant:

( Use tax.

(5) Purchase for Use in this State – Vehicles, Vessels, and Aircraft – 12-month test (From October 2, 2004, through June 30, 2007).

(A) Purchased for Use in California . Except as provided in subdivision ((5)(D) below, the provisions of subdivision ((5) apply from October 2, 2004, through June 30, 2007. A vehicle, vessel, or aircraft purchased outside of California which is brought into California is regarded as having been purchased for use in this state if the first functional use of the vehicle, vessel, or aircraft is in California . When a vehicle, vessel, or aircraft is purchased outside of California, is first functionally used outside of California, and is brought into California within 12 months from the date of its purchase, it is rebuttably presumed that the vehicle, vessel, or aircraft was acquired for storage, use, or other consumption in this state and is subject to use tax if any of the following occur:

1. The vehicle, vessel, or aircraft was purchased by a California resident as defined in section 516 of the Vehicle Code, as that section now reads or is hereinafter amended.

2. In the case of a vehicle, the vehicle was subject to registration under Chapter 1 (commencing with section 4000) of Division 3 of the Vehicle Code during the first 12 months of ownership.

3. In the case of a vessel or aircraft, that vessel or aircraft was subject to property tax in this state during the first 12 months of ownership.

4. The vehicle, vessel, or aircraft is used or stored in this state more than one-half of the time during the first 12 months of ownership.

( Evidence Rebutting Presumption. This presumption may be controverted by documentary evidence that the vehicle, vessel, or aircraft was purchased for use outside of this state during the first 12 months of ownership. This evidence may include, but is not limited to, evidence of registration of that vehicle, vessel, or aircraft, with the proper authority, outside of this state.

Operative September 20, 2006, in the case of a vehicle, this presumption also may be controverted by documentary evidence that the vehicle was brought into this state for the exclusive purpose of warranty or repair service and was used or stored in this state for that purpose for 30 days or less. The 30-day period begins when the vehicle enters this state, includes any time of travel to and from the warranty or repair facility, and ends when the vehicle is returned to a point outside the state. The documentary evidence shall include a work order stating the dates that the vehicle is in the possession of the warranty or repair facility and a statement by the owner of the vehicle specifying dates of travel to and from the warranty or repair facility.

To avoid being assessed a use tax on the vehicle, therefore, the motor home must have its first functional use outside the state of California . It must then spend more than half of the first year outside of California . After that time, it can be brought to California without being assessed a use tax. Additionally, during that first year, the vehicle must not be required to register in California , as outlined above.

Summary

Your motor home must be either purchased from a dealer outside of California or must be delivered to you outside of California by a California dealer. After it is purchased, the motor home can be exempted from tax if the first functional use of the motor home is outside of California . It must then be used or stored in California for less than half of the first year that you own it, and must not be required to register in California during that time. Once you have complied with this use tax exemption, the motor home may be registered in California if you wish. However, if you are able to comply with the California registration exemption, it is advantageous for you to continue to register the vehicle in Montana , which enables you to take advantage of Montana ’s lower registration fees.

[tmoning]

The following article from the June 21 Bellingham (Wash.) Herald addresses Washinton's views on registering an RV in Montana to avoid paying Washington taxes.

Register your RV in Montana, but feel the pain here

By John Henrikson

Federal Way reader Elbert Field came across an advertisement in Hemmings Motor News that gave him pause. The ad from Deer Creek Corporate Services promises: “Register your next vehicle in Montana & save thousands! Pay NO SALE TAX! Lowest rates in 50 States!”

“Pay no sales tax on a vehicle?!” wrote Mr. Field. “Does this ad make sense?”

He does recall a few years back a neighbor with a large motor home had Montana plates, presumably to save money. But he wonders if it’s legitimate.

Answer: A quick Internet search for “Montana Vehicle Registration” reveals a cottage industry of outfits in the Treasure State, promising big savings on vehicle registration. For a fee, they will set up an out-of-state buyer as a limited liability corporation with a Montana address, which allows them to avoid paying sales tax and license fees in their state of residence.

If you believe the sales pitch, it’s a tax loophole big enough to drive your Beaver Marquis Class A luxury coach through.

Don’t believe it, says the Washington State Department of Revenue.

“This is an area over which we have been concerned for some time, and have been pursuing individuals who have registered their motor homes in Montana using LLCs,” says Revenue spokesman Mike Gowrylow. “We have contended that this practice is illegal, and have successfully pursued some individuals who have tried this subterfuge to avoid paying sales tax.”

A new provision in the law passed in the latest legislative session was designed to help crack down on the tax dodge, Gowrylow said.

“This language clarifies the department’s authority to disallow such transactions and impose tax and penalties on anyone who is found forming out-of-state LLCs to avoid paying taxes due on such things as motor homes used in Washington by Washington residents,” he said.

The department’s tax discovery agents pursue tips from law enforcement agencies and the general public about possible tax scofflaws. (You can report a suspected violator online at dor.wa.gov/content/ContactUs/email/reportfraud.aspx).

Be warned: The recent legislation also stiffened penalties. “Someone caught using a Montana LLC to avoid paying sales tax could face a total 60 percent penalty plus interest,” Gowrylow said.

[diplomatman2002]

Rick As I have said in previous posts, Montana LLC;S are becoming a very iffy situation. As a member of the FMCA Governmental and Legislative Affairs Committee I have been keeping abreast of new laws and attempts to curb the use of Montana LLC'S. I have found that many states are cracking down on these. California, Colorado, Texas Oklahoma, and Connecticut are a few that come to mind. Yesterday I found that the state of Washington has enacted a law that states that anyone who is found to be living in the state and using a Montana LLC is subject to 60 percent penalty plus interest . Massachuttes has law enforcement watching for any such vehicles parked in Mass. for over 30 days at which time they will be subjected to fines and penalities. If you supply me with an e-mail address I would be happy to forward these to you.

Paul

diplomatman2002@yahoo.com

[cranej1]

We are "residents" of Michigan, but full-timers. We are in the State of Michigan for about two to three months on our property and then leave and travel throughout the country. We have had a Montana LLC since 2002. We would love to become residents of Montana, but we never stay in one location long enough for the required six months plus one day. The State of Michigan is now attempting to have us pay a "use" tax on the motorhome. Has anyone in Michigan, who are full-time RVers, been contacted by the Dept. of Treasury? Would you be willing to tell us who to contact, attorney or CPA, in Michigan who might be able to help? Thank you. Iris

[tbutler]

Why not give up the LLC and move to a state that has no income tax, no personal property tax on motor homes, low license fees and a reasonable (4%) though not zero excise tax on new motor homes? South Dakota is such a state. There hasn't been a residency requirement and if a proposed law passes the requirement will be one day! Get your drivers license in SD, register to vote in SD and contract with one of a number of mail forwarding/residence companies in the state.

If you don't like SD, there are other states with similar laws, Texas and Florida come to mind.

If you are full time, that will resolve the issue though it may not help you with the Michigan Treasury Department in your current situation. I'd bet if you fight this with an attorney you will end up spending more money on the attorney than it would cost to just drop the LLC and bail to another state.

[bobndorine2]

We find ourselves in a predicament. We are California residents with California driver's licenses. We purchased our RV in Oregon, applied and received permission to not pay sales tax in CA if we keep the unit out for one year. Went to CA DMV to reigester the motorhome and were told we could not register it unless we had it physically there for them to inspect since it was bought out of state. We called the Board of Equalization and they said that we could not bring it into CA until the year is up. So, we are looking into the LLC from Montana for at least the year. Does anyone know how often are you allowed to bring in the unit as a "visitor" under the LLC in CA should we decide to keep the LLC after the year is up and want to bring it into CA occasionally.

Not looking for legal advice, just experience and ideas.

We own property in California and bought our motorhome in Junction City just north of Eugene, Oregon. We had the paperwork to keep our coach out of California for one year but DMV required we bring it into them to verify serial numbers, etc., which would have voided our keeping it out for one year. Guarantee RV in Junction City has a certified person that verified everything for California's DMV. After one year we had to send several inches of receipts to the Franchise Tax Board to prove it was out of California for the year. After a while they wrote us back accepting our proof. If you own property in California and vote there, they'll get you one way or another. We were told that if we licensed in Montana, California would also charge us USE tax which is the same as the license fee. We are now attempting to sell our home and move out of California. We can no longer afford to support all the illegals getting free education, medical, welfair, etc.

[skyking8]

Just recived a fix it ticket for having a CA plate on my car and a MT plate on the motorhome..... The CHP is working the HWY 58/ Hwy 14 area.... I have been full time for 10 yrs but do not claim any state as residence. I have an LLC on the motorhome in MT. Last year I spent a total of 15 days in CA..... The CHP told me that he knew what the RVers were doing, screwing the state out of money..... CA is out of money and is trying to get funds anyway they can.... Will be going to court next week. Any help? I have a WA Telephone #, Get mail in OH, File taxes in TN, Belong to Gila Bend Elks. But I have a car licensed in CA and a CA drivers license...... which I was told by an attorney you don't have to become a resident of any state until you live their most of the time.

Just recived a fix it ticket for having a CA plate on my car and a MT plate on the motorhome..... The CHP is working the HWY 58/ Hwy 14 area.... I have been full time for 10 yrs but do not claim any state as residence. I have an LLC on the motorhome in MT. Last year I spent a total of 15 days in CA..... The CHP told me that he knew what the RVers were doing, screwing the state out of money..... CA is out of money and is trying to get funds anyway they can.... Will be going to court next week. Any help? I have a WA Telephone #, Get mail in OH, File taxes in TN, Belong to Gila Bend Elks. But I have a car licensed in CA and a CA drivers license...... which I was told by an attorney you don't have to become a resident of any state until you live their most of the time.

I have a Country Coach that has had Montana Plates for 4 years and my Toad has Arizona Plates, I have a Utah Drivers license.

Recently I was stopped near Palm Springs for not traveling in the right hand lane. The CHP reviewed my registration, insurance and dr. license; no ticket, and no written warning. I strongly suggest the Montana LLC.

The likelihood of a MH being stopped is slim. I've never been stopped. When law enforcement is stepping up enforcement as is mentioned in California, the chances of being sited would go up when one puts a bulleye on their forehead. That being two different plates, different driver's license, and other documents with various addresses.

I think I'd pick a state that overall proved to be "tax friendly" (obviously antonyms) in other ways besides sales tax. One with no state income tax, lesser cost and ease of online registration of the vehcile, long term driver's licenses, and no property tax on the MH. I like to save money, but a sales tax is rolled into the loan payment and over twenty years might not be worth the trouble it takes to juggle all the balls and stay legal.

[srb1534bus@bellsouth.net]

Ok we are possibly talking about (2) two different issues here. First a LLC to avoid sales tax and the vehicle registration of a owned vehicle. Not withstanding you being in a state that has laws strictly forbidding a Montana LLC, (these are mentioned earlier) the only reason to create a Montana LLC and maintain it is for the initial purchase of a new or nearly new motorhome to avoid ore preclude a sales tax levy which would be incurred in your state. Also you can then register and continue to register your vehicle in Montana. This being said you should bear in mind that you may be in a state that might denote that and levy significant penalties for instate tax evasion.

Now this being said, if you own your motorhome (RV) and you merely want to save or stop the annual high tag registration then to register in S. Dakota would be a better alternative. You can thru various agencies within the state set up a S. Dakota mail box (thats all that is required) and then register your motorhome and all other vehicle in that state and declare it as your residence. This is most appropriate for full timers. Also although not required you might at your discretion drop by most any town in S. Dakota and transfer your license to that state also. This would avoid any possible descrpancy should you be stopped.

I might emphasis on might consider the Montana LLC should I buy another new unit. But also bear in mind many finance companies will not now give loans to you via an LLC as their collection recouse is also deminished. This would depend on the state you live in and just how agressively they may be enforccing their registration policy.

But the S. Dakota tag plate registration is a great way to save lots of money on the annual registration and least likely to be questioned.

[dbelanger]

Have a friend who had a Montana LLC. He could not get an extended warranty company to sell him a warranty. Wouldn't sell to a corporation. You may have better luck.