Ford 450 Tire Size 225x75x16

[mikeleslie]

We think it is time to replace our Class C Michelin tires. There is some sidewall cracking, lots of tread. Our auto mechanic says they look good but we know it is difficult to tell on RV tires. 2003 Winnie 29B, on Ford 450. Tire size 225x75x16

I'm not tire savvy, but have read many posts on various RV sites. I do get confused with posts on big rigs; I am not sure if it pertains to my tire needs. Can someone, in the know, explain in simple terms what I need to look for when purchasing tires? :-)

1 .I read things like: ' Get RV tires, not truck tires.' True? If so how do I know they are RV tires? And is it important?

2 .You can get Michelin at Costco. (We checked and they said they have no way to mount them. So how did you get tires mounted at Costco???)

3. People say they saved $1300 using the Michelin Advantage. We are only getting estimates of $200-300 savings.

4. I see other tire brands mentioned i.e. Dunlop, Toro, BFG, Goodyear Are they apples-to-apples in comparison to Michelin?

5, Isn't the Ford 450 a light truck, but is a light truck tire sufficient with all the additional house weight?

Anything you can add to our first time Class C tire purchase experience would be helpful. TIA

Mike Leslie

2003 Class C Minnie 29B

[kaypsmith]

I hope Tireman9 reads your post, if he doesn't respond try a pm (private message) to him. He is well versed as that is what he did for years, and currently does forums at some of the rallies. You can look at the date codes on any size tire to determine the age of the tire, If the sidewalls are cracking, that's not a good sign. Tires with too much age is not a good thing regardless of how much tread is left. Most of us have to replace our tires long before they are actually worn out

because most rv'ers don't put that many miles on our rigs. Also you can take into account that the larger rv's require larger tires than a smaller class c, hence a much larger outlay on the initial cost of tires. Taking this into account is why

the savings on a set of smaller tires will be much less than a rig with 22.5 tires versus 16, also some of the larger rigs have eight tires instead of six.

Welcome to FMCA and hope you will have many happy tales, and trails, Kay

[desertdeals69]

Are the tires the originals that came with the coach new? I would stick with the Michelins. Usually the difference between a truck tire and an rv tire is the stiffness of the sidewall. Age is somewhere between 5 years and 10 years before replacement.

[tireman9]

We think it is time to replace our Class C Michelin tires. There is some sidewall cracking, lots of tread. Our auto mechanic says they look good but we know it is difficult to tell on RV tires. 2003 Winnie 29B, on Ford 450. Tire size 225x75x16

I'm not tire savvy, but have read many posts on various RV sites. I do get confused with posts on big rigs; I am not sure if it pertains to my tire needs. Can someone, in the know, explain in simple terms what I need to look for when purchasing tires? :-)

1 .I read things like: ' Get RV tires, not truck tires.' True? If so how do I know they are RV tires? And is it important?

2 .You can get Michelin at Costco. (We checked and they said they have no way to mount them. So how did you get tires mounted at Costco???)

3. People say they saved $1300 using the Michelin Advantage. We are only getting estimates of $200-300 savings.

4. I see other tire brands mentioned i.e. Dunlop, Toro, BFG, Goodyear Are they apples-to-apples in comparison to Michelin?

5, Isn't the Ford 450 a light truck, but is a light truck tire sufficient with all the additional house weight?

Anything you can add to our first time Class C tire purchase experience would be helpful. TIA

Mike Leslie

2003 Class C Minnie 29B

It would help if you could provide a bit more information.

What is the DOT serial data on your tires? I assume they are not original.

What size and Load Range tires and inflation is specified on the placard?

Do you have actual scale weigh slips taken when the RV was fully loaded? Ideally you have the individual corner weights.

RE "RV" vs "Truck" tires.

I am not aware of any industry or government standardized tests that are RV specific. Some companies do market to the RV user and make claims about their tires but I have not seen data making a direct comparison between tires from different manufacturers that try and simulate RV use so I tend to consider "RV" tires to be primarily more of a marketing designation than a technical one so I try and stay away from making brand specific recommendations.

Here is a post from my blog on "Best Tire"

More info once I get the answers to the above questions.

[jleamont]

It would help if you could provide a bit more information.

What is the DOT serial data on your tires? I assume they are not original.

What size and Load Range tires and inflation is specified on the placard?

Do you have actual scale weigh slips taken when the RV was fully loaded? Ideally you have the individual corner weights.

RE "RV" vs "Truck" tires.

I am not aware of any industry or government standardized tests that are RV specific. Some companies do market to the RV user and make claims about their tires but I have not seen data making a direct comparison between tires from different manufacturers that try and simulate RV use so I tend to consider "RV" tires to be primarily more of a marketing designation than a technical one so I try and stay away from making brand specific recommendations.

Here is a post from my blog on "Best Tire"

More info once I get the answers to the above questions.

Tireman9 I too was hoping you would see this. He has the same chassis I use to have, the oem tires are 10ply "E" load range. I do not recal the tire pressure specs for the front but the rear were supposed to be set to 65psi, (tire max for 10ply was 80psi) the problem I had at 60 there was evidence of "kissing" and I experienced several tire failures, all were a different failure type, nothing consistent. I bumped up to a full steel casing Bridgestone R250, while I never had another problem again the additional weight and stiffness of the tires affected the ride and fuel consumption. These were a small price to pay for piece of mind, I also recommends he weigh the coach in a loaded situation, ours was over on the drive axle with a full load of fresh water.

Joe

[mikeleslie]

Thank you for the responses. Our Class C 2003 Minnie 29B is in storage, so I can't read what is on the tire to find out how old they are. If memory is correct, I think it is going on ten years. I will post if I get a change to go over to the storage tomorrow.

As to weight, we did have axles weighted last summer. We were dismayed that the rear axle was 900# over. We only have our clothes, vacuum and a folding chair stored in the back. If we took everything out that we put in, it would still register over. (We were pulling a small trailer with a golf cart, if that makes much difference. ?) Tanks were about half full. Front axle was about 1000# under. It is frustrating that there is nothing, that we are aware of, to reduce the back axle weight short of taking out the bed and closets.

We'll try to weigh each wheel at the grainery when we take it out of storage. Do we use these weights to figure out tire pressure?

Tireman9- I could not use your site. My virus protection said there was a threat. I tried different ways to get in, I finally tried another computer using your blog web address. It worked. (Same virus protection, go figure). Learned a lot about tires. Thank you for sharing.

So does it look like Michelin LTXM / S2E 225/75/16 seem like the tire to get?

Mike Leslie

Class C Winnebago Minnie 29B

[jleamont]

Mike, I have a friend that swears by Michelin, he has a 2009 Fleetwood Jamboree on the same chassis as you E450 super duty. His is a 31' coach, he is also over on the drive axle, not sure how this keeps happening with class c's. I weighed ours with a full tank of water but the compartments were empty, I was 1100 over, with that being said I ran the tires on the rear at 80 psi and I installed a tire pressure monitoring system. The TPMS system saved me with all of the tire problems by alerting me before the tire came apart, and valve stem extension failures I experienced with that coach.

If they are 10 years old I would replace them, for extra protection pick up a set of tire covers for when it is stored, they will help the next Set no look so bad at 7 years, that is a s far as I would run the next set, also take a peek at the spare, make sure it is good enough so you have it in case you need it.

Tire failures on a motorhome can be scary and they usually do a lot of damage.
Shop around for tires, I ran a set of Firestone trans force HT's and had good luck with those also, they were more cost effective than the Michelins, I did not check the Michelins with the FMCA discount, it may work out better for the Michelins.
Good luck.
Joe

[mikeleslie]

I was able to go to the RV storage today.

The number on the existing Michelin tires is 06-5093701 Holy Smokes! Does that mean the tires were manufactured in 2001?? That means they are 14 years old??? If so, I think I will purchase another set of Michelins. That is older than expected!

We are the third owners, but I think the other two stored indoors, as we do during the winter. We used 303 sun protection and covers in the summer. Maybe previous owners did that too. We have had this class c for a little over a year and a half.

While at the storage I got the axle weights too.

The first number is the GAWR Second number is the truck scale weight

GAWR Pounds

4600 Steer axle 3700#

9450 Rear Axle 10560#

Trailer w/Golf Cart 1460#

It was interesting to read someone else is 1100 lbs over. What can we do about it in terms of tires? Class C is made over-weight on the rear (kind of like some of us ;-). Will puling a toad four-down add to the rear weight?

I'm appreciating this discussion.

Mike Leslie

Class C 2003 Winnebago Minnie 29B

[jleamont]

Mike, pulling with all 4 down shouldn't add to the weight on the back of the coach. I had a golf cart that I towed in an enclosed trailer (since have sold it) but it did add tongue weight to onto the coach hitch, and you could feel it. Not sure what yours is rated at for towing (sticker usually on the hitch from th RV co) but our our old coach was rated to tow 3500lbs with a max of 350lbs of tongue weight. I towed a car with a dolly at first then bought a Jeep Wrangler and I flat towed the Jeep (much easier). Like Brett said early on it must be due to the frame extensions the RV manufacture adds to the chassis.

Example: Our door jamb showed a 185" wheel base...but it actually measured 201", when You looked underneath you could see where the frame was spliced. I discovered this when I was replacing U-joints on the driveshaft, everyone only listed a two piece driveshaft including the dealer, ours was a three piece thankfully they used the same parts including the support bearings, just more of them.

According to Ford we had 65" of after frame (center of rear axle to the end of the frame rails)...it was more like 132", it to had additional rails added where Ford left off. see the attached picture, I had 11' from the center of the rear axle to the bumper.

[tireman9]

I was able to go to the RV storage today.

The number on the existing Michelin tires is 06-5093701 Holy Smokes! Does that mean the tires were manufactured in 2001?? That means they are 14 years old??? If so, I think I will purchase another set of Michelins. That is older than expected!

We are the third owners, but I think the other two stored indoors, as we do during the winter. We used 303 sun protection and covers in the summer. Maybe previous owners did that too. We have had this class c for a little over a year and a half.

While at the storage I got the axle weights too.

The first number is the GAWR Second number is the truck scale weight

GAWR Pounds

4600 Steer axle 3700#

9450 Rear Axle 10560#

Trailer w/Golf Cart 1460#

It was interesting to read someone else is 1100 lbs over. What can we do about it in terms of tires? Class C is made over-weight on the rear (kind of like some of us ;-). Will puling a toad four-down add to the rear weight?

I'm appreciating this discussion.

Mike Leslie

Class C 2003 Winnebago Minnie 29B

Nope "06-5093701" is not the DOT serial.. Look for the letters DOT followed by about 11 letters & numbers. You can review THIS blog post to learn more about decoding the tire "birth date.

RE weights You are heavy in the rear by 1,110#. Also you don't know if all that extra weight is on one side or not. Few RVs are balanced 50/50% side to side. I suggest you might be closer to 45/55% so knowing you are overweight makes it very important to reduce the load as much as possible and to learn the actual "corner" tire loads ASAP. The golf cart may be adding 200# to the rear but it depends on weight and balance of the small trailer and distance from hitch ball to rear axle.

THIS page from Michelin shows how to do the math. This page has similar worksheet from Bridgestone. You will see that both tire companies provide almost identical advice on the importance of knowing actual tire loading.

This post shows me checking my weights before the Redmond Convention. Note the comments about Washington, Idaho and Florida. Other states may have similar policies.

Now a "4 down" will not add any meaningful weight to the rear tire load because the load on the tow ball is very light.

We will be interested in learning your actual 4 corner loads.

[tireman9]

Thank you for the responses. Our Class C 2003 Minnie 29B is in storage, so I can't read what is on the tire to find out how old they are. If memory is correct, I think it is going on ten years. I will post if I get a change to go over to the storage tomorrow.

As to weight, we did have axles weighted last summer. We were dismayed that the rear axle was 900# over. We only have our clothes, vacuum and a folding chair stored in the back. If we took everything out that we put in, it would still register over. (We were pulling a small trailer with a golf cart, if that makes much difference. ?) Tanks were about half full. Front axle was about 1000# under. It is frustrating that there is nothing, that we are aware of, to reduce the back axle weight short of taking out the bed and closets.

We'll try to weigh each wheel at the grainery when we take it out of storage. Do we use these weights to figure out tire pressure?

Tireman9- I could not use your site. My virus protection said there was a threat. I tried different ways to get in, I finally tried another computer using your blog web address. It worked. (Same virus protection, go figure). Learned a lot about tires. Thank you for sharing.

So does it look like Michelin LTXM / S2E 225/75/16 seem like the tire to get?

Mike Leslie

Class C Winnebago Minnie 29B

RE virus protection. You should have the ability to add an "Exception" to the virus program. PM me or send me direct email and I will put you in contact with someone that might be able to help.

[tireman9]

Tireman9 I too was hoping you would see this. He has the same chassis I use to have, the oem tires are 10ply "E" load range. I do not recal the tire pressure specs for the front but the rear were supposed to be set to 65psi, (tire max for 10ply was 80psi) the problem I had at 60 there was evidence of "kissing" and I experienced several tire failures, all were a different failure type, nothing consistent. I bumped up to a full steel casing Bridgestone R250, while I never had another problem again the additional weight and stiffness of the tires affected the ride and fuel consumption. These were a small price to pay for piece of mind, I also recommends he weigh the coach in a loaded situation, ours was over on the drive axle with a full load of fresh water.

Joe

If you are having problems with Kissing I have to wonder about the wheel offset or if oversize tires were put on the RV to allow the RV assembler to meet regulatory requirements. Wheels should have a part number and if you contact the wheel mfg you should be able to learn the "Dual Spacing" spec for the wheels. This MUST be at least as much as specified for the tires according to the published numbers from your tire company. You may have to do some research to learn what Ford? originally put on that model cut-away van and what size tires they originally specified.

[tireman9]

A general comment on tire overloading on long Class-C RVs. ie over 28' in length.

In my opinion....

As RV assemblers move to longer and longer "Class-C" RVs it appears they may be compromising the original design intent and limits of the chassis manufacturer (Ford or Chevy).

Extending the wheel base will definitely increase the loading and if not done correctly, will result in not only a loss of total load capacity but hamper the ability of the owner to carry the clothes and other "stuff" they want to take along.

If you own a Class-C longer than 28' or have a friend who does, you can do both you and your friend a favor by ensuring you have the capacity to carry the load you want.

When selling the "bling" there are not many RV dealers that are willing to loose a potential sale by pointing out a low or limited load capacity. Some may not be aware of modifications to the original chassis which might contribute to future difficulties such as overloaded tires or driveshaft issues or possible tire "kissing" problems.

Did a bit of research and find a LT225/70R19.5 listed for current F450. While these might provide more tire capacity they will not increase the GAWR which may be the limiting factor.

[jleamont]

Tireman thanks for the input, he is operating an E450 cutaway chassis, the F450/F550 or pickup truck cab has the low pro truck tire 22570r19.5 with an F rating if they were on the econoline the chassis world would be a better place. I had the tire kissing issue and once I removed the goodyears after one tossed the tread on I95 in SC the kissing went away, not sure why it happened in the first place. wheels were original and the tire size LT22575 r16 is the posted size on the manufactures label.

14 years old......it was time to replace awhile ago.

It's nice to have someone here with your background on tires.

Joe

[mikeleslie]

I've appreciate the comments. We could not find a DOT on the tire. But here is the update.

Got new tires today. Discount Tire said our old Michelins were in good shape for 11 years old (they said the tires were from 2004)! The rig is a 2003, so I don't know why the tires are a year newer. I would have expected tires would be maybe the same year or a year older. We purchased Michelin again. Discount Tire did a price match to the FMCA Michelin Advantage, plus it was about 40 miles closer. There also is a Michelin rebate of $70 .

We also went to the fertilizer storage and got wheel weights. Here are the last summer axle weights, compared to today's wheel weights:-- tanks empty, gas half a tank, no food or clothes The rear is over from the start.

GAWR Pounds last summer ----------March 13, 2015 Total weighing four tires , tanks empty,gas half

4600 Steer axle 3700# 1720 and 1880 = 3600

9450 Rear Axle 10560# 5310 and 5250 = 10,560

Trailer w/Golf Cart 1460#

We put 80# air in back , 70# on steer tires.

What do you think about all of this ?

Mike Leslie

2003 Winnebago Winnie 29B

[gbrinck]

LOL! I think you need a Class A, so you will have a chassis that is actually capable of carrying the RV body, your gear and the usual number of passengers. Sorry, I know that's not funny to you, but there is no way to fix an overload except to remove weight or swap coaches.

Seriously, that's a lot of overage if no gear onboard. Not just the rear axle - you are over the 14,050 GVWR as well. What does the RVIA weight sticker show for the UL (Unladen Weight) as it came from the factory?

[jleamont]

Mike, good to hear, new tires were your only option from the sounds of it.

As far as the weight goes, I do not know what to say, I lived with it on our old coach after some modifications, Bilstein shocks, Firestone ride rite air bag helpers, Roadmaster sway bars and a rear track bar addition, all masked the over weight feel on the rear and made the unit handle much better on the highway. I felt comfortable driving it after the modifications. Knowing it is over in the rear is good, you can tailor your driving habits based off of that.
Good luck
Joe

[tireman9]

Mike

Have you learned how to find and read the DOT serial of your tires? ALL tires have a full serial but most only have it on one side of the tire.

The receipt should have the FULL 11 or 12 character serial for each tire written on on it.

If there is ever a recall the DOT serial is what you need to know to learn if your tires are under a recall or not. Get and KEEP this information where you can find it.

RE your load situation. IMO it looks like the dealer failed to adequately warn you of the small load capacity of this unit. Of course I think some dealers either have no idea of what feature is important and are more interested in making the sale so just talk about the "Bling", lights and mirrors and simply have no idea about load capacity or don't want to tell the prospective buyer.

Now what to do? The only thing I can suggest is to off load more of the stuff you carry. Don't know where the water tank is but maybe you need to cut back on how much fresh water you carry and plan on needing water hook-up every night camping. Holding tanks probably need to be emptied every time you leave a campground.

The tongue weight of the trailer could be 50# or it could be 250# check it out.

Good luck. This might not be good news but at least you know you need to do some work which is better than not knowing and having a tire problem down the road.

[mikeleslie]

Thank you all so much. You have been helpful with information and suggestions. We are dismayed about the rear weight being a design flaw, and we must live with it. Live and learn.

Mike Leslie

[tireman9]

Thank you all so much. You have been helpful with information and suggestions. We are dismayed about the rear weight being a design flaw, and we must live with it. Live and learn.

Mike Leslie

Sorry the info didn't work out for you.

The sales side of the RV industry IMO treats tires as the least desirable thing to talk about when they are trying to make a sale. It is also true that the guy on the floor may know little or nothing about tires. After all he may have been selling cars last month.

Not all RV publications do prospective owners any favors either. I just saw an article on affordabley priced, entry level Class-A units (~$100k). They gave some facts and included GVWR but didn't bother with the more important IMO CCC or Cargo Carrying Capacity. What good is it to know your GVWR is 18,000# if the CCC is only 800# when a different RV might have a GVWR of 16,000# but might have a CCC of 1,200#.

A quick check on-line and I note that few brochures offer this important figure to the prospective buyer.

[clarinetone]

Has anyone had experience with using Cooper Discoverer HT3 LT225/75R16E ( 115R ) tires?

[jleamont]

Has anyone had experience with using Cooper Discoverer HT3 LT225/75R16E ( 115R ) tires?

Not on this application, but I did have them on my Jeep, no issues.

I ran the Firestone Transforce HT and later the Bridgestone R250 in this size on our old coach. Both performed very well.