Two Unresolved Buying Issues

[RodgerS]

Please don't turn this into a gas vs diesel topic. This is a new technology topic best answered by those who have used these upgrades, recently.

Gas Suspension Notes

I have read many forum safety and handling upgrade comments regarding the gas F53 V10 options, and an article by the RV Doctor “Improving Motorhome Ride, Handling, and Steering,” that mention such things as weight distribution, tire inflation, testing the shock springs, replacing the shocks with Bilsteins or Konis, the cheap handling fix, sway bars, checking the alignment, a true track bar, a steering dampner, rear air bags, and rear stabilizer bar. These items seem to be well understood as adding good value.

Questions

1) Can the gas F53 suspension ride be upgraded to allow for a reasonably comfortable ride across the U.S. or is a dp the only reasonable option?

2) If yes, are front air bags from Firestone, air bag and softer spring from Kelderman’s, or front Summos the key?

[wolfe10]

Rodger,

Because "reasonably comfortable ride" is to a large degree subjective, there really is no "this one is acceptable, this one is not".

Yes, DP's with air suspension WILL ride better than any gas coach. But there is a wide range of ride qualities within gas coaches. Clearly physics plays a part-- WB/OL (wheelbase to overall length) ratio is very important. Related is amount of coach behind the rear axle and weight behind the rear axle.

Then you DO get into aftermarket devices what clearly help. But, they will not turn a gas coach into a DP.

Best advice is for you to select some "less than perfect" roads and take some test drives. Virtually everything will drive OK on smooth roads with no cross wind!

[wildebill308]

Rodger,

Do you have a coach now? Brett makes a very good point. What is your experience level?

Bill

[obedb]

We need to know more. If you are considering a new F-53 V10, you could probably find a very nice used DP for less money. If you already own a gas powered unit that you are not happy with because of the ride you may be stuck. Handling can be improved with some after market stuff but probably not the ride. Been there, done that. Love our older DP bought for considerably less than a really nice gasser. Don't miss our gas powered coach bought new with financing. Cost more than our 2003 40' Phaeton when adjusted for inflation and when you add the financing cost wow! We were young and going to live forever. We are so much better off because we were able to pay cash for the Phaeton.

[obedb]

At the risk of over doing the subject/ the chassis is delivered to the coach builders facility stock. If some or all of the aftermarket equipment available would really help, why wouldn't the coach builder add equipment that will help their product standout from competitors. IMHO

[wolfe10]

ObedB,

VERY easy answer to that one.

If two manufactures made similar coaches, and one spend $2000 to upgrade the chassis and the other spend $2000 upgrading the interior WHO DO YOU THINK WOULD SELL MORE COACHES?

Said another way the manufacturers ARE doing it right from a business perspective.

In fact, I cover just that in the Suspension Seminar I present at the FMCA Conventions.

[RodgerS]

Brett: I was hoping mostly to hear from those who have put the question 2 upgrades in, but a suspension instructor will do.

There are very few posts available from buyers of Firestones, Kelderman's or Sumos. That may be an answer itself because of the lack of

past buyers talking up the benefits of their installs.

Advanced member Texas: "Handling can be improved with some after market stuff but probably not the ride."

I agree that handling can be improved, but I'm not so sure the ride ability is a totally dead issue, but maybe it is...

just due to the lack of happy buyers posting their successful stories.

Advanced member with Pets: "why wouldn't the coach builder add equipment that will help their product standout from competitors"

My personal take is that gas Class A coaches are viewed as targeted to new buyers who won't be traveling much and that some of the upgrades, being subjective as Brett says, can be added easily, so why raise the price point from the mfg perspective?

Same issue as low and high voltage protection...easy to add and easy to argue the coach should come with it.

It seems very common that mfgs put basic and low quality things like tires, batteries, converters, and inverters because they feel they have to, but know that most customers will upgrade those items after they gain some experience using an RV. Hard to sell an RV or MH without tires on it, for example, and new buyers often don't know the difference or what is missing that they should have.

[jleamont]

RodgerS, what are you trying to achieve, softer ride, less sway or less wind pushing you off the road? Here is why I ask and my story.

Our previous coach was a Class C 31' on a Ford E-450 Chassis. While it didn't ride too rough down the road every car that would pass me would blow me off onto the shoulder unless I saw them coming and I could steer into it, and you would get this terrible sway like a ship getting tossed around the ocean. We had a friend travel with us once to a campground and she felt nauseated riding in it. It had Firestone Ride Rite bags in the rear when we bought it, everything else was just as it came from Ford.

I replaced the sway bars with Roadmaster products (Front and Rear) I installed a rear Track bar from www.supersteerparts.com and replaced all of the shocks with Bilstein RV shocks and added front coil spring air bags (front axle was over loaded from Coachmen with the overhead bunk, it kept bottoming out shearing off the rubber jounce bushings). After it handled like a car, no more getting blown off the road, no more sway, it did ride a little bit rougher (my guess is the shocks played a part in this and the front bags helping support the suspension were the other reason). The scary part was before you knew when you were into a corner too fast, you felt like it was going over, after it didn't lean at all, which could make one think it's safe to take a corner faster when in reality it's not.

I hope this helps answer some of your questions.

[RodgerS]

Your experience backs up the assumption that the 3 upgrades I was focused on have too limited or negative effects as to ride-ability. Thank You.

One poster on some forum said that most of his friends purchased their units with only a couple of months or so of research and walking around shows and lots. Those buyers commonly ended up buying a series of units before they settled into what they needed. I think the availability of credit when working supports that approach.

I have been researching this for about 2 years after my retirement from my service business unrelated to this industry. During that time I earned my RVIA Certified Electrical Specialist and Inspector designations. I also worked 60 hours a week 6 days a week for 3 1/2 months at a RV rental center as a technician. Did just about everything. Now I do RV extended warranty inspections. Also took some appliance classes, like A/C, from Northampton.

I'm in no hurry to buy as I have plenty of day trips in Northern California to keep me occupied during my retirement and a Boxer puppy I have been training daily. Susan and I will go to Yosemite this Wednesday for the day.

I will buy used for cash and would like to buy once and be done...and I think I will also continue to travel internationally. I will probably buy a used Newmar Dutch Star or a used Country Coach.

I don't really feel I need buying help at this point or suggestions, but getting a bit firmer resolution of a couple of issues that I feel are gray areas, is part of my ongoing research. I will be in Kentucky in May 2016 at the RVSEF conference where my wife will get a 3 hour driving lesson in a Class A.

My wife and I plan to take 2 to 3 month extended trips a couple of times a year and not sell our home in Northern California. My wife is from China and is new to this concept. I have traveled and lived in a C, a truck with a camper on its bed, and a truck with a trailer. Though that was many years ago.

For several months I explored the 5th option seriously, but find it doubtful I will go that direction as when I get the quality of a used 5th that I would want it tends to lead to owning a semi hauler. The cost of a high quality used dp is very favorable, in particular since I'm a very good inspector (based on client feedback) and I feel very comfortable with tearing apart, maintaining, and repairing all the home components of a MH. I will probably help other RVers that I run into while on the road.

I am currently working on my appliance and chassis specialist designations.

[jleamont]

RodgerS, Your Welcome. Sounds like you have it figured out. Good luck with your certifications they will pay off after owning any type of RV you settle on.

Joe

[campcop]

I have had the oportunity to have owned both a 2012 F53 chassis Mh and a diesel pusher.

The F53 was modified with the cheap handling fix, a rear sway bar and a tru control ....it handled very well after that but the ride did not improve...the difference being leaf springs vs air bags.

Even air bag suspension has its problem like porpoising etc which can be cured with modification to the air lines to the bags but then you get a little stiffer ride.

[RodgerS]

Thanks for the response. RodgerS.