Cummins Fault Code Yellow Light On

[jleamont]

Weekend road trip in heavy rain and I now have the engine "warning" lamp on, not the "check engine" lamp. Coach runs great no power loss and it all started when we stopped to eat dinner, when I restarted it the warning lamp was illuminated.

Code 190 FMI 10 engine speed sensor. Anyone experience this with a Cummins ISL? I see there are two- three engine speeds sensors not sure which one this code relates to?

I plan on crawling under it tomorrow after work disconnecting the one near the starter just above the oil pan to see if it has water in the connection. Rain was heavy for a 6 hour drive up and back.

[dickandlois]

37 minutes ago, jleamont said:

Weekend road trip in heavy rain and I now have the engine "warning" lamp on, not the "check engine" lamp. Coach runs great no power loss and it all started when we stopped to eat dinner, when I restarted it the warning lamp was illuminated.

code 190 FMI 10 engine speed sensor. Anyone experience this with a Cummins ISL? I see there are two- three engine speeds sensors not sure which one this code relates to?

Do you have a Caps fuel supply or CHPR sytem on the engine-- yours is close to the transition line. 

The 190 code is not showing up in my files, Did you read it using the manual method switches or a code reader ?

Rich.

 

[jleamont]

Rich,

CAPS.

I saw the code also as P190 but my scan gauge displayed code 190 FMI 10.

[jleamont]

Rich, I just scanned it with my OTC Genesis and it is also displaying 190. 

[dickandlois]

Think your though of checking the connection(s) is a good starting point. The item that has me a little confused is that you where driving in the rain and no indication of a check engine code.

Remove connection, clean, check weather seals, look for any oxidation, add some electrical grease and reconnect.

The only thing I can think of is the sensor is located were water could run down into the area when stopped.

 Rich.

[jleamont]

Here is where they are located, just next to the starter (sweating bullets on that one ) I was afraid they were near the CAPS pump on the back side of the front cover which is very tight over there. Being located down low on the drivers side would make sense on getting hit with water from the left rear duals throwing all that water spray back there. My gut tells me its water in one of the two connections.

I ordered them from my local Cummins dealer at $47.65 each I will just replace them since they are 14 yrs old. I plan on changing them out tomorrow night after work, tonight I will pull the starter motor and see if there is any water in the connectors. Here is something you do not hear often (great design), per Cummins when one fails the ECM will rely on the other to keep you moving, the "Warning" light illuminates so you get it to a Cummins repair shop ASAP, if a problem existed in both it would have illuminated the "Check engine light" and engine power would have been cut or it could have stalled. Kind of a built in safety. 

 

[dickandlois]

Good to know you have located them. Removing the starter in not too bad of a job. That indicates the magnets that trigger the speed and engine crank location are attached to the flywheel. Measure the sensor resistance of the old ones and compare the readings to the new ones. I'm thinking they will read about the same unless one of the coils opened or maybe shorted! 

Having two sensors is where the 190-1 and 190-2 comes from.  A #1 reading would defiantly indicate the one that is bad. Hope they also made it so one cannot reverse the connections between the 2. Wonder how many degrees the sensors are separated? to make sure that the intake and exhaust valves are both closed on compression.

Code 190-1(0) Engine Crankshaft speed / position Data valid,but above nominal operation range. Most serve level.    Affect--Fuel injection disabled until engine speed drops below the over speed limit. 

Code 190-2 Engine Crankshaft speed / location data erratic, Intermittent or Incorrect.   Affect--Engine can run rough. Possibly poor starting. Engine runs using backup speed sensor. Engine power is reduced. 

Rich.

[jleamont]

Rich, I will defiantly mark the plugs before disconnecting. The sensors are the same part number qn.2 I would say its safe to assume they could be easily mixed up, just not sure what, if any affect it will have if switched, I am not even sure if one is bad but to pull the starter down and test seems like good insurance to replace them while there since the ECM has identified a fault. I will ohm them once I crawl under just out of curiosity. Like most parts when you are working on a 14 yr old engine they have been redesigned a few times. Hopefully it is simple and none of the hardware fights me on the way out. I am grateful they designed a back up into the system.

 Thank you for the explanation above!

I will post the ohm results and the removal and installation.

 

[hermanmullins]

Joe,

When you do pull your starter open up the solenoid. Check and clean all contact points. Easily done with the starter out and my prevent starting problems down the road.

If you have never pulled your starter on a Cummins, be prepared it is HEAVY :-O, about 60 pounds. I did mine and this 79 year old found out he can still press that much laying on his back.

Let us know how the sensors change out goes.

Herman

[dickandlois]

Joe, Number one becomes number two if reversed. So the engine issue would match the issues described for 190-2.

Electronic circuit boards are not smart enough to know the difference, they just read the signals supplied. Number 1 is TDC and #2 if off a few degrees. If they get reversed and are located behind the starter would lead to R and R of the starter just to reverse the connections.

The devil is in the details !!! LOL

Rich. 

[jleamont]

Ugg!! They are in but I can't start it (need 15 quarts of transmission fluid for the hydraulic system). They were not near the starter per Cummins. They were on the front cover between the compressor and fuel injection pump (I found them with my bore scope). I pulled the compressor with the hydraulic pump attached to it (required a 2" open end wrench) removed the hydraulic tank, mud flap, exhaust tail pipe and slid the compressor back and down so I could stuff my hand back there to feel them. So I had to replace them blind. The connectors were spaced out with a plastic clip so they remained together (I was talking to myself with the clip it did make them hard to disconnect) No way to mix them up. Surprisingly they both came out with little effort. Neither Ohmed the same as the new ones and one had a bulge on the magnet face. Fingers crossed no leaks from the compressor mounting and the fault code goes from hard fault to memory so I can clear it. If it wasn't for Monaco's large rear engine bay doors it would have been nearly impossible to accomplish. 

Not a job for most to attempt. It took me 3 hours to do.  

[dickandlois]

1 hour ago, jleamont said:

Not a job for most to attempt. It took me 3 hours to do

That job sounds like one of those, "Are You Kidding ME" ones. I was sure hoping that they where located behind the starter. 

Neither Ohmed the same as the new ones and one had a bulge on the magnet face. Interesting that the 2 new parts and one of the old ones had a bulge. other then that did the 4th. one look the same. Just really hope there is not something different about that one in regards to signal output. When you got the new part(s) from Cummins they both had the same number. 

Been thinking from your first thought regarding there location it would not be to bad a job. Had the bottom metal seal replaced on my compressor, because it was leaking. Glad the shop I contacted had them in stock, but never had to pull the compressor and power steering stack. If the sensors are located in the same place on my series engine. It will be just about as tight an I know that I do not have a 2 in. open end wrench in the toolbox. Does your setup have a filter in the hydraulic system? wonder if you might just want to change it.

Good job. They do not make it easy to work on the engines once the coach is built.

Rich.

[jleamont]

It was "one of those jobs". Both of the new ones matched identically to the old sensors, you could tell once upon a time all 4 would have been identical. The bulge on the face of the one old sensor looked like the plastic was starting to fail, the magnet inside was corroding or moisture got up behind it. The entire time I was saying in my mind "Should have bought a Super C, darn DW" . I changed the stack of hydraulic filters last year and the fluid, not sure what the maintenance interval is on those. I was surprised the gasket on the compressor was metal with a neoprene skin on it. Every time I have ever pulled a compressor they were paper, I guess its been that long, .

I did locate a few harnesses that were chaffing, and my A/C hoses were chaffing on the corner of the block as well at the front cover by the CAPS pump. I was able to reroute the harness after unwrapping it, inspecting it, and replacing the loom, adding loom to the A/C hoses and zip tied those out of the way. And of course I found a wire with 12v on it that someone installed that was cut just hanging in the bundle with no loom thrown back there laying up against the frame rail....just an accident waiting to happen. I have to trace that one back and remove it from its source.

 

[jleamont]

It's fixed! Filled the hydraulic tank, started it up, light went out on its own. I scanned it, cleared the code, ran it for 45 minutes, rescanned it no pending codes. Rechecked my work and put my tools away. 

Today is a good day despite the weather!

thanks for the help Rich!

[wolfe10]

EXCELLENT.

Good job in diagnosing and repairing. 

[jleamont]

Thanks Brett! I will say after crawling around back there I see some things that will need attention in the future. Both hard lines on top of the compressor looked rough. I have to pull the floor and see where they go. I now see what has to be done to access items back there, no fun! 

[wolfe10]

I feel your pain!

I am in the middle of replacing/upgrading 4 hydraulic lines to the rear slide on our coach.  A LOT of "under the coach" time.  Bad news-- showers using dawn!

Good news-- upgraded the whole system.

[jleamont]

Wow, yea you get it! Are they cracking? I actually thought about doing that just as a precaution. My main hose from the pump to the tank is too long and has a slight kink in it. I was suprised it was still very flexible for its age. I repositioned the fittings to remove most of the kink. I did replace all of the fuel lines 2 yrs ago after the last debacle. 

Too bad we are not closer, I would love to see how that goes. My hair last night was matted to my head from the dripping. The things we get ourselves into! 

Good luck, when it gets too frustrating walk away. The one take away from my fuel lines, route them better than the factory, mine were chaffed all over the place and laying on components that get hot from the factory.

[wildebill308]

Glad you got it done. Just think you could have taken it to someone (like Camping World) would have cost $5000 and leaked when you got it back. You saved enough to take your wife out to dinner any where she wants to go. Call it an early Mother's day.

Bill

[jleamont]

Bill, her birthday is Friday on top of Mother's Day. I'm sure she will guilt me into something 

[wildebill308]

2 minutes ago, jleamont said:

Bill, her birthday is Friday on top of Mother's Day. I'm sure she will guilt me into something 

Have you orderd flowers yet???

Bill

[wildebill308]

You get at least two great meals out.

Bill

[jleamont]

Yup, Happy wife happy life! I planned this well, or so I tell myself.. Our anniversary is Valentine's Day, I kill two birds with one stone twice a year, 

[wildebill308]

And your anniversary is hard to forget.

Bill

[jleamont]

Just now, WILDEBILL308 said:

And your anniversary is hard to forget.

Bill

Yup, Halmark reminds me every year. Lol