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Everything posted by tbutler
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Welcome Ductedfan, No one wants rate increases. Even at $10 per month, I suspect you'll find it a hard price to beat. Our service is one of the least expensive and it costs $125 per year plus a fee of $1.00 for each mailing. When we signed up it was $100 per year and the fee for each mailing was $0.50. Of course we have to pay the actual cost of the postage and any packaging for each mailing as well. The fact is that not all FMCA members use the mailing service so in effect all dues paying members of FMCA were contributing with their dues to pay the cost (or later, part of the cost) of the mailing service for you. Faced with increasing costs, the choices were likely raise the fees for those who use the service or raise dues for all members. Dues have already been raised several times during our membership so there is pressure to keep the dues from going higher. I would guess that the new fees probably reflect the actual cost of providing the mailing service for those members who use it. It still looks like a pretty good deal to me.
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Montie, Sixty days is better than those who take a week or two for a cruise to Alaska! You'll never see everything there but you can get a good swipe at it. From Tennessee to California (California is several summers at least by itself) and on to the Canadian border I would suggest rapid travel. You can visit these places at another time. I'd focus your trip on the most distant places that are the hardest and most costly to get to. The must have book for going to Alaska is the Milepost. It is available at CW and on-line from a number of sources. It will detail what to see along the road through Canada and Alaska. It covers all the side routes as well as the Alaska Highway. It does an excellent job of identifying places you'll need like fuel, groceries, etc. It lists museums and other attractions so you can choose what you want to see. As the title suggests, this is done on a mile by mile basis. It also has excellent advice for border crossing and regulations in Canada that will help you plan your trip. The Milepost is updated each year so be sure to get the 2010 issue. We spent over 3 weeks traveling through British Columbia on the way north and a week there on the return. We really enjoyed Vancouver Island but you may not want to take the ferry there. We had friends there to visit and they guided us to the best places to see. You could take your toad over on the ferry for a day or three just to see the capital, the Provincial Museum, Buchart Gardens, and more. We took the Sea to Sky Highway from Vancouver north to Cache Creek and Highway 97. This goes through some spectacular scenery including where the winter Olympics will be held in January 2010. Highway 97 takes you to Dawson Creek which is Mile 0 of the Alaska Highway. There is a great museum there that details the building of the highway that is a must before you go. It puts the trip in real perspective. We traveled north to Dawson City in Yukon. From there we drove the toad north on the gravel road 460 miles to Inuvik, NWT. We went there to see the midnight sun. We took the Windsor over the Top of the World "highway" to Chicken Alaska and from there on to Fairbanks. From Fairbanks the motor home made the circle down to Danali, Anchorage, on to Copper River and Tok. We spent a week in the Kenai Peninsula visiting Homer, Seward and Whittier. We only took the Windsor to Seward, the remainder were trips with the toad out of a campground nearer the center of the Kenai Peninsula. We spent two weeks in Fairbanks and two weeks in Anchorage. In each case we had friends to visit that made the visit extra special. In Fairbanks we spent a weekend at our friends hunting cabin about 45 minutes by river from the nearest road. There we had moose wandering right by the cabin each evening. I got some great moose pictures! We also flew from Fairbanks to Barrow and had a fantastic flight and tour. In Anchorage our friends took us to their island in a lake and we spent a lazy Sunday afternoon with them at their cabin on their own island. We visited the museum of art and hiked Earthquake Park, both worth the time. We took side trips to Valdez (great waterfalls along the road), both roads into Wrangell-St. Elias National Park and Skagway. In Wrangell-St.Elias we drove to McCarthy and took the shuttle to Kennicott and stayed at the lodge for two nights. On our return trip we drove the Cassiar Highway to Stewart, BC and Hydar, AK where we had our best bear encounters. Watching the bears catching salmon (late August) was spectacular. We were 20 feet from bears crunching into salmon! We also visited Prince Rupert on the BC Coast on our return. We finished by returning to the US on Highway 1 along the Frasier River. We left the US on Memorial Day and returned just before Labor Day. I'd recommend any and all of these places to go and so many things to see that I couldn't begin to name all of them. If you have to do this in 60 days, you'll see a lifetime of fantastic oohs and aahs. There are always road repairs which are dirt/gravel wet down with calcium chloride (YUK!), sometimes these will be ten or more miles in length. Travel slow and wash often. We found almost all campgrounds offered some kind of RV wash. I washed the Windsor nearly every time we moved from one place to another and I came to call the rain my spot free rinse! Once you get north of Whitehorse, you'll begin to notice dips in the road caused by the freeze/thaw cycles of the permafrost. In our motor home we found 40 to 45 to be about the right speed to travel. It allowed us to slow down as we approached a dip and come through it without a big bounce. The first campground we stopped at north of Whitehorse (Dawson City), everyone, fifth wheels and motor homes, were talking about the "closet dumpers" which is what we called the dips in the road. Every item on hangers in the closet was on the floor because it took us two or three of these to get the idea we were going to see lots of them and we'd have to drive slower. The Top of the World Highway from Dawson City, YT to Chicken, AK was mostly gravel in Canada and all gravel in the US. It was also narrow but I managed to get by a tour bus going the opposite way (and the woman driving wasn't giving me any break - she was on the edge of the hill). Also the Cassiar highway had several 20 mile stretches of gravel. Those were the only real gravel roads we took the motor home on other than the road repair sections. We did all this the summer of 2006 so conditions will have changed by now and you may or may not see less gravel. We are planning to put the Windsor on the ferry for the inside passage so we can visit some of the places that are accessible only by water and then returning on land but that is another trip sometime in our future.
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Most state and national park volunteers receive a free campsite which reduces costs so it could be thought of as workcamping in that the free campsite is a form of compensation. If you pay for your own site while working at a state park then it would be volunteering.
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Too Many Religious Items In Chapters
tbutler replied to TomandMark's topic in Chapters, Chapter Rallies
Tom and Mark, This is one of those thorny issues... First, I would point out that this is not a government agency or branch of government. The freedom of religion issue in the courts is a matter of government not choosing one side or another. It came out of the history of the split in the Catholic church which had Christians persecuting Christians throughout Europe. Some fled to this country seeking freedom to practice their religion without the influence of a government dictating their religion or persecuting them for their religion. They devised a system of government in which the government was to remain neutral in regard to religion. That means that any government agency was not to pick, choose or encourage any particular religion. It is the thing that has held our government together for so many years. Theocracies inevitably self destruct as one religion attempts to control another. Iraq would be a prime example of the problems of a theocracy. We have done our best to try to establish our kind of government but they still choose up sides based on religion. Now, FMCA is not a government agency. FMCA is a private and social organization. As such, the freedom of religion issue is not applicable. Having said that, I carefully examined the FMCA documentation available on the web before I joined. I wanted to be sure that the Family in FMCA was not a code word for a right wing religious organization. The word family had been co-opted by the religious right at the time. On the official level, I continue to see no religious expressions which indicates a desire to appeal to a broad section of society. However, on the chapter level, there are groups which are clearly religious. I can't remember the exact name but I saw a coach at Bowling Green last year that had a chapter sign that indicated Christians ... something. I think that is fine. A group with similar interests have assembled and formed a chapter. Their name clearly indicates their religious nature and that is that. Those who want to join know exactly what they are getting into. I joined a chapter several years ago and shortly after received a religious mailing. I sent them notice to cancel my membership immediately. There was nothing in their name to indicate their religious nature so I assumed this was an open organization willing to accept all individuals. That may be true but their religious response to my membership cost them my membership and participation. I attended a program and meeting of FMCA at the Redmond National Convention and sat through a thoroughly disturbing diatribe about religion in the guise of a Red Skeleton performance (recorded). I sincerely hope that FMCA as an organization does not endorse any religion and I haven't see signs that it officially does. There will always be those who feel they have found THE right answer and will try to impose their right answer on everyone else. When someone uses the podium at a FMCA Convention to promote religion, it is their personal expression, not an official position of FMCA as far as I can tell. If a chapter posts religious information on their web site, then they are in essence saying to everyone, you're not welcome unless you believe what we do. If that is what they want to do, so be it. I'm sure they'll find plenty of people who believe what they do. If they don't, their membership will dwindle and they will either drop their position or fold up their tent. As an individual member then our challenge is to find a chapter that is tolerant of various viewpoints and will connect with other people on issues other than religion. Sometimes the best we can do is to find an organization that at least isn't in our faces about religious issues. There will always be someone in a group that feels there must be a prayer before a meal. When it goes beyond that, we can argue/object or move on. -
Are the vanity lights incandescent or fluorescent lights? Florescent lights sometimes do strange things if the voltage is low which could be caused by insufficient wire size or weak connections, the batteries could be fine but getting the electricity from the batteries to the lights could be your problem. It is possible that when you reset the inverter that drops its draw on the batteries enough to allow the voltage to "start" the fluorescent lights. Incandescent lights are not subject to these problems. Most lights in motor homes are 12VDC, not 120VAC. Resetting the inverter suggests that your lights might be 120VAC though I would be surprised at that. When the inverter is turned off (unplug shore power) do your lights work? If they do, they are 12VDC from the battery and the inverter would not be in that circuit. If the lights are AC and don't operate unless the inverter is turned on, then it makes sense that resetting the inverter would restore the lights. That would suggest a breaker in the inverter is tripping due to a short somewhere in the vanity lighting. If this were the case then I would expect that one of the usual two AC circuits coming from the inverter are lost and lots of lights and/or equipment would not operate. If the lights are incandescent one suspect could be a faulty switch which is shorting out as it goes from off to on. This could be tripping a breaker somewhere which is reset by resetting the inverter. Once the switch is on, the lights may come on and stay on. When you say all the lights go off are you referring to all the lights in the motor home or all the lights on the bathroom vanity? A little more information should help us diagnose the problem.
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New Sember, Sharing Photos Of My RV Mods
tbutler replied to ripsnort60@comcast.net's topic in Modifications
Quite impressive. It looks better than new! Like Wayne, I don't have the experience to even think of tackling something like this project. I'm up to simple woodwork but the fancy stuff I'll leave to others. Your article is a fine how-to example for someone who wants to fix their motorhome. I really enjoyed looking at all this work. Thanks. -
As a general guide, 6 batteries of the normal 6v deep cycle (golf cart batteries) should be enough to power the refrigerator for several hours which will give your generator some rest. How long they will power the inverter to run the refrigerator depends on the amount of power needed and percent of time the compressor runs as Brett mentions. You can lengthen this time by making sure that you have everything in the refrigerator at a cold temperature before traveling. Don't stop at the grocery store after leaving the campground and put a bunch of warm things in the refrigerator or freezer to chill, that will make it run more often and use more power. If you want to stop at the grocery before reaching your next campground make that a stop just before you arrive at the campground and plug in. If you find that 6 batteries aren't enough, you could add several more if you have room for them. Most people who are converting to household refrigerators are finding that six batteries work well in most cases. P.S. I assume that your coach has an inverter. If it does, it must be of sufficient capacity to power a refrigerator. Find the model of your inverter if you have one and then compare its capacity to the power needed by your refrigerator. We recently replaced our old inverter with one with greater capacity in anticipation of replacing our refrigerator with a household model in the future. If you don't have an inverter or it is small capacity and unable to power the refrigerator, you will find replacing it to be an expensive proposition. In that case you might try this suggestion... Household refrigerators are well insulated and leaving it off for several hours shouldn't damage the food inside or allow any frozen goods to thaw (try not to open it unless you absolutely have to). You could set the temperature to maximum cold the night before you leave home or an RV Park. In the morning when you unplug from shore power, simply turn the refrigerator off and leave it off for several hours before running the generator. You might put a remote reading thermometer in the refrigerator so you could monitor the temperature. When it starts to get too warm, run the generator long enough to cool it down and then shut off the refrigerator and let the generator rest for a while.
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If this is actually an exhaust residue, you could try a petroleum based cleaner. Use a tar remover sprayed on a cloth and try that on the glass only. Avoid contacting the rubber seals along the edges of the glass. If this works, simply take your time to clear the glass. Our generator exhaust is below the drivers side window. I have over 700 hours on the generator and have never had a problem with the drivers side window. We use the generator when parked and when driving. I am wondering if the film is actually a fog between the two layers of glass in a thermal window. The drivers side windows are frequently the first to show the broken seal between the two layers of glass. Once this seal breaks, the interior of the two glass layers fog with moisture. No amount of cleaning the outside of the glass will resolve the situation. The only answer here is to replace the window. There was an earlier discussion along these lines, see Replacing Windows.
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From the album: Big Trees - Sequoias and Redwoods
The main entrance road to Sequoia National Park goes under Tunnel Rock. Anything taller than the average Class B wouldn't fit. The road runs along a tumbling mountain stream and there are many places to stop and view the stream.© © Tom Butler
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From the album: Big Trees - Sequoias and Redwoods
It is difficult to find a place where you can stand far enough away from a Sequoia to get the whole tree in the picture. When you get that far away it is difficult to find something to provide a sense of scale. Look at some of the other pictures to get a sense of the size. These trees are monsters, some as tall as a 25 story building and their branches can be more than six feet in diameter. How many trees have you seen that have a trunk diameter greater than six feet? I wouldn't want to be around when a branch falls, much less a whole tree!© © Tom Butler
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From the album: Big Trees - Sequoias and Redwoods
As far as the eye can see in this photograph there is sequoia log. As you can see, it fractured when it fell. This kept the largest of these trees from being logged.© © Tom Butler
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From the album: Big Trees - Sequoias and Redwoods
This is the view from atop Moro Rock. The climb is on stairs that weave their way through and along the sides of this granite outcrop. The climb was well worth the effort!© © Tom Butler
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From the album: Big Trees - Sequoias and Redwoods
Louise stands on one of the wider sections of stairs leading to the top of Moro Rock. Moro Rock is one of the attractions in Sequoia National Park.© © Tom Butler
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From the album: Big Trees - Sequoias and Redwoods
Here at the Giant Trees Museum in Sequoia NP you can get some idea of the scale of these trees. Compare the building to the tree standing in front of it. The museum is a great place to start. It has information on the life cycle of the sequoia trees. Fire is not their enemy. In fact, their seeds won't be released from their cones until the heat of a fire causes them to open. Fire clears the forest floor to allow light for the sequoias to sprout and flourish.© © Tom Butler
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From the album: Big Trees - Sequoias and Redwoods
The General Sherman Tree is one of the largest of these giants. That is Tom standing in front of the tree. The young lady is another tourist. I decided not to cut her out of the picture since it would have cut out quite a bit of the tree.© © Tom Butler
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From the album: Big Trees - Sequoias and Redwoods
Fire has scarred this sequoia tree but the damage doesn't stop the tree from growing. The scar will last forever but the tree lives on. As mentioned previously, fire is necessary for the survival of the sequoias.© © Tom Butler
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From the album: Big Trees - Sequoias and Redwoods
When a tree falls in the forest... When a tree falls across the road, cut enough away to allow cars to pass beneath. In the past there were sequoias that they would allow you to drive your car (They were Model T's) up onto the fallen trunk. The National Park System is a little more restrained now.© © Tom Butler
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From the album: Big Trees - Sequoias and Redwoods
Look carefully and you will see Louise standing next to an interpretive sign about this sequoia tree. This is another photo for scale.© © Tom Butler
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From the album: Big Trees - Sequoias and Redwoods
Tom standing in front of the root ball of a sequoia tree.© © Tom Butler
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From the album: Big Trees - Sequoias and Redwoods
This group of sequoias has been dubbed the Senate. A group of sequoias growing close together like this is formed from the roots of a tree that died. All are about the same age and size. Their roots will be intertwined which makes them very resistant to being blown over even though they are so extremely tall. This group is found along the Congress Trail in Sequoia National Park.© © Tom Butler
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Our Favorite Places - Among the Giant Trees
tbutler posted a blog entry in Tom and Louise on Tour in North America
The giant sequoias and redwoods of California are trees without parallel. To walk in a forest of such magnificent size is a privilege that few people in the world have. There is no way to read about the sequoias and redwoods and truly appreciate them. Our base camp was at Visalia, CA. We hiked numerous trails in Sequoia National Park. To see trees partially burned out and still standing tall and strong was amazing. Realizing that the branches of these trees are the size of the trunks of what we would consider huge trees is also amazing. It is no wonder that loggers looked at these trees and immediately thought about the tremendous amount of wood they would provide. Unfortunately or fortunately perhaps, there is no way to fell one of these trees and get useful lumber from them. Walking up to a log in the forest provides another way to drink in the majesty of these giants. After admiring the General Sherman and Grant Trees, we hiked the Congress trail at a leisurely pace, learning more about the sequoias as we walked around and through them. The Congress Group is an impressive assemblage of giant sequoias. These trees reinforce each other through interlocking and sometimes shared roots. The Big Trees Loop Trail is a shorter trail among some very large trees. Finally one of the most spectacular view points in the park is at Moro Rock. There are rails all along the way for safety. The steep climb up stairs and ramps is not for the feint of heart. It leads to a windy spot atop a narrow bare rock. From there the view is shear rock faces and deep valleys. You get a real top-of-the-world feeling from that point. There are bears in Sequoia National Park, we saw one that retreated across the road ahead of us. We saw a few deer but wildlife is not the high point here. The trees are the stars here. In the Redwoods, we never made it to Redwood National Park but found plenty of redwoods at Humbolt Redwoods State Park and along the Old Redwood Highway. Our campground at Redcrest on the Old Redwood Highway was an excellent point from which to explore the entire Redwood area. We were in fact camped under a redwood tree in a grove of redwoods. We were a short drive from Humbolt Redwoods State Park. The redwoods are the tallest trees, towering over even the sequoias. I rode my bicycle along the old redwood highway in the early mornings feeling both insignificant and the luckiest person on Earth at the same time. We enjoyed a number of trails among the redwoods and learned much about their history and life cycle. We also drove our car through a redwood tree and explored a tree house in a redwood stump. Redwood trees can and are used for lumber so it is only through the efforts of conservationists and preservationists that the old large trees remain. There are small plots of land with redwoods throughout the area. We walked one small plot from one end to the other. Along the way there were interpretative signs. The trail was small and there were no other hikers. The feeling of being alone in a large forest all alone made one feel like a "hobbit," a tiny being in a much larger world. We saw fallen trees with new trees growing from the dead trunks lying horizontal on the ground. We stood beside root balls that were three times our height and walked along the tops of logs well above the forest floor. The scenes were magical in their beauty and we often walked in silence simply admiring the majesty of it all. The sequoias and redwoods are some of the most amazing living wonders of the natural world. -
Welcome Mike and Suzie, There was a query from a US couple looking for travel tips for Australia just a few days ago. See Has Anybody Toured Australia? for that discussion. I wonder if you might entertain exchanging RV's with someone interested in touring Australia? You are coming for the summer and they would be going for the winter but I'm sure some people would be happy with such an arrangement. Lots of us would be interested in touring Australia in an RV. If you decide to purchase an RV here, there are plenty of used RV's on the market right now. With a used RV purchased at a good price, you might be able to recover most of the purchase cost if you can be patient with the eventual sale. Otherwise, there are RV's for rent through several outlets. As to what to see, the list is so massive that no one of us could even scratch the surface. On my must see list would be things like the giant redwood and sequoia trees. The redwoods are north of San Francisco and the sequoias are south west. Both are within a days drive of San Francisco. The volcanoes of the Cascade Range are on to the north through northern California, Oregon and Washington. To the south in California, Nevada, Arizona and New Mexico are deserts. The canyons of Utah, The Grand Canyon, Bryce Canyon, Zion Canyon, and Arches National Parks are all spectacular scenery. You have expressed an interest in art and a web search will connect you with art galleries in many cities. Besides New York, there are excellent galleries in most major US cities. The distance from San Francisco to New York City is approximately 3200 miles. If you decide to make this trip you could go east along a route through the central US or southern part of the country and return through a route in the north or central part of the country. Let us know what your interests are beyond the art galleries and many of us can chip in with suggestions for things to see.
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Given the smaller diesel engine of the front engine diesel motor home, the hydraulic brakes and smaller transmission that Brett mentions, I would be very surprised if such a coach had a higher towing capacity than a rear diesel motor home. Weight in the rear of the motor home is a non-factor when it comes to towing. The tongue weight of any load being towed will be a small fraction of the weight of the towed load. In the case of towing a car, most tow bars place almost zero weight on the coach (half the weight of the tow bar itself). Towing capacity is related to power of the engine; strength of the transmission, the chassis frame and the installed hitch receiver; and the braking ability of the towing vehicle combined with any braking contributed by the towed load. For my money, I'd just as soon have the engine in the rear. Conversation in the cockpit is quite easy. Having the generator in the front is also ideal for sleeping if you have to run the generator during the night (to charge batteries for the furnace, etc.). I find the ride and handling to be very good for a vehicle this size. Large motor homes weigh between 12 and 40 tons, depending on the type. It isn't a sports car. My front tires have more weight per square surface contact inch than my rear tires. One major factor that affects handling in wind is the length of coach that extends beyond the rear axle. This also affects the handling of the coach when large vehicles (tractor trailer trucks) pass. If handling is better with a front engine coach, I would think it would be marginally better. Think of the motor home as a very large heavy lever. The longer the coach extends beyond the rear axle, the longer the lever arm any force will push against. The fulcrum for this is the rear axle and any push on the rear will move the front in the opposite direction as it turns (or twists) around the pivot point, the rear axle. A longer lever arm makes it easier to move the coach since it multiplies the force. This factor also applies to sway caused by the toad if you have one. I feel our coach move occasionally if a large truck moving much faster than me passes. The kind of trucks that produce a large bow wake are not fuel efficient and there are fewer of them on the road today. There aren't that many windy days on the road, even driving in mountains and deserts, we've only had a handful of extreme windy days in eight years on the road. I have never noticed any sway with our coach caused by our toad. There is a recent post dealing with the issue of sway caused by a toad. I don't remember the kind of coach but I suspect it is one that has a large overhang beyond the rear axle. I would consider this a major factor related to handling of any vehicle. I'd look for a rear engine coach which has a short portion of the coach extending beyond the rear axle. Besides renting a coach for an outing, be sure to test drive any coach you are considering purchasing. In addition, test drive as many chassis types of coaches as you can before you purchase one. This will give you a better idea of how each type of coach handles. When test driving a coach, remember that it is likely very lightly loaded with only the fuel needed and no personal gear stowed. Adding weight to the coach will affect the ride, handling and performance. Balancing the load when it is finally added also has a lot to do with ride and handling.
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Albuquerque Balloon Fiesta Park
tbutler replied to sdkiefer's topic in FMCA Albuquerque, New Mexico, 2010
You'll likely get an official answer from someone on the convention committee but here is our experience. This is based on attending a number of FMCA National Conventions. We've never been to the Balloon Fiesta Park in Albuquerque. You won't be in an RV Park as such. At most conventions you will be parked in a large field or parking lot which has no services except for those brought in for the convention. The parking committee will park you in your space next to the coach ahead of you in line with the coach behind you on the other side. If you are arriving with friends you have to be lined up together when you come onto the grounds or you'll be parked in different places. At Bowling Green last year there were several thousand member coaches and those were parked in about a day and a half. As you can imagine, this is a tremendous task so be patient with the parking crew. I've seen crews function smoothly and crews that were getting their first experience with this task. When you get an experienced crew they will have everything running like a top and the process is amazing and fun to watch. These guys are all FMCA members and are volunteers so smile - no matter what happens. When it is all done, you'll be in the middle of a city of 3000 or more people where there was nothing but an open field two days before. It's really an awesome sight. I always get up on our roof to take a picture of the gathering! We've always signed up for electric connections for a convention. The electricity is provided by generators (large mobile units) that power eight to a dozen coaches (my guess) with 30A electric. The generators are fairly quiet but if you are parked next to one, it will be a constant noise through the whole convention. On the other hand if you don't have electric, you'll have people running generators and that can get pretty noxious with everyone running their generator for the air conditioners. In March this may be less a problem than in the summer. We've never had water or sewer at a national convention. Generally you're set up on a fairgrounds that doesn't have those connections. Some places have dump stations available and there is always the honey wagon for emptying tanks. Last year at Bowling Green, OH there were shower units in central areas near coach parking. They were clean and provided a good shower which saved your fresh water and gray water tank space. Generally the coaches are parked in close proximity. You likely will have room to put out an awning but will also be expected to park your car between your coach unless you happen to be in a spot that isn't filled completely. We've had several arrangements like coaches facing each other or coaches facing the back of the line of coaches ahead. In Minneapolis we lucked into parking in the state fair campgrounds. It just happened that we were at the point in the line where they directed us into the campground. We had electric the whole time from a permanent plug-in. The campground showers were just 100 feet from our spot and we had roads to drive on, not grass. We always have our bicycles with us, we're full timers. We enjoy having the bicycles to get around the grounds. It can be quite a distance to walk and there will be shuttles provided in most cases but if you want to travel on your own, a bicycle is an excellent way to go. Generally golf carts aren't permitted for attendees. Staff and volunteers may have golf carts for official activities but the rest of us have to get there by other means. I've seen shuttles that were tractors and wagons and buses from small shuttle buses to school buses. In Bowling Green they had some six passenger golf carts for short distance shuttles where there was no convenient bus road.