Weak 12VDC Power, Unique Issue... Please Help

[BROWNSQUAD]

OK... Hello everyone. we are new to the forum and new to RV living, we are preparing to become full timers. so i am on an intense learning curve as we bought a 1999 Fleet wood Pace Arrow that needed minor work.  so here is the problem that i am having right now.

We have been staying in the MotorHome trying to become accustomed to staying here full time. i was going through the basement vacuuming everything I could reach with the shop vac two Saturdays ago. I had the basement lights on and i went working into the night as I also had a plumbing leak that I had to repair. To my horror the next morning i found that I had left all of the basement lights on. We had not yet been sleeping overnight in the Motorhome.

The batteries were completely dead. i could not get the gen set to start but was able to start the motor and was able to eventually get a charge on the batteries by connecting a shoreline and was able to operate everything eventually.

The problem started here... when I started the engine at idle the RPM's pulsed. This had never happened before and i have had the motorhome around two weeks at this point. it has been doing it ever since just not as bad. when they pulse at idle it is a steady up and down pulse.

Another thing that has changed and I have noticed a difference in is that the lights have started to surge at times and I hear the converter under the refrigerator make surging noises.

Today I drove the motor home around 100 miles and when i got back home to park and level I found that i could not get the hydraulic jacks to level the motor home. two would touch and then the hydraulic motor sounded like the motor would just loose power. This was with the engine running. I shut down the engine and connected shore power and turned the key on and the hydraulic levelers had full power and worked like a dream.

Another issue that I found out was that the gen set would not power anything. I tried the generator before hooking up the shoreline because i thought that it might be a voltage issue. So now I am here in the motorhome and I notice that the lights are just not as bright as they normally are and i am just like " what in the world did i do to our motorhome". 

With all of that said I hope it makes sense what I am trying to convey. I am trying to get everything ready in the motorhome so I can move back to the west from the east. having a hard enough time getting rid of everything in the house let alone now having problems with my motorhome. I hope your knowledge and experience can help me in my predicament. I don't know if it is my batteries or the converter or both.

Oh, just as a side note because it might be relevant. we had been getting a rotten egg smell in the motor home that was intermittent. and we were noticing a really strong smell at the front passenger side of the engine compartment as we would walk by it. I checked tonight and noticed that the chassis battery is located here.. could this be related as well.

Thank you so much for your help and advise in advance. I'm trying to learn as much as I can as fast as I can and to be honest the electrical is seeming to be the hardest as it seems to be so foreign to residential electrical.

 

BrownSquad

[dickandlois]

BrownSquad, Welcome to the FMCA Forum!

How old are the coach batteries and the chassis batteries? It might be time to replace them.

First - Do you have a meter to measure AC and DC voltage? You need to check the coach batteries voltage levels with the coach not running and disconnected from shore power and the generator not running. Also check the water level of the batteries and use only distilled water if they need water.

What is the voltage reading of the coach and chassis batteries with the engine not running and with the engine running?

What are the voltage readings when connected to shore power and the battery charger charging?

You mentioned the engine was surging at idle, how did it run when on the road?

The leveling issue when the engine is running could indicate an alternator issue and also check all the engine Belts are good and adjusted properly.

 We had been getting a rotten egg smell in the motor home that was intermittent. That could be from the refrigerator cooling system failing !

Rich.

[wolfe10]

BrownSquad,

Yes, welcome to the FMCA Forum.

Sounds like several, perhaps unrelated issues.  Agree with Rich, start with the batteries-- they are focal to several of your problems. A bad cell can cause many of the issues you describe.

As far as generator not powering the 120 VAC system in the coach, start by turning OFF and back ON the breakers on the generator itself.  If that does not do it, you need to determine if you have an ATS (Automatic Transfer Switch) or whether you have to manually unplug shore power and plug in generator power. If you are not comfortable and SAFE working around 120/240 VAC, please have a qualified technician help if you have to dig further into the ATS.

[BROWNSQUAD]

I will work with the batteries this weekend. Work is keeping me from being able to work on it through the week. I think the batteries are not that old. The previous owner told me that they went dead on her when she was camping in South Carolina. I thought that she said less than two years old. I will also check the belts on the engine and do a voltage test on the alternator. I'm assuming here but I wouldn't think that it wouldn't be any different than doing a voltage test on my truck or car.

We have a gas motorhome that is 30 AMP service. When we are driving the engine seems to run fine unless I come to a stop sign or light then the idle can surge as well sometimes. Just a note that might be relevant. the night that the batteries died I had a hard time staring the engine. When it did start is was really rough at idle and did not want to stay started. I had to keep giving it gas to keep it running and the surging has been there ever since. I just don't understand how it could be related to the batteries running dead. but it did not do that until the batteries ran down. I'm really hoping that my fridge isn't going. I have enough stuff that is needing replacing without that going bad too. i'm getting a crash course in repair already.

wolfe. I'm going to start with the batteries this weekend and let you and dickandlois know what the results are.

I do believe that we have an automatic transfer switch. It is located in the compartment behind the breakers. I had to repair the shore line when I got the motorhome to the house before I could plug it in. It was not a pretty picture or safe at all. So while repairing that i was tracing wires to see how hard it would be to pull a new wire for the shore plug. This is when I realized that i have a lot to learn about motorhome electrical wiring and how different it is from house wiring. I am comfortable working with wiring it is just a new world to learn how it all works together and in what order. I will try the breaker for the generator to see if that helps on that issue.

Thank you for replying so quickly.

I will relay what the voltages are in what settings. could you let me know what they should be reading? thank you for all of your help.

Joshua

[manholt]

Joshua.  Surging gas engine?  Sounds to me that it's starved for gas...change the fuel filter and check for any restrictions in fuel line also leaks.

Voltage on batteries, 12.5.  You also, should have a Converter in coach, mine was a 55A and hidden under sink...on a 1997 Allegro 30' gasser, 30A.

Carl

[BROWNSQUAD]

OK.

So, I am so sorry that it took me so long to reply back but it has been some kind of busy. Trying to manage two households with maintenance on both has been really hard. So here is what I found out. I was kind of thinking this but was hoping that this was not the problem.

I check the voltage on the batteries and they were coming up fine... however... I checked the water level on the batteries and found that both of them were almost completely dry. I put just short of  2 gallons in two 6 volt batteries. the problems seemed to have gotten better but then I check the batteries a week later and found them low again. The batteries had been getting really hot. So what I was hoping to not be the problem turned out to be a problem... my converter.

It seemed that I thought i had a four stage charger but when I looked further into it that Ii found out that there is a separate part that plugged into my converter that actually monitored the charge and make it have four stages. Mine did not have this so it turns out that it was not fully charging the batteries and also always putting juice in them which was causing them to boil out. anyway....

I replaced the converter with a 55 amp Go Power converter. All seems to be working well now. I did have the batteries and the alternator checked and they said that they are showing to be good.

My wife still says she smells a minor gas smell when the furnace is on. I checked them today and they seem to be working OK but we haven't smelled the bad rotten egg smell that we had been smelling.

I have to do some research on my water heater because it is not burning consistently, that is one thing I found today. I don't think that it is heating efficiently anymore. I'm going to look on here next to see what i can find.

Thank you so much for your advice and help. I'm really glad there is a community here for motor homes.

[wolfe10]

Thanks for the update.

Once batteries have been run that low on water, it is HIGHLY unlikely that they are still good.

With the smart converter, might be a good time to replace those abused batteries.

[BillAdams]

It is highly likely that the batteries are shot as well.  Running a wet cell battery dry can kill it quickly and there is no recovery option.  I would take the batteries out and have them load tested by a reputable company.  Don't be surprised if they tell you they need to be replaced.  If it were me (and it's not!) and the batteries needed replacement I would get a maintenance free battery with AGM being my ultimate choice.

[dickandlois]

Joshua, The fact that you where smelling Sulfur fumes(rotten eggs) and they are now gone means there is a high probability any and all the batteries are not in good condition.

A second indication of weak batteries is that when you tried to level coach, as soon as there was a high current demand on the batteries the jack system hydraulic pump stopped.

The results regarding the alternator sound good. Now you need to see if the Original Charger is working. It should read 12.5 to 14 volts depending on the voltage level before turning on the charger. If you have purchased a volt meter, if that is the case use it the check and see if there is any AC voltage reading on the 12 volt supply. AC in the charge circuit can cause the batteries to boil off water and that could explain the large loose of water from the batteries.

Rich.  

[BROWNSQUAD]

I'm currently looking for new house batteries for our Arrow. However finding replacement batteries is not seeming to be that easy. Camping World seems to only have 12 volt batteries. so how do I know what to get? I want to make sure I get the right batteries and possible upgrade the batteries that I currently have.

Does anyone have any links that they know of that they can recommend so I can do my research and choose the right ones? Also where is the best place to by 6 volt batteries? Any links to other threads on this will be very welcome. We are looking at two to three weeks out to moving out of our home completely and full timing our way across the county. Like i said earlier, this has been a vast learning curve. Ready to get on road soon. getting cold in Virginia, insulated the bypass lines for the water heater last night and i currently have a heat lamp down there now. ready to get out west again.

Thank you for everyone's help so far.

[wolfe10]

6 VDC deep cycle batteries are widely available.  Walmart, Sams, Cosco, etc all carry them. Interstate and others have good specs on their websites.

As far as upgrading, much of that depends on the room you have to install them.

[abyrd]

Sam's Club and Costco have 6 volt batteries

 

Jim

[manholt]

I got mine from NAPA, used to be Western Auto.  My 2, 12V engine batteries are also AGM, got them from Interstate.

Carl

[blakeloke]

Brownsquad,

I agree with above posts regarding where to purchase batteries.  I'd be suspect buying them from Camping World as I just don't think they have a high enough turnover to keep fresh batteries on the shelf.  Our house and chassis batteries are from Sam's Club.

Blake

[john_harris]

Rotten egg smell is off gases from the batteries boiling off during charging. 

[obedb]

Sam's Club used to have AGM 12 volt batteries. 

[manholt]

Byron.  I guess they still do.  At the time I changed out my starter batteries, I was in Eugene, OR.  The best deal was Interstate and no Sam's within 300  miles.  That was August 20014 and they have served me well.

Carl

[BROWNSQUAD]

Looking to replace the batteries within the next week. I do have a questions.

My electric bill at the house has gone up considerably since I have had the shore line connected. The only reason I can think of why is that the batteries are constantly charging.

Does anyone have any ideas?

[wolfe10]

No, you should be using very little 120 VAC for battery charging.  Once batteries are charged (assuming they batteries ARE good) we are talking about 1-2 amps of shore power.

Sure, if running lots of 12 VDC stuff like propane heater, power use will be up.

Are you running anything on 120 VAC-- water heater, space heaters, etc.  Those CAN use a lot of shore power.

[dickandlois]

I have to agree with Brett regarding the power load charging the batteries. Batteries charge current once they reach the float point is 1 to 2 amps of 120 Ac. That is equal to around 50 watts of 120 power to maintain battery charge, like a 55 watt light bulb being on 24 / 7. When a battery cell (if you have wet cell batteries) drops below the top of the plate(s) the current load will continually increase as the cells sulfate and cause shorts inside the cells.

So maintaining the proper water level (using distilled water) is necessary, because of the higher evaporation rate in colder weather. Think of it as steam coming off a pond or stream of open water, as it gets colder.

One item that draws around 400 to 500 watts is the refrigerator running on 120 volts. 

Rich.

[BROWNSQUAD]

I have an electric space heater that I have been using since it has gotten colder. The house batteries do need to be replaced. They  show good on the monitor panel but they keep boiling out. I'm trying to decide on the brand and if I should go with a glass mat or not. I just noticed that it seems the converter fan comes on quite a bit. Other wise something is making my electric bill go up and it seemed like the batteries may be the culprit.

[dickandlois]

The size of the space heater and the setting of the temperature will add quickly to to electric bill. A 1500 watt electric heater will draw around 12 to 13 amps when running, a setting of 750 watts will cut the consumption in half. It might be cooler inside but still above freezing. 

Question, is your coach equipped with a winter weather tank heater system on the Black, Gray and potable tank heaters,and is it turned on ? 

Rich.

[wildebill308]

Sometimes the 750 setting isn't enough, depending on how cold it is going to be. I went down to my coach today and made shure my heaters were set up to keep things above freezing. We are expecting the first freeze of the season with temperatures forecast to be in the mid to low 20s. I don't care if my bill goes up as long as nothing freezes.

I also think BROWNSQUAD'S problem is the batteries. drawing more current than normal.

Bill

[abyrd]

The 1500 watt Hester will cost you  15 cents a hour if your electrical rate is 10 cents per kWh.

I expect the heater will run continuously if it is were cold.  Doesn't take long go rack up your electric bill.

 

Jim

[wildebill308]

1 minute ago, abyrd said:

The 1500 watt Hester will cost you  15 cents a hour if your electrical rate is 10 cents per kWh.

I expect the heater will run continuously if it is were cold.  Doesn't take long go rack up your electric bill.

 

Jim

Jim, I have 3, one in the wet bay two in the coach set to come on at 40*. I really not concerned with the cost. If I thought it was going to go below 20* I would leave both furnaces on set on the lowest setting. The good news hear in Texas the cold snap will only last 3 days then it will be back to lowes in the 40's.

Billl