Proposed Change To FMCA's Governance

[hermanmullins]

Sorry Jeff but the same folks you speak of that are not members of a chapter would still get the information the same way they get it now. Through the Magazine or the web site. 

All dues paying members have the same chance to get the information as anyone else. It is their choice as whether to read the information or have someone get the information for them and tell them what is happening. You are not going to change human nature. If those unrepresented folks wanted to get a voice they would get involved. 

FMCA Membership sits at approx. 75,000.  If the figures thrown around that only 30% (22,500) are members of chapters while 70% (52,500) are not chapter members then why with 3 months of Notices in the Magazine and on the website only  a little over 11,000 took the time to vote. Does that show you how folks care about what happens.

The only way to make a change is to get involved. You of all people should know what can happen when you get involved. You did and now there is FMCA Energized.

I will continue to repeat myself, "To Be Involved, Get Involved."

 

Herman

  

[manholt]

"The only ones who can change it are the chapters"!  Wrong again, you or anyone of the 74,000+ members can suggest changes...as per my response above.  Did you read it? 

I totally agree with Brett.  Since your the head of "Under 60 taskforce", then why won't you do it?

[smithy]

3 hours ago, jeff753 said:

Only 12% voted because of the current structure of Goverance.  The current structure provides information to chapters and chapters have rallys with meetings and discuss and vote or empower their representative to vote.  It works well for chapters and doesn't need to change.  

Joe/Jane non chapter member are not fed information the same way.  That is why 90% of the trailer votes came from the same members who put it in the agenda...chapter members.  They are in the loop by design.  They had rallys and sent dozens of ballots in one envelope.  Goverance is geared towards chapters and those that belong to them.  That seems like it will have to change if the trends continue and less and less members belong to chapters and more chapters fold. How many chapters have been created in the last 10 years? How many have folded?  Is the Chapter model still the best method of inclusion?  Why are members not joining and/or creating chapters?  What are the benefits of a chapter compared to a group of friends?  What are the disincentives of a chapter?

Only 271 National Directors voted at the last convention representing their 271 Chapters.   With the average chapter of 40 people that's 10,840 people who's views were represented at the last convention out of 76,000 members.   Only 271 votes (chapters only) were  cast for any business in front of the Association including the election of officers.  Joe/Jane member don't even know who is running.  I'm not anti chapter I think they're great...they just don't represent the membership anymore.   Can we do something to include all dues paying members?  I think we can and should.  The Areas are already broken down by state or sub area so the structure for a more inclusive representation of the Association exist.

it is interesting to note----- the only ones who can change it are the chapters:) <---- another smiley face 

 

Where did you get your 90% of trailer votes came from chapter members? Please refrain from posting guesses as actual fact.

[jeff753]

10 hours ago, Hermanmullins said:

Sorry Jeff but the same folks you speak of that are not members of a chapter would still get the information the same way they get it now. Through the Magazine or the web site. 

All dues paying members have the same chance to get the information as anyone else. It is their choice as whether to read the information or have someone get the information for them and tell them what is happening. You are not going to change human nature. If those unrepresented folks wanted to get a voice they would get involved. 

FMCA Membership sits at approx. 75,000.  If the figures thrown around that only 30% (22,500) are members of chapters while 70% (52,500) are not chapter members then why with 3 months of Notices in the Magazine and on the website only  a little over 11,000 took the time to vote. Does that show you how folks care about what happens.

The only way to make a change is to get involved. You of all people should know what can happen when you get involved. You did and now there is FMCA Energized.

I will continue to repeat myself, "To Be Involved, Get Involved."

 

Herman

  

My point was the FMCA communication structure is geared towards chapters.   There is a department dedicated to Chapter Services.  Chapters have rallys and business meetings to discuss and vote in mass.  Non chapters DO NOT have the "same chance" because they do not get the information fed to them the same way...they would have to find it on FMCA.com or in the magazine.  That's not anyone's fault it's just the current state.

Non Chapter Members cannot vote at business meetings or for candidates in elections and do not have representation for these events.

Now we could do nothing and just say you have to form a chapter and have rallys, meetings, minutes, bylaws etc.  It appears that Model is in severe decline....or we could try to do something to allow all members the same opportunity for information, the same voice and the same vote.  

 

[jeff753]

--A Membership sits at approx. 75,000.  If the figures thrown around that only 30% (22,500) are members of chapters while 70% (52,500) ----are not chapter members then why with 3 months of Notices in the Magazine and on the website only  a little over 11,000 took the time ---to vote. Does that show you how folks care about what happens.

i don't view it as people don't care....I don't think the majority was even aware. If a member typically doesn't read the magazine they would not know.   If a member doesn't attend rallys (only an average of 3% do) they would not know. If a member doesn't log on and review FMCA.com they would not know.  Unless this member was also in a chapter.  One solution would be to design a new structure where all members were treated as if they were in a chapter.  Give them the same info, same voice and same vote.  Why wouldn't we want to do that?  

Is it our responsibility to deliver the information to the membership or is it the members responsibility to try to find it?

It's all about structure and the question of "are we here because of the membership or is the membership here because of us"

Every business or Association I've ever consulted with, that didn't answer this question correctly, either failed or is failing 

[smithy]

4 minutes ago, jeff753 said:

--A Membership sits at approx. 75,000.  If the figures thrown around that only 30% (22,500) are members of chapters while 70% (52,500) ----are not chapter members then why with 3 months of Notices in the Magazine and on the website only  a little over 11,000 took the time ---to vote. Does that show you how folks care about what happens.

i don't view it as people don't care....I don't think the majority was even aware. If a member typically doesn't read the magazine they would not know.   If a member doesn't attend rallys (only an average of 3% do) they would not know. If a member doesn't log on and review FMCA.com they would not know.  Unless this member was also in a chapter.  One solution would be to design a new structure where all members were treated as if they were in a chapter.  Give them the same info, same voice and same vote.  Why wouldn't we want to do that?  

Is it our responsibility to deliver the information to the membership or is it the members responsibility to try to find it?

It's all about structure and the question of "are we here because of the membership or is the membership here because of us"

Every business or Association I've ever consulted with, that didn't answer this question correctly, either failed or is failing 

Jeff,

We had a big bright red box on the front of the magazine saying important member vote inside for three months in a row. We blasted every member with an email record to let them know. It was posted on social media several times. On the forums. Front and center on the website. The top RV websites and blogs picked it up and spoke about it. There was a special presentation in Chandler to let members here about it.

Every member was given the same information that a chapter member was.

How else do you suggest we make members aware about future votes? I can't think of any other possible way.

[redldr1]

7 minutes ago, smithy said:

How else do you suggest we make members aware about future votes? I can't think of any other possible way.

I don't think it is all about making members aware of the issues and upcoming votes.  As you said there was plenty of info, on numerous sources, on the last vote.  But making it easier to vote should see an improvement in the "turn out" rate.  And I suspect implementing e-voting would also be more cost effective for the FMCA as well....

[smithy]

9 minutes ago, RedLdr1 said:

I don't think it is all about making members aware of the issues and upcoming votes.  As you said there was plenty of info, on numerous sources, on the last vote.  But making it easier to vote should see an improvement in the "turn out" rate.  And I suspect implementing e-voting would also be more cost effective for the FMCA as well....

I totally agree with this. And I think the proposal will be made to allow it.

[manholt]

Yes, we do need to upgrade our current vote system, let us remember, that when our current Constitution, By Laws and P & P, where approved and accepted....There was NO PERSONAL COMPUTERS or INTERNET !!!  Al Gore was in HS.

[hermanmullins]

He isn't still there?

Herman 

[jeff753]

13 hours ago, manholt said:

"The only ones who can change it are the chapters"!  Wrong again, you or anyone of the 74,000+ members can suggest changes...as per my response above.  Did you read it? 

I totally agree with Brett.  Since your the head of "Under 60 taskforce", then why won't you do it?

That is, in part, why I brought this up. The vast majority of the U60 group do not belong to chapters and therefore they cannot conduct the business of the association nor vote for National Officers.  This should change. 

[hermanmullins]

Have everyone in the FMCA Energized, at least 20 sign the petition to Form a Chapter, elect a slate of officers inclding a National Director and walla your group not has recognition and a voice. You only need to have one or two Chapter business meetings a year and they be at each National Rally. Since your membership will be from all over it could be in the INTO Area.

Then you would have a VOICE.

Herman 

[manholt]

Herman.  I think the main issue here, is that Jeff want's some one else to volunteer to do it for him, rather than him (Jeff) taking the initiative!  He writes the same things over and over, like a broken record!

Come on Jeff even Penny asked you too "Step up to the PLATE"!

[jeff753]

1 hour ago, manholt said:

Herman.  I think the main issue here, is that Jeff want's some one else to volunteer to do it for him, rather than him (Jeff) taking the initiative!  He writes the same things over and over, like a broken record!

Come on Jeff even Penny asked you too "Step up to the PLATE"!

Brett he needs a warning flag;)

Mr Holt

Since the “electronic voting option” is a different issue than “one membership=one vote” we started a separate thread.

ps we are not your enemy here.  We are trying to help. 

[hayesfamily]

18 hours ago, smithy said:

Where did you get your 90% of trailer votes came from chapter members? Please refrain from posting guesses as actual fact.

So, just curious ... What are the actually numbers? Your stating its a guess and not fact I would like to know what the numbers are and if you dont have them where can I obtain them? 

[hayesfamily]

7 hours ago, Hermanmullins said:

He isn't still there?

Herman 

YES!

[jeff753]

The accounting firm has the yays nays duplicate votes and voided votes.   We have member numbers for chapters yes?

So we have the data and I got a gift card with mr smitty on it that says 90% is spot on;).

It doesn’t matter if it’s 90% or not though. The issue is 30% of the membership has a vote and some have 5 votes while others none.  If that ain’t broken I don’t know what is. 

Regardjess the gift card is yours at Perry for a job well done. It’s your’s Chris because you were not afraid to take the helm 40’ from the iceberg.  Your new teams may very well save the Association.

Let’s spend our energy addressing the issue of 70% of the membership do not belong to a Chapter nor do they get to vote for elections of our Association nor are they represented at Our Annual Conventions.... The rest is in my mirror and I can’t hit it;) 

[lmsooter]

I had the information I needed for the recent vote because I read the magazine, participate in the forum and look at the FMCA website at least daily.  I believe the information for this vote was there for anyone who wanted to read it.

That bring said, I disagree with the philosophy that you must join a chapter to be represented at the Board level.  If only 30% of members are chapter members then the 70% non-chapter members really have no voice in the overall operation of FMCA.

I am also a Life member of the National Rifle Association and all board members are elected by a vote of ALL members.

i am not a member of any chapter of FMCA at this time and really don’t want to be.  Part of the reason for not being involved in a chapter is many have rallies at the same places year after year.  We are members of the Alfa Owners Club and the Alfa Roadrunners chapter.  We do not attend the Owners Club rally for the same reason - always in the same area.  But I am a member of FMCA and should have some representation at the Board level without being required to join another group (chapter).

Sorry about the long post but I needed to express my opinion.  You kinda get the feeling from some of the comments above that you are not a “real” member or asset if you don’t join a chapter.

[manholt]

The numbers I have (Posted by Brett, from Jon Walker) Approx. 74,000 + Members, 9,801 bothered to vote, 6,820 For & 2,981 No!  It is obvious to me that if 30% of membership is Chapter members and the rest not, then this was a dismal effort by all....I don't believe for a minute that had we had, Internet voting, the end result would be different...just a higher number of total votes!

From what I heard,  the Total, increased from 9801, but the result was the same!  I will live with the results for now and see where it leads! 

Don't understand where the idea of "Some have 5 votes and others none"!  One F# = one vote!  5 Votes?  How?

[jeff753]

5 hours ago, manholt said:

 

Don't understand where the idea of "Some have 5 votes and others none"!  One F# = one vote!  5 Votes?  How?

If a dues paying member is in more than one chapter they have one delegate (National Director)  voting for each chapter. These multiple delegates vote  on issues at the annual conventions and vote for national officers.  If a dues paying member is not in a chapter they get no votes. 

[hermanmullins]

Jeff, How many more times are you going to say the same thing. We on the Forum know your thoughts and thoughts and thoughts +++++++

How about letting the member get back to helping those with problem.  

Sorry for getting so blunt. So before we start to get nasty with one another lets close this topic. What say Brett?

 

Herman

[wayne77590]

....and take my entertainment away!  Sheesh!

[manholt]

Well, that's where honesty, integrity and morality comes into play!  I know a lot of members of multiple chapters and they all vote on any issue once!

Herman, I'm with you!  Had enough.

[hermanmullins]

Entertainment? It is akin to the DW harping on you about leaving the toilet seat up. WE GET IT.

Herman 

[manholt]

Wayne.  Sorry, but your entertainment is getting to reparative and seems that Jeff is not paying attn.!