mweiner Report post Posted January 8, 2018 2019.... isn't that far away and it appears that the Mercedes Benz Sprinter will offer a gasoline/electric vehicle model...a hybrid Sprinter..... What do you think?? https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/mercedes-teases-new-sprinter-interior-ev-coming-in-2019/ Reason I ask.... well, we had an experience with a hybrid car climbing through the Eisenhower pass.. 11,000 feet climb through Highway 70... it's a steady climb to the summit and the electric motor ran out... relying only on the gasoline engine.... Yes, we made it over the summit, but, the car struggled to make it..... SO, would you consider a gasoline electric hybrid in an RV??? Mercedes Benz is not saying that the diesel engines won't be available in the Sprinters for the US market? It's tabled the diesel engine in their automobiles..... they are just adding the gasoline engine for sale in the United States... By the way, diesel engine cars and trucks are VERY popular in Europe.. much more than the USA... Then there's the complicated issue on biodiesel... still a developing story .. not sure about the outcome for the millions of Mercedes Benz diesels already here in the United States.... time will tell.... So, your thoughts on a hybrid RV? There's even hybrid big rigs, see below, https://blog.caranddriver.com/volvos-new-concept-semi-truck-points-to-a-future-of-hybrid-big-rigs/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rsbilledwards Report post Posted January 8, 2018 The answer would be not a chance! I would rather have the load being stuff to live with rather than hauling around a bunch of batteries. Same kind of No on the second part of the question, not enough power and can you imagine the cost. Every one of these kinds of units are subsidized, imagine that bill. On the diesel side the Audis and MBs we see here, diesel powered, are several generations old compared to what is available in Europe. Our fuel is dirty by comparison in spite of the refining changes made here over the last decade or so. Their diesel is water clear. The current Audi cars will not run on the fuel we have here. I am willing to bet you do not see the big rigs in the mountains, on the flats and short haul applications sure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manholt Report post Posted January 8, 2018 Volvo=Concept=most end up in file 13, long before a working model is made if it ever is! Wall Mart has been toying with that idea for years now, with their Billions it's still not on the road. I totally agree with Bill E. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mweiner Report post Posted January 8, 2018 44 minutes ago, rsbilledwards said: The answer would be not a chance! I would rather have the load being stuff to live with rather than hauling around a bunch of batteries. Same kind of No on the second part of the question, not enough power and can you imagine the cost. Every one of these kinds of units are subsidized, imagine that bill. On the diesel side the Audis and MBs we see here, diesel powered, are several generations old compared to what is available in Europe. Our fuel is dirty by comparison in spite of the refining changes made here over the last decade or so. Their diesel is water clear. The current Audi cars will not run on the fuel we have here. I am willing to bet you do not see the big rigs in the mountains, on the flats and short haul applications sure. Subsidized? Maybe some vehicles are.. people are concerned about the environment, you know? Enough power... well, I sure hope that the Volvo trucks with the electric motor options have more power resources than my little Toyota Prius had trying to climb to the Eisenhower pass.. probably do... As for big rigs in the mountains...I'd just like to tell you that a few weeks ago I returned from an 11,000 miles journey all across the USA..... went through the Northwest across to the East coast down to Florida and back through Route 66.. Let me tell you... there's plenty of big rig diesels, motorhomes and yes, I even saw some Mercedes Benz Sprinters like mine and Class C Winnebago coaches out there along with plenty of other RVs... Even saw some Audi's..... What evidence do you have that supports that diesel fuel is cleaner in Europe? Here's an article on diesel fuel from the BBC... below.. from 2015.... and a report on biofuels in Europe.... And, I think they have been using biodiesel in Europe... https://ec.europa.eu/energy/en/topics/renewable-energy/biofuels http://www.bbc.com/news/business-33254803 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jleamont Report post Posted January 8, 2018 NO way would I consider it! In the US we currently cannot get the diesel engines right with the new emissions systems that have been around since 2007, while the govt has mandated advancements none of them have been perfected. I would question the resources put into anything hybrid when we cannot get the current diesel engine technology correct. Gasoline are not much better in that aspect for that matter either, while they tend to be more dependable they do not make the power and don't last as long. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manholt Report post Posted January 8, 2018 Then there is Tesla. Very popular in Norway and I can't understand why it's so dependable there, and so troublesome here? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hermanmullins Report post Posted January 8, 2018 Would the difference in the voltage have anything to do with the performance between the two country's? Herman Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mweiner Report post Posted January 8, 2018 6 hours ago, jleamont said: NO way would I consider it! In the US we currently cannot get the diesel engines right with the new emissions systems that have been around since 2007, while the govt has mandated advancements none of them have been perfected. I would question the resources put into anything hybrid when we cannot get the current diesel engine technology correct. Gasoline are not much better in that aspect for that matter either, while they tend to be more dependable they do not make the power and don't last as long. Well, I submit these two articles below for your consideration, http://www.automobilemag.com/news/mercedes-benz-diesel-history/ And this contrasting article... https://www.cheatsheet.com/automobiles/8-cars-that-tell-the-history-of-diesel-in-the-u-s.html/?a=viewall Europe and North America have been on two different tracks for quite awhile. Blue-Tec has made advances in diesel engine technology.... Mercedes Benz doesn't rest on their laurels..... otherwise, they would have never made it this far... An except from the article... "Ironically, Volkswagen and Audi both licensed BlueTec technology from Mercedes, but they opted not to use in on their ’09-’15 2.0 liter TDIs – the cars at the center of their current crisis." Mercedes Benz is NOT part of the VW scandal.... YES, it's possible that they're being investigated... but, I don't think any thing will come out of this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dickandlois Report post Posted January 8, 2018 1 hour ago, manholt said: Then there is Tesla. Very popular in Norway and I can't understand why it's so dependable there, and so troublesome here? Carl, Is there a possibility there are some better drivers in Norway or just wondering over all it tends to be cooler in Norway - Electrical systems like it cooler . Rich. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manholt Report post Posted January 8, 2018 Rich. I think it's (most Norwegians agree) got to do with 220V and temps! The State of Norway, came out with a law in 2015, that all cars inside the Loop in Oslo, (It's a test for the whole country), would be gas/diesel free by 2019....almost all public parking spaces have a charger for the E-cars now and the same with Condos and Hotels. The sad part is that the whole Country did the same thing in regards to Diesel in 2000! So the new test for Oslo is getting rather expensive for the people. The biggest thing that has come about with this change, is the massive increase in the cost of Electricity...who pays for this? Why the average person does, for themselves and the Government Officials! My office building uses less electric today, than 5 years ago...our rate went up 221% January 1, 2018! Welcome to Socialism! Sucks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jleamont Report post Posted January 8, 2018 Mark, what does their history have to do with today's engine quality? https://www.cummins.com/company/history Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jleamont Report post Posted January 8, 2018 Example; My mom had a 1985 300D sedan, great car never had a problem with it. One of my friends has a 2016 GL450 blue tech, that thing spends more time on a wrecker than in his garage. Those articles are written by people that were handed the keys for a short time to drive the product, can you imagine the turmoil if they wrote a bad article..you give me a free car to drive for sometime, I'll tell you what I think of it and the world what you want me to say we have drifted off topic again...would I consider a hybrid, NO. Gas engine MB...maybe but since I don't like cabin fever or hotels that MB gas engine wouldn't be in a coach I'd be interested in...so I wouldn't look that way either. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mweiner Report post Posted January 9, 2018 1 hour ago, jleamont said: Example; My mom had a 1985 300D sedan, great car never had a problem with it. One of my friends has a 2016 GL450 blue tech, that thing spends more time on a wrecker than in his garage. Those articles are written by people that were handed the keys for a short time to drive the product, can you imagine the turmoil if they wrote a bad article..you give me a free car to drive for sometime, I'll tell you what I think of it and the world what you want me to say we have drifted off topic again...would I consider a hybrid, NO. Gas engine MB...maybe but since I don't like cabin fever or hotels that MB gas engine wouldn't be in a coach I'd be interested in...so I wouldn't look that way either. My point is that Mercedes Benz is always pushing the envelope towards technology... Blue Tec is the outgrowth of being environmentally friendly....and they are coming out with a hybrid diesel or hybrid gasoline engine in 2019... Sure, anyone can point to cars from the 80s... they were fine for their time, but, definitely NOT as safe as today.... As per our conversation with the Class B...and this is a Class B discussion...the Sprinters are great for traveling long distances and fuel efficiency.... I've met many people who have Class As and they said that if they were traveling 12,000 miles in a short period of time like the three month trip I just completed, they would have taken their Sprinter..... For the same distance I traveled, it would have been over $5,000 in fuel alone... You can spin that any way you like.... Again, I'm NOT a full timer...if I were.. maybe I'd rather consider a Class A.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rsbilledwards Report post Posted January 9, 2018 MWeiner The question you asked was about hybrid electric and gas in a coach. I commented that it would not be feasible or maybe practical is more reasonable in big rigs.Your next post articulated about your trip, how long it was and about all the diesel rigs about in the mountains. "As for big rigs in the mountains...I'd just like to tell you that a few weeks ago I returned from an 11,000 miles journey all across the USA..... went through the Northwest across to the East coast down to Florida and back through Route 66.." "Let me tell you... there's plenty of big rig diesels, motorhomes and yes, I even saw some Mercedes Benz Sprinters like mine and Class C Winnebago coaches out there along with plenty of other RVs... Even saw some Audi's..... " We were talking about ELECTRIC not big rig current diesels, of coures you will see lots of them it is the current technology and you will see them for a long time to come. In another post your argument shifts to safety. You keep shifting the thread from one point to another away from your original. What gives? My point and the issue is what happened in your PRIUS. Battery/electric will not work in the west's big mountains, others as well. The technology will be used on the flats where vertical climb resistance is lower and the distances are shorter. As for Europe's diesel being cleaner and the older technologies here versus there. I have been in the automotive arena for a long time. I was indirectly party to test work done by Audi through a couple of test/evaluator driver engineers that put corporate test cars through their paces prior to the ,model year releases. There were a lot of very interesting data points that were not common knowledge. Believe me some of the test cars were pretty amazing, shipped back to Germany or just plain crushed to death. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manholt Report post Posted January 9, 2018 I will still use Norway as a point of reference. In cars, the battery/ E system works. But in heavier vehicles it does not. Norway as a whole, is topographically equal to most of Colorado, not much in the way of flat, mostly up or down, lots of curves and hairpins, narrow roads in the towns/cities and rural. 20%+/- two lane express way system! Their infrasystem for moving people by rail/bus is light years ahead of us. intercity rail is Electric, but the "Bullet Train", is a combination of Diesel/Electric with a top speed of 180mph on it's own track system that has grown 20x in length over the past 10 years and continues to grow! Cargo trains are for the most part, like here but only one or two containers lengthwise, per rail car, not stacked as in America, they are also interspersed with passenger cars and driven by Diesel. Intercity and a few rural buses are run on LPG. Rest are Diesel, all tour buses are Diesel, including most Motor Homes and yes, a lot of brands are American, Class A & C. German made Class A & C's, very few Class B's. MB OTR Trucks along with Volvo, are most predominant thru out Europe/Scandinavia, again Diesel and they have the same amount of axels as us, but only one wheel per side, per axel. Since Norway's coast line is over 12,000 miles, it's dotted with inhabited islands and they move people, animals and goods back and forth by ferry...Diesel/Electric/turbine. I would guess that half are Hover Craft, 25% the old drive shaft prop and 25% Jet. Private water craft are gas outboards, about 70% and the rest are inboard, diesel. I will get off my box, now! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kaypsmith Report post Posted January 9, 2018 Doesn't hybrid incorporate a transmission capable of combining both the power from the gas/diesel engine with the power of an electric motor? And if this is the case, then the transmission will be the key factor in how the power is transferred to the drive wheels. If this is the case then about any size motor can be used to power the rig up the hill, and the electric motor can be a helper when more power is needed and can be phased in on the downhill in order to produce electricity to recharge the batteries. In my understanding, hybrid is in no way the same principal as a diesel/electric locomotive. I like the idea of ideas in the arena for trying to achieve a goal of reducing fossil fuel dependence, but not at the expense of forcing it onto every poor sucker that cannot afford the expense of testing it out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jleamont Report post Posted January 9, 2018 19 minutes ago, kaypsmith said: Doesn't hybrid incorporate a transmission capable of combining both the power from the gas/diesel engine with the power of an electric motor YUP! We have a fleet of Hybrid trucks at work for NYC deliveries. Diesel/hybrid, electric motor comes on during acceleration to take stress off of the diesel thus making it more fuel efficient, the diesel also shuts off at stop lights and on deceleration, batteries recharge on deceleration (regenerative braking). The regular version of the truck (non Hybrid) 12MPG Hybrid 14MPG but the chassis is almost 2x the price. If the driver is not careful in his/her driving habits the MPGs will drop below the regular non hybrid unit quickly. Now this only works around town as mentioned above NYC deliveries, put it on the highway it does nothing but suck the diesel down. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manholt Report post Posted January 10, 2018 Kay. I just threw out everything that they use over there. They do realize, that there is a limit, in what you can use Hybrid for...In regards to Locomotives, not much has changed over the years. You still have steam, gas, diesel and AC/DC electric. At one point they considered using nuclear, but threw that out because of the price and what to do with the waste! Sorry for any misunderstanding! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
