Upgrading Suspensions F53 Chassis

[manholt]

OK Brett, what is the CHF?  My feeble mind is a blank also, why not liquid springs?

[manholt]

Mike.  Yours is a Newmar, from what I have heard and read in the last month, they come out of the factory pretty much aligned.  As for a gas coach, I have not heard anything, but would be surprised at a big difference!

[wildebill308]

4 hours ago, manholt said:

OK Brett, what is the CHF?  My feeble mind is a blank also, why not liquid springs?

On the Ford sway bar there are 2 sets of holes in the arms. The CHF all you do is move the bolts to the in board/aft holes, this stiffens the sway bar.

Bill

[manholt]

Thank you Bill.

[ispjs]

On ‎1‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 5:19 PM, mhanley99 said:

Appreciate the responses. Does CAT do wheel-by-wheel weights? Recommend alignment for new coach? Will only have 300 or so miles on it when we pick up in April. Not sure how well alignment is done during manufacture. I will be near top of GCWR with tow vehicle added. So will look at Sumos and Koni KSDs.

Mike, Barb & Buddy (the dog)

IMHO, you can get by with just running it over any truck stop CAT scale to get your individual axle weights.   Maybe later down the road you may want to get more specific and get your 4 corner weights but I wouldn't worry about it for now.  Most truck stops (Flying J, Pilot, Love's....) will only charge $10 or $11 for the weigh, quick and easy.

If you take the coach to a honest alignment shop they will check it and only charge for what they have to do.  In other words, my shop quoted me $145 for an alignment on my new coach recently.  When they got it set up they discovered the alignment was good from factory, but they did need to re-center my steering wheel, final charge only $45.00.  But now I know 100% my loaded coach of aligned perfectly.

Any 36' to 38' coach on a Ford F-53 chassis (loaded for travel) is going to lean from side to side to a certain extent.  Depending on your wheel base length it may lean more or less but it is still running down the road on a spring chassis.  I would take a test run in moderate windy conditions before putting the Sumos on.  If a 20mph cross wind blows you around, or when a semi passes you it is a real adventure, then you will probably be like I was and rush out and get the Sumos.  

I did all my modifications in stages, hoping that I would never have to end up with Sumos.  But IMHO a 2014 Thor Challenger 37GT was impossible to travel cross county in without them.

[mhanley99]

Thanks for the info, ISPJS. Can I get the coach weight done with the Grand Cherokee toad attached or does it need to be done separate?

 

[wolfe10]

35 minutes ago, mhanley99 said:

Thanks for the info, ISPJS. Can I get the coach weight done with the Grand Cherokee toad attached or does it need to be done separate?

 

Likely, but ask the operator of the scale.

[agreber]

Rodesia,

           I have a 2018 Fleetwood Bounder 35K...…………..Here's what I did to solve the poor handling (being blow all over the road by passing semis & winds, cornering leaning, etc.)    I installed (1) Roadmaster Steering Stabilizer (2)  Cheap Handling Fic (CHF)   that is adjusting the front & rear stabilizer factory bars from the front end bar link outside hole to the inside hole. (had to replace the front factory end links with adjustable Hellwig end links.     (3) installed a rear UltraTrac Tack Bar  (4) installed an additional Roadmaster rear anti sway bar....

My shocks were fine since the coach is new...………     The above vastly improved the handling!!!!!!

 

 

[jpstakun]

Whatever you choose to do, have the front end aligned first.  It may cure some problems without spending more money than you need.

[wildebill308]

6 hours ago, jpstakun said:

Whatever you choose to do, have the front end aligned first.  It may cure some problems without spending more money than you need.

Welcome to the forum. I think it is better to do a all wheel alignment. You should be loaded like you are headed out on a trip. The reason is even if the front is correct if the thrust angle on the rear is off it will cause wandering and be harder to drive. 

Bill

[johnstanczak]

I have a 2013 Winn Vista 30T  F53 18,000 # chassis.  I installed a Roadmaster 1139-140 front swayer and their steering stabilizer.  I think it made a modest improvement in sway control but when ever I was at slow speeds turning going over bumps I would hear a knuckling sound coming from the front suspension.  It never did this before installing new parts.  I bought in July of 16, installed these in July of 17.  I checked underneath, nothing was loose or showed signs of movement.  I ran it that way for a while.  I called Roadmaster tech help, talked to a guy who was an installation tech there, now doing support because of health reasons.  He felt it might be the bolts to the end links (up and down links that attach to the frame).  I did not do anything about it at the time...Fast forward to today and I ad called RM support again, the guy told me to go out and try to find bigger bolts.  When I asked why they did not supply them he informed me that the sway bar was redesigned over a year ago, now the kit contained new endlinks shaped differently that solve that problem.  When I asked for the upgraded kit and some adjustment made for the obvious short comings of their original design he told me to go to customer support.  Well you can see where this is going, that they would not do anything about it. Might have well told me I to go sh*t in my hat or something. 

Fortunately I had saved the original swayer and hardware, reinstalled it, quiet as a church mouse. I have written to their president with no response, not holding my breath, but they should make some adjustment.  I sent this to them via email and mail, no response as of today.  With a F%3 you have a truck with a big box on it...When the road is crappy, you have a crappy ride, It seems that nothing short of Liquid Spring setup is really going to make a difference.

With the knuckling sound is the bolts moving in the hole at the end of the sway bar, their is more than an 3/16ths clearance in the mounting hole.  The problem with the knuckling sound is that when I go to sell this thing, the first thing you or I would do is walk away...I have replaced the Goodyear tires with Michelin XZE from FMCA's tire program, I am happy with that.

Have any of you guys encountered this problem or know of someone...

I am certainly not purchasing 800 bucks of another kit from a company that does not stand behind their products...

 

 

Great News Tuesday 8-24-21

The customer service manager James Linnebur emailed me that Roadmaster was sending me the upgraded kit and a return RMA for the old swaybar...Fantastic on their part.  I felt so good about it that I ordered the 1139-146 rear sway bar kit 10 minutes ago.  That is standing behind your product.  They redesigned the kit to include end links as well.

The bar was redesigned in 2020 according to Wayne from Etrailer tech support.  What I found is that Ford used a 12mm shoulder bolt with a relief hole slightly larger that the head of the bolt to get the socket on about 1/8 inch deep or so. RM also used a 12mm hexed grade 8 bolt and the diameter of the shoulder is 0.472", the hole is the RM bar is 0.518" and the movement has enlarge the hole slightly compared to the rear used hole, just like ford (Fords diameter of their hole is 0.478 or so.

I want to stress that I never was in any danger or unsafe condition due to this situation, only an uncountable knuckling noise from the front suspension.  Crawling under the coach nothing was "loose" or no signs of movement on any part.  But when it will come time to upgrade a DP someone will not understand or trust for that matter that something was not seriously wrong.

Kudos for Roadmaster doing the right thing.  I have a steering stabilizer as well.  This fall I will order a track bar and install that too...The Ford f53 chassis is a TRUCK and never will that great of a ride.  Terrible roads in the US and Canada shake the living **** out of our coaches, I have had to have the front cap reglued as it came loose in 15K miles after we bought it in 2016 with 10k on it.  I was hoping to upgrade to a DP but the prices are absolutely nuts right now I will wait until the market goes the other way when it is a buyers market, I can only hope that  I am physically able to keep doing this when that time comes around..

 

Thanks for the feed back, I hope this helps someone.

 

John

 

Oh yes, a shoutout to FMCA, the Michelin program is great, saved me 500 bucks on new tires.

Edited August 24, 2021 by johnstanczak

[moonwink]

All I had to do with my F53 20,500 lb chassis was the CHF (cheap handling fix).  Before I did that, it felt top heavy.  Since doing it, it's rock solid.  I did have to replace the swaybar bushings with polyurethane type because of the additional forces placed on the OEM swaybars after the change. 

I also replaced the stiff Bilstein shocks with the KONI FSD shocks all the way around.  They helped smooth out the ride quite a bit.  Unfortunately, they can't make up for the horrible shape of many of the roads I've traveled where the concrete slabs no longer match (I-65 in Birmingham, AL & I-55 north of West Memphis, AR & I-40 west of Flagstaff, AZ).