GFCI Outlet No Power

[wolfe10]

YES.  One on each bank is great.  Be sure to check that they ARE charging-- again, many smart chargers will not start charging a totally dead battery.  If that is the case, you may need to use a jumper from a good battery such as your tow vehicle to get voltage high enough for the charger to work.

And, once voltage is up some, your inverter/charger MAY start.

[bburns8]

On 8/26/2018 at 11:43 AM, wolfe10 said:

YES.  One on each bank is great.  Be sure to check that they ARE charging-- again, many smart chargers will not start charging a totally dead battery.  If that is the case, you may need to use a jumper from a good battery such as your tow vehicle to get voltage high enough for the charger to work.

And, once voltage is up some, your inverter/charger MAY start.

Need help.

I charged the house and chassis batteries with the standalone battery chargers.

I unplugged from shore power.

I started the engine and checked the voltage on house and chassis batteries.  The voltage is dropping on both house and chassis batteries.

I then turned on the generator and checked the voltage on house and chassis batteries.  The voltage is dropping on both house and chassis batteries.

 

Does this have anything to do with the power I lost the GFI outlet and the outlets that are on that line?

Thanks.

[kaypsmith]

51 minutes ago, bburns8 said:

I started the engine and checked the voltage on house and chassis batteries.  The voltage is dropping on both house and chassis batteries.

If the engine is running and voltage is dropping on the chassis batteries, then you have an issue with the alternator and or the voltage regulator.

 

51 minutes ago, bburns8 said:

Does this have anything to do with the power I lost the GFI outlet and the outlets that are on that line?

It sounds as if you have major problems and a good service tech needs to be called in. It probably all stems from when the system was overloaded with the buffer and microwave ordeal. I certainly wish you the best of luck in getting the issues resolved

[bburns8]

1 hour ago, kaypsmith said:

If the engine is running and voltage is dropping on the chassis batteries, then you have an issue with the alternator and or the voltage regulator.

 

It sounds as if you have major problems and a good service tech needs to be called in. It probably all stems from when the system was overloaded with the buffer and microwave ordeal. I certainly wish you the best of luck in getting the issues resolved

Thank you.

Question:  Are the chassis batteries a separate issue regardless if the inverter/charger is working or not working?  I'm asking because the house batteries are connected to the chassis batteries.

[wolfe10]

44 minutes ago, bburns8 said:

 

Question:  Are the chassis batteries a separate issue regardless if the inverter/charger is working or not working?

Yes, charging from the alternator is unrelated to charging from the inverter/charger.

You really need to find someone competent in diagnosing electrical systems.

Visa via the charge with the engine running-- should be around 14 VDC.  If not functioning, could be the alternator or could be the battery isolator (depending on what kind of isolator you have).

 

[bburns8]

50 minutes ago, wolfe10 said:

Yes, charging from the alternator is unrelated to charging from the inverter/charger.

You really need to find someone competent in diagnosing electrical systems.

Visa via the charge with the engine running-- should be around 14 VDC.  If not functioning, could be the alternator or could be the battery isolator (depending on what kind of isolator you have).

 

ok, I asked because in our coach the chassis and house batteries are connected together.

[wolfe10]

55 minutes ago, bburns8 said:

ok, I asked because in our coach the chassis and house batteries are connected together.

Yes, in all coaches, the alternator charges/is connected to both battery banks.

But, there is no "here is how they are all wired" when it comes to whether the converter, charger or inverter/charger charges not only the house bank but also the chassis battery bank.

[bburns8]

On 8/27/2018 at 5:05 PM, wolfe10 said:

Yes, in all coaches, the alternator charges/is connected to both battery banks.

But, there is no "here is how they are all wired" when it comes to whether the converter, charger or inverter/charger charges not only the house bank but also the chassis battery bank.

Thanks.  Once the MH is repaired do I replace the house batteries since the voltage dropped deeply?  Thoughts?

[bburns8]

Has anyone used Cummins Sales and Service in Kenly, NC for repairs? Good or bad experience?

Thanks.

[kaypsmith]

If the batteries come back up to full charge, then there hopefully will be no worries about replacing for now. But I would have someone load test the batteries to make sure no damage has been done. Most battery supply stores can perform this test for you, just make sure that they are fully charged when you take them to the supplier. I have never used any service in SC, so am not qualified your first question.

[richard5933]

Two thoughts...

1) The OP has stated a few times that the chassis and house batteries are connected. Not sure if this is through an isolator, through a solenoid, or through a mechanical connection (clamp). There should be a way to disconnect them if it is not automatic. If there is a battery isolator it should be keeping one battery bank from discharging the other, so when the engine is running there should be no way for both battery banks to simultaneously discharge like this. If there is a solenoid, then there should be a way to turn it off. If they are mechanically connected - they shouldn't be and that needs to be addresses. My guess is that the two battery banks are connected with a solenoid (boost switch) that's been left turned on when it shouldn't be.

2) If battery banks are both connected to the chassis alternator when the engine is running and both battery banks are discharging, then one of two possibilities exists: either the load on the battery banks exceeds the alternator's output, or the alternator has a problem and is not providing the proper charge. If this was my coach I'd disconnect the ground cable from the house battery bank and then test to see if the chassis alternator is charging the chassis batteries. Once it's determined that the alternator is functioning properly it would be time to work out the connection to the house battery bank.

And a couple of other suggestions:

-Has the output of the inverter/charger been tested when the coach is connected to shore power? I didn't see anything that verified the output of the charger side of the inverter/charger

-Has the "microwave ordeal" been resolved? If not, then it almost sounds like the discharge is due to something still drawing hard from the batteries.

[bburns8]

18 hours ago, richard5933 said:

1) The OP has stated a few times that the chassis and house batteries are connected. Not sure if this is through an isolator, through a solenoid, or through a mechanical connection (clamp). There should be a way to disconnect them if it is not automatic. If there is a battery isolator it should be keeping one battery bank from discharging the other, so when the engine is running there should be no way for both battery banks to simultaneously discharge like this. If there is a solenoid, then there should be a way to turn it off. If they are mechanically connected - they shouldn't be and that needs to be addresses. My guess is that the two battery banks are connected with a solenoid (boost switch) that's been left turned on when it shouldn't be.

2) If battery banks are both connected to the chassis alternator when the engine is running and both battery banks are discharging, then one of two possibilities exists: either the load on the battery banks exceeds the alternator's output, or the alternator has a problem and is not providing the proper charge.

 

Thank you for taking the time to think through this and share your knowledge.  I appreciate it.  I have a solenoid, but do not know where the boost switch is/what it looks like/how to turn it off/on.

There is no load on the battery banks when I start the engine except for what the fridge uses since it switched to propane when the GFCI outlet lost power.

 

19 hours ago, richard5933 said:

If this was my coach I'd disconnect the ground cable from the house battery bank and then test to see if the chassis alternator is charging the chassis batteries. Once it's determined that the alternator is functioning properly it would be time to work out the connection to the house battery bank.

I disconnected the ground cable from the inverter, started the engine and the voltage was dropping on chassis batteries.

 

18 hours ago, richard5933 said:

-Has the output of the inverter/charger been tested when the coach is connected to shore power? I didn't see anything that verified the output of the charger side of the inverter/charger

No, it has not been tested.  I know how to use a multimeter, but do not know how to test output of the inverter/charger.

 

18 hours ago, richard5933 said:

-Has the "microwave ordeal" been resolved? If not, then it almost sounds like the discharge is due to something still drawing hard from the batteries.

No, GFCI outlet lost power and took several other outlets with it (microwave outlet, living room and bedroom TV outlets, bathroom outlet, slide outlet, outlet in dinning area and fridge outlet).  I can't reset the GFCI outlet.  I removed the cover to the GFCI outlet and tested the wires for power and no power is going to the GFCI outlet.  The volt reading was 7. 

 

[bburns8]

On 8/28/2018 at 7:26 PM, kaypsmith said:

If the batteries come back up to full charge, then there hopefully will be no worries about replacing for now. But I would have someone load test the batteries to make sure no damage has been done. Most battery supply stores can perform this test for you, just make sure that they are fully charged when you take them to the supplier. I have never used any service in SC, so am not qualified your first question.

Thanks.  The batteries came back to a full charge, but started dimming yesterday.  I checked the volt reading and it was at 70%.  I put the stand alone battery charger back on them, but the dimming is getting worse.  I do not have a big load as I using the 110 outlet for the things I need to use right now.

[richard5933]

Before spending too much more time, my next step would be to test the batteries and the inverter/charger.

Batteries can be tested by any good auto parts store. One bad cell on one battery can make the entire battery bank act wonky.

The inverter/charger is not too difficult to test. You want to measure the 12v side to be certain it is providing adequate voltage to charge the batteries when it's turned on and in charge mode. When it's drawing from the batteries in order to provide 120v to outlets you want to measure the voltage at the 120v side. Hopefully someone with a similar inverter/charge can chime in with the specific voltage levels you are hoping to find on each end.

All that said, if you put a stand alone charger on the batteries and the lights dimmed with it running, then either your load is larger than the stand alone charger can provide or a battery is failing/failed. Perhaps the inverter is still drawing from the batteries??

If the voltage drops on the chassis batteries while the engine is running, then either you have too large a load on them or the chassis alternator is not working properly. The same auto parts store that tests your batteries can test the output on your alternator. You can also test it with a multimeter - lots of videos on YouTube about this.

You have a solenoid. Find the switch that controls it. It might be labeled as a starting booster. Perhaps whatever load is drawing down your house batteries is drawing down your chassis batteries - that could happen if this solenoid is switch or stuck in the 'connect' mode.

I really believe that this problem will not be all that complicated once you find it. Finding it might be a bit of a hunt and search. Probably one component or system which is affecting all things downhill from it. To me, best approach would be to isolate and test each of the various components individually (chassis alternator, chassis batteries, house batteries, inverter/charger, etc.). Once you find the offending piece of the puzzle the remedy will be simple.

[hermanmullins]

Do both the Chassis batteries and the House batteries begin to drop when fully charged the engine is off. If not then it would seem to me to be a bad Alternator.

I would also check the voltage on both sets of batteries with their ground cables disconnected. do they begin to discharge or stay fully charged. If either set of batteries begin to discharge  then that bank has a bad battery, if neither begins to drop then we are back to the alternator.

IMHO

Herman

[kaypsmith]

I would locate the battery isolator and take it out of the equation first, next make sure that all are good batteries, charge each one and have it load tested, if any are bad, replace all bad batteries. Next, start the engine and check voltage on the chassis batteries with the engine running, you should see 13.6 to 14.2, have someone step on the accelerator and see if the voltage goes up any at all, especially if the voltage was lower than the 13.6. If the voltage is low then expect a bad alternator/ voltage relay. Once the problem has been properly diagnosed and repaired on this end, then with the battery isolator still out of service, then start the house testing and repairs. Same type test check the battery voltage with no lights or any other appliance on, check the battery voltage, if not above 13 volts, then you have an inverter/charger that is not functioning, make sure that the inverter/charger is getting 120 volts input, if not, check for thrown or blown circuit breaker/fuses. If still no voltage to the inverter/charger, then replace wire from circuit breaker to the inverter/charger. After this is cleared up, then move back to the house batteries, again if you don't see at least 13 volts, check all circuit breakers on the inverter/charger, if this does not work, then work towards repair or replacement of this appliance. Next step is to locate the source of the gfci problem and correct it. If you don't have a plan of attack, the enemy will always win out.

 

[bburns8]

10 hours ago, richard5933 said:

You have a solenoid. Find the switch that controls it. It might be labeled as a starting booster. Perhaps whatever load is drawing down your house batteries is drawing down your chassis batteries - that could happen if this solenoid is switch or stuck in the 'connect' mode.

Is the solenoid switch on the solenoid or inside the coach?

[bburns8]

9 hours ago, hermanmullins said:

Do both the Chassis batteries and the House batteries begin to drop when fully charged the engine is off. If not then it would seem to me to be a bad Alternator.

Yes, chassis and house batteries drop when fully charged and engine is off.  They drop gradually and by evening or the next morning I have to place the standalone charger back on them.

[bburns8]

8 hours ago, kaypsmith said:

start the engine and check voltage on the chassis batteries with the engine running, you should see 13.6 to 14.2, have someone step on the accelerator and see if the voltage goes up any at all, especially if the voltage was lower than the 13.6.

I've tested with engine running idle, but not with someone stepping on the accelerator.  I will test it and see what the voltage says. 

[wolfe10]

On most coaches you can raise engine idle RPM with the cruise control or a separate switch.

[richard5933]

2 hours ago, bburns8 said:

Is the solenoid switch on the solenoid or inside the coach?

Usually it would be somewhere near the driver. The purpose of the switch is to engage the solenoid and use the house battery bank to help start the coach's engine. This is useful when you find yourself with a dead chassis battery. If you have a solenoid and it's engaged, then anything that drains the house battery bank will drain the chassis battery bank at the same time. I'm betting that the solenoid is engage right now and that's why both battery banks are draining together. Are the voltage readings of the chassis batteries and house batteries the same? Do they drop to the same voltage overnight? If they are the same and drop the same, then that would certainly indicate that they are joined electrically right now.

 

2 hours ago, bburns8 said:

Yes, chassis and house batteries drop when fully charged and engine is off.  They drop gradually and by evening or the next morning I have to place the standalone charger back on them.

I still suspect that you have something draining the batteries in the coach somewhere. When you did this, did you disconnect the ground cable from each battery bank? You might have multiple cable connected to ground terminals in your battery bank. The one you want to disconnect is the one going from the battery bank to the chassis/body of the coach. By disconnecting the ground cable from each battery bank you isolate them from the coach and eliminate anything that could be draining them.

If, after the batteries are properly disconnected, they still drain down overnight then it's time to have the batteries changed out. They should not have a noticeable voltage drop overnight if they are in good condition. Remember though, the voltage will read higher while the stand-alone charger (or any charger) is connected. The reading will drop slowly over a few minutes until it stabilizes, and then should stay relatively stable overnight if there is no load on the batteries.

[bburns8]

Any on you want to come to NC?  Football game this weekend in Raleigh.  RV park is right here at the stadium.  I need help!

I will be testing these suggestions tomorrow.

Question: 
When the house batteries are disconnected by the ground terminals and I start the engine IF the chassis batteries are not dropping would I be able to drive the coach with the ground terminal disconnected to the batteries?  If yes, would there be anything else that would need to be disconnected?  

[kaypsmith]

If the isolator is a solenoid, you can disconnect it by disconnecting all wires from it. Before disconnecting any wires, take a picture of it, then label each wire making sure that the label is legible, pointed so that you can read the label while still attached. Once you are completely sure that you can reattach just like they are right now, carefully detach each wire making sure that you can put them back. Now you are ready to start testing. Your are last question came in while I was typing. If the ground wire to the chassis battery is disconnected, your coach will not crank  because there will be no current available to do so, and please do not try to crank or drive the MH with chassis ground disconnected.

[richard5933]

1 hour ago, bburns8 said:

Question: 

When the house batteries are disconnected by the ground terminals and I start the engine IF the chassis batteries are not dropping would I be able to drive the coach with the ground terminal disconnected to the batteries?  If yes, would there be anything else that would need to be disconnected?  

Theoretically, yes. You should be able to start and drive the coach with the house batteries disconnected as long as the chassis batteries are doing well and still connected. I say theoretically, however, because one never knows what might be connected to the house system instead of the chassis system. For instance, in our coach the GPS and dash radio are connected to the house system. You just have to be sure that all required systems (lights, gauges, etc) are functioning before taking off. As kaypsmith mentioned, you shouldn't attempt to start or drive the coach with the chassis batteries disconnected or non-functioning.  If you are going to move the coach with a ground cable disconnected, you should tape end to be sure that it cannot accidentally make contact with a positive connection. I'd also zip tie it to keep it from flopping around for safety. You'd be in serious trouble if the negative cable accidentally contacted a positive terminal, so make sure that cannot happen.

[manholt]

bburns8.

If you call the REV Tech department and give them your VIN# and FIN#, they will download the electrical schematic for your coach.  Have you done that?  It may be a 2000 or 2001 chassis/engine, depending on when in 2001 your build date was!

Only Football game I watch or go to now, is College!