Diesel Engine Winter-Cold weather Storage

[lpigula]

Hello all, Just curious if FMCA has a detailed checklist/procedure for people to follow for storing a diesel motorhome outside for 3-4 months in winter conditons that are below freezing? For example, fuel tank full; winter additive added, is it recommended to start and run either the coach engine or the onboard deisel generator during the 3-4 months...if yes for how long, etc.

Looking for solid technical advice more so than opinions...

resepctfully...Lyle

[wolfe10]

lpigula,

Welcome to the FMCA Forum.

If you already have diesel in the tank (i.e. not winter grade diesel) go by a Walmart and get P/S brand diesel anti-gel. 

Also, a very good idea to add a BIOCIDE such as Biobor JF to prevent algae growth.

Then drive it enough to completely mix and than top off the tank with diesel.  This will minimize condensation in the tank.

 

ONLY start the engine if you can drive 25 highway miles (a very good idea).  It takes that long for the oil, not just coolant to get up to temperature.

Running the generator once a month is a good idea-- be sure the load is at least 50% of rated capacity.

[lpigula]

Thanks for the prompt reply. I have #1 diesel in the tank, and last week I added power service fuel supplement & cetane boost...(white bottle) due to driving home at below freezing temperatures last week. So there is no concern letting the coach engine sit for 3 months without running and lubricating the engine?

thanks again...Lyle

[wolfe10]

Lyle,

You must be WAY far north to already have #1 diesel at the pumps. PS makes a number of different diesel additives.  Make sure you used their anti-gel is you had much #2 diesel in the tank.

If you are asking for a ranking:

1. Best drive occasionally, but only if you can drive at least 25 highway miles.

2. Second best-- let it sit.

3. Worse-- start the engine and let it idle.  That WILL add moisture to the crankcase.

[richard5933]

We live in Wisconsin where winters get to -20 or colder, and our coach is stored outdoors. I park mine from the end of November until probably early March. The tank will be full with anti-gel added (in case we need to start/run the coach for some reason). Unless there is absolute need to do so, we won't start the engine until we're ready to drive again in March. Never have had a problem letting the engine sit for a few months like this. When you first start in the spring, be sure oil pressure comes up before you rev the engine above idle.

We leave the multi-stage smart charger on the batteries 24/7 - it goes to a maintenance charge once things are fully charged. Other precautions we take are to change fluids & filters and test antifreeze for adequate freeze protection. I try and find a warmer day every month to go out and check the battery water level. Not usually a problem, but I don't want to have the water level drop and not be noticed.

One thing that many forget is to fully drain the air tanks. Check your manual to be sure you don't miss a drain point. If you have an air dryer (you probably do) check the manual to see how to confirm that the water is fully drained before the coach is parked.

On the generator, we also change fluids & filters as necessary. Battery is topped off, and connected to the smart charger. About once a month, on the occasional warmer day we get through the winter, I'll start the generator and run with about a half load for 30 minutes or so. Usually I use the electric heat inside the coach for the load. Be sure to verify freeze point on your generator antifreeze as well as the main engine.

Finding #1 Diesel fuel is easy up here, especially in the winter. More common is finding 'winter fuel' which is blended to help prevent gelling. Since my last fill up is usually before the stations fully switch to winter fuel, I add the anti-gel to the tank. We really don't need it since we don't use the coach in the winter, but it's in there just in case we have reason to start/run the coach. The roads are covered in either salt, salt water, or salt dust from the first snow till early spring, so I will not run the coach unless there is absolute need to.

Of course, we also do all the usual winter prep for all the house systems. I use -75 pink RV antifreeze in the freshwater system. Freshwater tank will be fully drained, and do my best to empty the black tank before adding a few gallons of antifreeze to it.  I do my best to close any possible entry points for mice, and then lay out a dozen or so large sticky traps unless one gets in. I'll check the traps during my weekly checks on the coach. All food will be removed, and all items in the bathroom which can freeze are removed.

Hope this helps.

[rsbilledwards]

In ten years, in Colorado High Country, 2 coaches 1999 and 2001 C12 and 330 3126B CATS, sit outside, full tanks of fuel with shell covers. Batteries watered up and fully charged and plugged in. I have never started engines nor generators till spring. They have always started with in a couple rotations. Both generators under 300 hours one starts on second rotation the other half a dozen as from day one. 

As Bret and Richard suggest...let common sense prevail

[lpigula]

Thanks for all the good comments and information...much appreciated...regards..Lyle

[rayin]

FWIW, Cummins/Onan states to run the genset at 50% load for 2 hrs each month. That said, when we bought this MH, it had been parked in a barn for 6 yrs without being touched.

[fagnaml]

Lyle --

Brett has given excellent advice as usual.  The Power Service winterizer/anti-gel additive Brett recommends is in a white bottle and should be available at your favorite Walmart --> https://powerservice.com/psp_product/diesel-fuel-supplement-cetane-boost/

Power Service also makes a biocide additive --> https://powerservice.com/psp_product/bio-kleen-diesel-fuel-biocide/

I also use the Sta-bil brand of diesel fuel stabilizer, in addition to the biocide, when my motorhome sits mostly unused for one or more months to keep the diesel from oxidizing / polymerizing, turning black, forming sludge, etc.  --> https://www.goldeagle.com/product/diesel-formula-sta-bil-fuel-stabilizer/

In the Houston area, I've typically had to purchase the biocide and stabilizer at a farm and ranch store (Tractor Supply specifically) as local Walmart's do not carry those products.

As the "refinery operations guy" in the forum, I highly recommend using the stabilizer and biocide for any longer term storage of diesel (i.e. more than one month) as diesel will oxidize and bacteria will grow in the presence of oxygen and moisture.  Keeping your fuel tank full will help minimize, but not eliminate, air (oxygen) and moisture intrusion into your diesel fuel.  Also, even though winter ULSD has a cloud point specification of 15 F (the temperature at which wax crystals start to form) I error on the conservative side and add the winterizer / anti-gel additive when ambient temperatures are forecast to drop below 30 F.

This link provides good info on what happens to diesel fuel when stored without these additives --> https://diesel-mate.com/fuel-quality-assurance.html

 

[five]

4 hours ago, fagnaml said:

 

In the Houston area, I've typically had to purchase the biocide and stabilizer at a farm and ranch store (Tractor Supply specifically) as local Walmart's do not carry those products.

Biocide can usually be found in marine/boat stores as well.  I order mine from West Marine on line.

[manholt]

Mike, excellent advice, as usual.  

Does the same apply to Red Diesel?  I'm thinking it does, but not sure.   

[rsbilledwards]

Yes Carl...there is only one difference between the two, one is RED and of course you knew that. the other difference inconsequential to this is the untaxed price.

[ispjs]

Brett has outlined it pretty well.  I never placed a diesel RV in storage for the winter, however for years we had to store our twin engine diesel boat up north.  

I topped off both 150 gallon tanks with fresh #2 diesel and put in additives.  With heavy 8D batteries they were always left in place with zero issues.  Obviously the motors and generator could not be exercised during storage and everything always worked out fine in the spring.  Remember, there are literally thousands of large vessels with diesel engines that are stored up north every winter without being started or "driven" for several months.

[rayin]

4 hours ago, ISPJS said:

Brett has outlined it pretty well.  I never placed a diesel RV in storage for the winter, however for years we had to store our twin engine diesel boat up north.  

I topped off both 150 gallon tanks with fresh #2 diesel and put in additives.  With heavy 8D batteries they were always left in place with zero issues.  Obviously the motors and generator could not be exercised during storage and everything always worked out fine in the spring.  Remember, there are literally thousands of large vessels with diesel engines that are stored up north every winter without being started or "driven" for several months.

One that immediately comes to mind are farmers combines, which are only used during harvest time. The large farmers I know use nothing in their diesel  tanks, just top them off, park it until next year. Of course they are not exposed to the high humidity levels as is marine fuel.

[richard5933]

Curiosity begs a question about all the additives...

I understand the purpose and necessity for the anti-gel for those, like us, in the frozen north.

My question about the other additives for algae, biocides, and stabilizers. I don't see many with older 2-stroke engines using these products, but they seem somewhat common to the modern, 4-stroke Diesel crowd. Is there something about the modern engines or modern fuel systems that make them more finicky and/or susceptible to problems from things like algae? Or have I (and others) just been lucky up till now?

[wolfe10]

3 minutes ago, richard5933 said:

 Is there something about the modern engines or modern fuel systems that make them more finicky and/or susceptible to problems from things like algae? Or have I (and others) just been lucky up till now?

Well, algae can clog a fuel filter in any engine.

But, modern diesel fuel systems have closer tolerances, so it is common to fit them with finer micron rating filters.  Yes, a 2 micron filter will clog faster than a 5 or 10 micron filter.

[richard5933]

Thanks Brett. Hadn't thought about how fine the newer filters are. Our primary filter looks like a sock covering a paper filter. That probably explains why the older engines are more tolerant.

[fagnaml]

Carl --

Bill already provided the "yes" answer to red dyed diesel in terms of needing to use stabilizer and algecide additives.   Keep in mind that "red" diesel has higher sulfur content compared to ULSD (i.e. 500 ppm sulfur vs. 15 ppm sulfur in ULSD) and can only be used for off-road use (e.g. farm equipment, rail road engines, etc. without SCRs).   Don't allow red dyed diesel anywhere near engines that have SCRs in the exhaust system.  The sulfur in red diesel would quickly kill the catalyst in the SCRs.

[manholt]

Mike, no fear of that, it's a 1985 Ford, 43 hp, diesel, tractor combo. 6' blade and a bat wing bush hog.  The other is a Toyota Fork lift, 17' lift 3,000 lbs.  1992 CAT, track dozer/bucket.  You use Red in truck or coach & get inspected by any LEO & your in deep trouble...not going to happen!    

[rayin]

6 hours ago, fagnaml said:

Carl --

Bill already provided the "yes" answer to red dyed diesel in terms of needing to use stabilizer and algecide additives.   Keep in mind that "red" diesel has higher sulfur content compared to ULSD (i.e. 500 ppm sulfur vs. 15 ppm sulfur in ULSD) and can only be used for off-road use (e.g. farm equipment, rail road engines, etc. without SCRs).   Don't allow red dyed diesel anywhere near engines that have SCRs in the exhaust system.  The sulfur in red diesel would quickly kill the catalyst in the SCRs.

That is no longer the case; https://www.epa.gov/diesel-fuel-standards/diesel-fuel-standards-and-rulemakings

[rayin]

8 hours ago, manholt said:

Mike, no fear of that, it's a 1985 Ford, 43 hp, diesel, tractor combo. 6' blade and a bat wing bush hog.  The other is a Toyota Fork lift, 17' lift 3,000 lbs.  1992 CAT, track dozer/bucket.  You use Red in truck or coach & get inspected by any LEO & your in deep trouble...not going to happen!    

That red dye stains the inside of the fuel tank and fuel lines, takes a loooong time for it to rinse out with OTR fuel. Here in Indiana, for a year or so after this red dye implementation, every time I went to a farm auction I would notice a couple of men roaming the parking areas with a handful of flexible rods, dipsticking trucks fuel tanks. That faded away after a few years, now I never see that.

[manholt]

Probably due to the $10,000 to $20,000 fine + a year in jail, then whatever the State does to your Lic & Ins.  No rancher that I know, want any part of that !!!  If you know someone in Gov't, don't even think BLUE.