B20 BioFuel

[f433921]

Just traveled from WA state to southern CA, once that I left WA all major truck stops (Love's,Petro,Pilot) in OR ad CA had their pumps labeled as MAY HAVE CONTENTS BETWEEN 5% AND 20% BIO.

This was some concern to me because my 2004 HR Endeavor Cummins 8.3 ISC  is not rated for the use of fuels with more that 5% bio.  I do use Power Service additives and have seen no change in performance.

My concerns are what are the long term effect on the engine when using  of B20 fuel.  

My coach had 29k miles on it when I purchased in 2011 and now is approaching 80k miles and I am planning to keep it form many more miles.  I do carry spare fuel filters and gallon of diesel fuel should I need to change filters when on the road.

 

Jim

 

[campcop]

https://www.cummins.com/engines/biodiesel-faqs

[jleamont]

2 hours ago, F433921 said:

My concerns are what are the long term effect on the engine when using  of B20 fuel.  

The link Jim provided is great for answering questions.

I have filled up many times from pumps bearing the same label and all I have ever experienced was lower power and MPG's. Our coach is slightly older than yours. I always use a fuel additive at every fill up, when I see those labels I add more, that usually overcomes the MPG and low power issue.

 

[fagnaml]

Jim --

Let me the "Refining guy" opine.  First off, biodiesel/renewable diesel, being mostly comprised of mostly paraffinic molecules, is a very good diesel fuel from a cetane index, BTU content, etc. perspective.  However, being mostly paraffinic, biodiesel/renewable diesel has very high cloud point temperature (the temp at which wax crystals form) and is a very good solvent.   Being a good solvent, fuel systems in older diesel engine vehicles may not have O-rings, gaskets, hoses, etc. made from a solvent resistance material.  As such, engine manufacturers such as Cummins state biodiesel blends should not be used for older engines.  The biodiesel will not hurt the engine itself, rather biodiesel can cause fuel system components to fail and leak. 

Across the country, the ULSD sold a pumps will contain 5% biodiesel / renewable diesel to meet EPA mandated renewable fuels use.   The EPA allows and encourages the use of ULSD containing between 5% and 20% biodiesel / renewable diesel.   However to sell the ULSD with the higher bio/renewable diesel content, the truck stop, service station, etc. must label all ULSD pumps stating the ULSD could contain 5-20% bio/renewable diesel.   This labeling is required in response to engine manufacturers who said that higher biodiesel content ULSD is not compatible with components on older engines.

The West Coast, especially California and Washington, are pushing growth in biodiesel / renewable diesel use in their campaign to kill fossil fuels.   Additionally, my personal theory is by pushing the use of biodiesel / renewable diesel and the problems they cause for older engines that vehicle owners will purchase vehicles with new, biodiesel compatible fuel systems that,  by the way, brings Selective Catalytic Reduction systems (and use of DEF) that reduce NOx, CO, etc. content in engine exhaust.   On the West Coast it will become increasingly difficult to find ULSD that has 5% biodiesel/renewable diesel content.

[f433921]

1 hour ago, fagnaml said:

Jim --

Let me the "Refining guy" opine.  First off, biodiesel/renewable diesel, being mostly comprised of mostly paraffinic molecules, is a very good diesel fuel from a cetane index, BTU content, etc. perspective.  However, being mostly paraffinic, biodiesel/renewable diesel has very high cloud point temperature (the temp at which wax crystals form) and is a very good solvent.   Being a good solvent, fuel systems in older diesel engine vehicles may not have O-rings, gaskets, hoses, etc. made from a solvent resistance material.  As such, engine manufacturers such as Cummins state biodiesel blends should not be used for older engines.  The biodiesel will not hurt the engine itself, rather biodiesel can cause fuel system components to fail and leak. 

Across the country, the ULSD sold a pumps will contain 5% biodiesel / renewable diesel to meet EPA mandated renewable fuels use.   The EPA allows and encourages the use of ULSD containing between 5% and 20% biodiesel / renewable diesel.   However to sell the ULSD with the higher bio/renewable diesel content, the truck stop, service station, etc. must label all ULSD pumps stating the ULSD could contain 5-20% bio/renewable diesel.   This labeling is required in response to engine manufacturers who said that higher biodiesel content ULSD is not compatible with components on older engines.

The West Coast, especially California and Washington, are pushing growth in biodiesel / renewable diesel use in their campaign to kill fossil fuels.   Additionally, my personal theory is by pushing the use of biodiesel / renewable diesel and the problems they cause for older engines that vehicle owners will purchase vehicles with new, biodiesel compatible fuel systems that,  by the way, brings Selective Catalytic Reduction systems (and use of DEF) that reduce NOx, CO, etc. content in engine exhaust.   On the West Coast it will become increasingly difficult to find ULSD that has 5% biodiesel/renewable diesel content.

Thanks for the info, it's insuring to know that the bio diesel will  will cause no harm to internal engine parts...My brother-in-law just broke down on the freeway, injector pump failure.  Mechanic blamed failure on bio20 fuel.

Is there anyway the consumer can determine the biodiesel  blend at point of sale.  It seem to me you will see gas pumps labeled in the future with only one grade with an informative sign that saw The GAS YOU ARE PURCHASING MAY BE  REGULAR< MID or PREMIUM GRADE.

Jim

[brocki]

Hmmmmm.  Makes me wonder about  my 2007 Cat C7 diesel.  We travel all over the country as full timers and so far all is (running) well.  From a practical standpoint, it doesn't seem we have much control over content in these fuels.  If I am in California or Michigan, when we need fuel, we need fuel. 

[rayin]

My experience last fall. You see my MH details in my signature. The lift pump began leaking a bit. After having it replaced, I found the 3 mating bolts on the old pump loose, and the gasket squashed very thin.  IMO that gasket failed from exposure to bio-diesel fuel, as these pumps seldom failed(so I was told) before biodiesel became mandatory.

This lift pump only operates for ~30 seconds after the key in turned on, to prime the injector pump, so there is not a continuous leak. After the engine starts the injector pump sucks fuel through the lift pump.

Sometimes simply tightening the bolts stops the leak, otherwise the gasket must be replaced(yes new bio-diesel safe gaskets are sold on the internet). If replacing the gasket also fails, the entire pump must be replaced.

Moral; if your pump begins leaking (onto the starter no less = fire hazard) tighten the 3 bolts on top first.