Performance Improvments

[wildebill308]

What if any modes have you done to your exhaust or air cleaner.

Has any one added a chip to improve performance or mileage? For instance a Banks power pack system.

Bill

[wolfe10]

Bill,

Please tell us what chassis/engine you have.

Comments about a Chevy 454 with carburetor would be of little help to you if you have a 2006 Ford V10.

[wildebill308]

Yes my bad.

2003 Bounder 38N with 300 hp Cummins and 3000 Allison.

I am familiar with modes to gas motor homes but new to the world of diesel.

I understand using a light foot but wonder what else is out there.

Bill

[wolfe10]

For information on the Allison Mode Button, read my article "Allison Transmission Mode Button": March 2012 page 40.

[desertdeals69]

What if any modes have you done to your exhaust or air cleaner.

Has any one added a chip to improve performance or mileage? For instance a Banks power pack system.

Bill

There are a number of things you can do. I have installed an Aero stainless steel muffler which is straight through with a venturi effect which is supposed to have less back pressure and I increased the air inlet from the roofline to the air cleaner to 6 inches in diameter and K&N air filter. The changes probably have helped mileage some as when I fueled up in Las Vegas the other day, I had gone 871 miles and got 10.93 mpg. I have a 32 foot with an ISB 275 towing a 1/2 ton Silverado with full tanks, 225 gallons of diesel.

[wildebill308]

There are a number of things you can do. I have installed an Aero stainless steel muffler which is straight through with a venturi effect which is supposed to have less back pressure and I increased the air inlet from the roofline to the air cleaner to 6 inches in diameter and K&N air filter. The changes probably have helped mileage some as when I fueled up in Las Vegas the other day, I had gone 871 miles and got 10.93 mpg. I have a 32 foot with an ISB 275 towing a 1/2 ton Silverado with full tanks, 225 gallons of diesel.

I installed a Banks stainless steel muffler which is straight through with a venturi effect. I looked at the Aerodine at The 6 state rally and I decided to go with the Banks. I almost went with the K&N but found this filter test and I am glad I didn’t. This is a link to the filter test. You might want to read it if you are using a K&N filter. This is the only test that I have seen that used lab test equipment to do a test that is repeatable and to a given standard ISO 5011 test standard was used.

http://www.billswebs...rFilterTest.htm

I am in the process of upgrading my air filter. I ordered a Racor/Ecolite filter part number 62891-003 from Filter Barn and waiting for it to arrive. This is a 13 1/2-diameter filter. I looked up the flow rate on their website and it list 1375 to 1900 CFM. I will have to use adapters to get it hooked up, as it is 7 inch in and 7 inch out. I was looking at the K&N but after reading the test results on them I changed my mind. I think this filter will give better airflow than stock and better than the K&N (I have never heard what K&N claims), and hold more dirt before needing change. Hear is a link to the filter site

http://www.parker.co...nextcat=ECOLITE SERIES&vgnextdiv=687630&vgnextpartno=062891003&Wtky=FILTERS

Fleet pride is ordering the adapters that I need to connect the new filter. I probably won’t get the filter installed before I leave on a little trip next week so we will see if there is any difference with just the muffler.

Bill

[desertdeals69]

I test ran the K&N filter for 1 and 1/2 years, 8000 miles, then had the oil analyzed by Blackstone labs in Indiana and the results showed the filter was doing a good job. The production K&N filter was available this past May and I installed it. I just sent in another oil sample and I am waiting for the results.

[wildebill308]

Unfortunately an oil test will only tell you how much Silica has gotten by your rings and is in suspension in your oil. It will not tell you what your oil filter has trapped. I wonder if there is any damage being done to your turbo, valves and heads. I have seen enough evidence in that test data that I will not be running a K&N. I was a believer in them and had one on my last truck.

Just as a note: I use to run an oil test lab when I was in the AF.

Bill

[desertdeals69]

I installed a Banks stainless steel muffler which is straight through with a venturi effect. I looked at the Aerodine at The 6 state rally and I decided to go with the Banks. I almost went with the K&N but found this filter test and I am glad I didn’t. This is a link to the filter test. You might want to read it if you are using a K&N filter. This is the only test that I have seen that used lab test equipment to do a test that is repeatable and to a given standard ISO 5011 test standard was used.

http://www.billswebs...rFilterTest.htm

I am in the process of upgrading my air filter. I ordered a Racor/Ecolite filter part number 62891-003 from Filter Barn and waiting for it to arrive. This is a 13 1/2-diameter filter. I looked up the flow rate on their website and it list 1375 to 1900 CFM. I will have to use adapters to get it hooked up, as it is 7 inch in and 7 inch out. I was looking at the K&N but after reading the test results on them I changed my mind. I think this filter will give better airflow than stock and better than the K&N (I have never heard what K&N claims), and hold more dirt before needing change. Hear is a link to the filter site

http://www.parker.co...nextcat=ECOLITE SERIES&vgnextdiv=687630&vgnextpartno=062891003&Wtky=FILTERS

Fleet pride is ordering the adapters that I need to connect the new filter. I probably won’t get the filter installed before I leave on a little trip next week so we will see if there is any difference with just the muffler.

Bill

After some investigation I have found out that the test that was written up was done in 2004 using the old cotton media. This media performed well if properly oiled. In 2006 Mr Spicer was invited to K&N test labs, and he went and witnessed the testing procedure that they use. They were using the synthetic media that does not require oil. The result were quite different than what Mr, Spicer had witnessed in the other test. The testing standard ISO 5011 Is just a test protocol for the test technician to use. There will be some differences in the conclusions. Since the main product that K&N manufactures is air filters I would think that they would build the finest product possible.

[wildebill308]

Why won't K&N release the air flow/ dirt stopping data?

I would think if it was superior it would be a great sales tool.

I would believe their claims if they had the testing done at a certified independent lab. I would like to see some of the oem air cleaners tested to give a comparison.

Bill

[thrushl]

I'm running the Aero muffler and the new K&N Air Filter. That gained me almost one MPG on my 515 Detroit. Had a friend who is a LAB tester by profession analyze the air flow and quality just before it entered the intake manifold. The air flow increased and the quality (pp something he measures :-) ) did not change under the five conditions he tested including a simulated dust storm. There was baby powder in the air and it looked like fog being sucked into the air filter. Yes, he cleaned it for me in the lab before I left.

He did note that the air temp going into the intake manifold decreased by 7 degrees in all tests. He contributed that to the higher air flow of the K&N.

So, although the test were ran in an simulated real environment by a lab rat, I would not say it was TOTALLY scientific meaning that the results many be limited to my specific configuration and system. BUT, I like it....

On a side note, it did not increase MPG based on my old man driving styles, but I had a turbo wrap installed and they thermal wrapped the exhaust all the way to the muffler, only about eight feet of pipe on my rig. I brought down the temp in our bedroom which is over the engine compartment, makes for much quicker turbo spin-up (but I hardly notice with my driving style), and it makes my exhaust sound cool with the jake brake. OK, this is not why I did it. It actually improves the scavenging effect of the exhaust allowing it to handle the extra air flow without increasing exhaust gas temps. BUT it does sound cool :-)

Cheers

Leo

[ocglass]

I also tried improving the fuel efficiency with many ways in hand. But nothing of that sorts worked. Could anybody suggest something really working in this account.

[wolfe10]

Ocglass,

Welcome to the FMCA Forum.

Please tell us what coach you have (GCW= Gross Combined Weight) if you have it.

Also, what engine and transmission you have.

What techniques/mechanical changes have you made in search of more MPG? What MPG do you get-- best to look at average over several thousand miles?

What speed do you drive? Mostly flat land, hills or mountains?

[herroncarl]

C12 Cat turbo

I have insulated the exhaust manifold and turbo with high temp wrapping. This was done on a 8V92 Detroit I had with over 200,000 mi on it and no problems. Its my understanding this helps the performance.

Does anyone have experience with this?

Thanks,

Carl

I guess this was the wrong place to ask this question.

[deenad]

I installed a full Banks kit on our DSDP 4090 w/Cummins ISC 350 some years ago. Never noticed any improvement in fuel mileage but the power definitely was an improvement!

Now I need to look at improving the filter as a new filter shows 15 under normal conditions and if I let it run out it goes even higher. Problem is that the intake plumbing all the way through is 6" and I need to really look at what I have room to do.

[thrushl]

C12 Cat turbo

I have insulated the exhaust manifold and turbo with high temp wrapping. This was done on a 8V92 Detroit I had with over 200,000 mi on it and no problems. Its my understanding this helps the performance.

Does anyone have experience with this?

Thanks,

Carl

I guess this was the wrong place to ask this question.

Thanks for posting this. I too have read and talked to folks that say this wrapping helps, but then others seem to say no. Glad to hear that you are having sucess.

[jleamont]

Old thread but the question is once presented itself.

The muffler on our coach is starting to fail at the end caps, getting a bit rusty around the seams. Any recommendations for a replacement muffler? When I checked on the web the Aero muffler mentioned above with the Venturi is all I seem to locate for our coach. I have 5" inlet and outlet. I have the ability to retrofit a replacement (mig, tig welder and plasma cutter in the garage). Maybe something that will provide better flow, MPG, lower exhaust gas temps? Our last coach had the Banks Power Pack with headers and it really did nothing to the MPG, just accelerated much faster.

Things to consider, I don't want excessive interior noise and with a true Jake brake I don't want to aggravate people when using it. I wouldn't mind a little extra noise but I don't want to rattle Windows. Most towns now have signs posted not to use compression brakes and I can only think it's due to modified exhaust on trucks and tractors, I do not want to roll into town and make enemies.

Thanks for any recommendations.

[wolfe10]

This as been recommended as a less noisy alternative with low restriction (no first hand experience):

http://www.magnaflow.com/products?partnumber=12774

The gain from reduced restriction depends to a large degree on how restrictive the OE muffler is/was.

[five]

JMHO, of course, but the manufacturers make these engines to perform in a certain manner in certain vehicles. I did not change anything on my last engine (Cummins ISL 400) nor will I change anything on my currrent engine (DD 500). They both do the job fine, plus I have heard too many horror stories from those who have tried to make them more powerful or get better mileage.

[wildebill308]

Old thread but the question is once presented itself.

The muffler on our coach is starting to fail at the end caps, getting a bit rusty around the seams. Any recommendations for a replacement muffler? When I checked on the web the Aero muffler mentioned above with the Venturi is all I seem to locate for our coach. I have 5" inlet and outlet. I have the ability to retrofit a replacement (mig, tig welder and plasma cutter in the garage). Maybe something that will provide better flow, MPG, lower exhaust gas temps? Our last coach had the Banks Power Pack with headers and it really did nothing to the MPG, just accelerated much faster.

Things to consider, I don't want excessive interior noise and with a true Jake brake I don't want to aggravate people when using it. I wouldn't mind a little extra noise but I don't want to rattle Windows. Most towns now have signs posted not to use compression brakes and I can only think it's due to modified exhaust on trucks and tractors, I do not want to roll into town and make enemies.

Thanks for any recommendations.

You might try a straight pipe and see what it sounds like. If it isn't to loud you have a cheap fix. You have the tools. and it isn't an expensive mod to do or change. Like Wolfe10 said if you have a straight through muffler already you might not get much change.

I like the muffler he has a link to.

One other source is try one of your local parts stores that caters to the kids hot rodding diesel trucks they often have several in stock.

I am running a Banks 4" I don't think they have a 5".

Bill

[jleamont]

This as been recommended as a less noisy alternative with low restriction (no first hand experience):

http://www.magnaflow.com/products?partnumber=12774

The gain from reduced restriction depends to a large degree on how restrictive the OE muffler is/was.

Thanks Brett for the link, that's a reasonable priced muffler and not very large.

I have no idea if the current muffler is straight thru or not. It looks like a transit bus muffler its got to be every bit of 4' long and 3' wide, given the size of the mounting system holding it up I bet its heavy. It does have an offset which makes me think its not straight through.

I am not concerned with better performance or MPG, stock it does just fine, if any is gained from the change so be it. If I cut the heat down in the engine bay that would be a bigger positive.

My old Class C I removed the Banks muffler after one year (hung down too low and snagged a tree root) I replaced it with a Flowmaster "big block" muffler, no improvement over the Banks but it kind of sounded like a swarm of bees passing you when that V10 was wound up . At idle is sounded like it meant business.

Thanks for the recommendations!

[rsbilledwards]

There are numerous enhancements to be made within the manufacturers production guidelines that have little to no adverse affect on tear and tear. Not everything the manufacturers produce is designed to produce the ultimate level of performance and a great deal is dictated today by DOT. I too have used the AERO 5" Stainless and found it to be pleasing to the ear. It can be noisy if one has a heavy foot, otherwise the volume is modulatable with a lighter application of the foot. The biggest gain has been from wrapping the exhaust with the 2 inch fiberglass exhaust tape. The heat reduction in the bedroom of our 2001 Safari Zanzibar has been significant. I went one step further though in this effort to reduce the bedroom temp and added in some places 1 inch and in other places 1/2 inch of foil faced foam board and in some areas an additional layer of foil faced space age bubble insulation to interior and exterior surfaces in order to reflect this heat away from the bedroom. The result has been amazing, with little to negligible heat rise 5 minutes to ten minutes after shut down. 1 inch foam and 1/4 inch foil faced bubble equals R12! Back to the heat wrap. It stands to reason that if the fiberglass wrap keeps 90% of the heat in the exhaust tubing, then wrapping the intake plenum tubing to keep the heat out will translate to ultimately more power by increasing the density of the air which is the reason we have inner coolers or CAC units to decrease the heat from incoming air which increases density which equals horsepower!!!. Will we feel it, likely not but races are won by thousandths or hundredths of a second and can we feel or sense such a small fraction of time, I doubt it. Over time it will add up. I might add here to that the wholesale cost of the AERO muffler is about 130 dollars. I have seen the retail price as high as $250 from some of our supporting retailers when they are giving us a "deal".

[jleamont]

Magnaflow muffler is now installed, I have to locate a new chrome exhaust tip tomorrow to finish it off.

Original muffler had three holes in it the size of two fingers two were pointed up one pointed down and the mounting straps were cutting through it. It was hollow inside also, just with two 180 degree turns before exiting (exhaust path was an S inside) That should help keep temperatures back there lower.

Sound; no louder than it was just a little more throaty sounding.

[wildebill308]

So the old muffler was really free flowing.

Bill

[jleamont]

Bill yes, but oddly it seems to run better. I drove it for the first time tonight, we have a hill not far that I usually pull at 45 with my foot in it, tonight I topped it at 57. Could just be the outside temps are in the 40's so the colder air played a part in it. I wanted to see how loud it was with the engine brake on and to see if my DW was going to have a problem with it, we love the silence while driving, and I didn't want to give that up. It has a deep tone and when your in the throttle if you listen I can hear the throaty sound., but it doesn't catch your attention. Since it's so far behind me it's a faint sound, I can still whisper up front and my wife will be able to hear me. So no saying anything under my breath! 

With the engine brake on high coming through town between the buildings it sounds like a semi with straight pipes, but with the volume turned down, if that makes any sense, so not annoying but it sounds like it means business.

 I'm happy with it and the out of pocket was good also.

I finished it off with this: http://mbrpexhauststore.com/t5074-mbrp-6-tip-dual-wall-angled-5-inlet-12-length-t304-ss