ISB Cummins Fuel Injection Pump Failure

[dave111451]

Hi all,

Anyone know anything about repeat failures of injection pumps? 2004 Sportscoach Crosscountry ISB hpcr 300 hp.

Had pump replaced for no start 20 months ago at 29000 miles. Started acting up yesterday, check engine lite on and off. Seemed to miss at idle. Got off highway to campground ,checked in and on way to site it died.Changed fuel filter and bleed air good flow from lift pump.Will fire but not start. Iam suspecting high pressure pump bad again. Now at 42000 miles.

[dickandlois]

ISB Engine is one of the good ones regarding the 2004 year of production.

Have you had the ECM scanned of fault codes ? That might be stored as the Check Engine light did come on.

Unless something outside the norm happened the engine should run for many more miles then you mentioned.

This year engine has a High Pressure Rail injector system and was a good improvement over the Bosh VP-44 system. Low fuel pressure from the lift pump can damage the pumps, they need good fuel flow to cool the electronics inside the pumps.

Some chassis manufactures installed a third fuel filter in the fuel line ahead of the lift pump and tucked in along the chassis frame rail drivers side close to the rear axle. This one is real hard to see and find.

Rich.

[dave111451]

hi,

Turned out engine dropped a valve seat took out piston, injector tip,turbo,etc.

broken injector tip caused fuel pressure to drop.

After checking on coach one am went to have breakfast and was rear ended at stoplight.coach down,c ar smashed but driveable I am Getting out of New Mexico asap. Had to order long block for coach so will have to fly back to get it.

Little bit fed up with cummins engine right now but will get over it. Dave

[dickandlois]

Copy of a PM I received from Dave.

Sent 11 February 2013 - 10:55 AM

Thanks for your interest,

Only codes at time were egr and low voltage to ecm.voltage caused by bad
battery,egr code common when thia happens according to dealer service
mechanic.

They say that this dropping valves is not real uncommon.Got mh back
last week and now in Idaho,no problems so far.Had all new hoses
coolant,all filters,radiator,exhaust manifold,etc installed with
motor.manifold had small crack in it.

After thinking about this earlier,when traveling in Arkansas in
November mh started to miss coming threw mountians.We stopped to check
and it sounded like a bad valve at exhaust,i drained fuel water
seperator and it came out of miss so traveled on and it ran fine.This i
think was valve seat being loose holding valve open.Dealer says seat
coming loose is from too much idling and hot shut down.I bought mh used
so i do not know if this was ever done.Told me usally valve problem
occurs when motor still under warranty.Mine had been in storage for 4
years before i bought it.

Again thanks for your concern.Happy traveling,

Dave

Thank You Dave for letting me know that you are up and running again. Got your second PM that mentioned your well on your way home.

Rich.

[rlbarkleyii]

`Have a Cummins I*SB 5.9 and it recently started throwing codes on my ScanGauge. Showed code 254 continually. went to Cummins and had it put on Insite System, they tell me I need a lift pump and V 44 pump, 10 hours labor @ 129.00, $2800 for the re-manufactured  OEM V-44 pump, $200 for OEM lift pump. Total bill quoted over $4600.00 with tax.

Anyone know of a quality shop in the MACON GA area to put in the pump?  Or a well recommended shop within 200 miles of Macon.

  

 

 

[jleamont]

rlbarkleyii, just curious, did they tell you what caused the V44 to fail or are they changing the lift pump for a precaution? How many miles on the coach?

[wildebill308]

For parts you might look hear. The Airdog lift pump is a popular replacement over the stock pump. I don't know any shops in your area. 

http://www.thoroughbreddiesel.com/bosch/vp44-24month-airdog-combo.htm#12

Bill

[rlbarkleyii]

On 6/1/2016 at 8:12 AM, jleamont said:

rlbarkleyii, just curious, did they tell you what caused the V44 to fail or are they changing the lift pump for a precaution? How many miles on the coach?

I was told that the VP44 failed because of poor lube which probably resulted from lift pump not producing proper pressure. IN addition high temperature is thought to have fried the computer in the VP44 pump, again caused by low pressure from the lift pump. 

[dickandlois]

25 minutes ago, rlbarkleyii said:

I was told that the VP44 failed because of poor lube which probably resulted from lift pump not producing proper pressure. IN addition high temperature is thought to have fried the computer in the VP44 pump, again caused by low pressure from the lift pump. 

Your description of the sequence of events would result in the failure of the VP-44 injector pump.

You might want to consider a pressure sensor circuit and a LED or pressure gauge(Located at the interment panel) in the output side of the second fuel filter and the input to the injector pump.

Rich. 

[jleamont]

29 minutes ago, DickandLois said:

Your description of the sequence of events would result in the failure of the VP-44 injector pump.

You might want to consider a pressure sensor circuit and a LED or pressure gauge(Located at the interment panel) in the output side of the second fuel filter and the input to the injector pump.

Rich. 

Rich, do you have a recommendation for a device like this?

[dickandlois]

6 hours ago, jleamont said:

Rich, do you have a recommendation for a device like this?

The one that comes to mind is BD Diesel. they have both a gauge system and a pressure switch that goes in the fuel line going to the injector pump that closes when the fuel pressure drops below 5psi or higher depending on the fueling system. I like the pressure switch and LED setup. A red LED lights-or flashes when the pressure drops below (5psi. in my case) When it starts to wink at me I know it is time to replace fuel filters or the lift pump.

Rich.

ECM units tend to measure flow rate not pressure !

[jleamont]

Great kit but it would require some mods to fit an ISL. I would need a block for the sensor and fittings to locate it after the secondary filter since my coach is plumbed with JIC hydraulic type fittings.

[rlbarkleyii]

I have figured out a solution to the problem of monitoring the lift pump operation. I am installing a 0-30psi electric guage in dash and running a three conductor jacketed cable minimum 18 GA. from junction box in front dash area to similar junction in rear chassis area close to primary fuel filter. Running double sensor line 18GA from junction box to primary fuel filter at rear. White connector (ground) to a large copper lead that positively grounds to body of the sensor, the black lead to the sensor terminal.  Installed sensor in snubber valve to reduce pressure surges and installed snubber in special banjo bolt  1/4" drilled and tapped,  installed  banjo bolt replacing stock bolt in outlet of fuel filter (bottom). Wire up sensor to wire to junction box. One lead (white) in junction box will go to negative side of crank battery to insure good ground at sensor, the other lead (black) will go to front dash 35' - 40'  to gauge. The rest of the install is typical for analog gauge. This setup will provide me with a gauge in the dash that will monitor pressure to VP-44 pump real-time and give me a indication as to when to change my primary fuel filter.  All parts were bought from Amazon. Members interested in specific parts list, item numbers, cost, contact me via message.

[jleamont]

rlbarkleyii, have you read this?