Carrol Report post Posted March 17, 2014 "You cannot base your purchase on what you see along the roadside" This says it all--Just assume when you see a big box with the hood up and smoke pouring out, the happy owners stopped to use their luxurious bathroom. You also want to turn a blind eye to all the posts that describe what a financial and emotional disaster their purchase of one of these gems has been. Don't even consider that the cheerleaders for these babies often have 300K "invested" in something that wouldn't sell for 1/3 of that and they have a little bit of denial going on and may not be seeing the world for what it is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
huffypuff Report post Posted March 17, 2014 A big box with its hood up would be a class C. Class A generally don't have hoods but access covers and 300K would more likely be a diesel pusher with the engine in the rear. As for money invested, all RVs lose their value as soon as you drive it off the lot. It's the same with cars. I purchase a new Cadillac and it lost a chunk of value as soon as I drove it off the lot. Should I buy something cheaper instead for less comfort? I will not, because when I drive I enjoy the comfort of both the Cadillac and my cushy RV. The payment on the RV is just another car payment to me, so why worry about that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
huffypuff Report post Posted March 17, 2014 Small correction to Ray's post -- today most Class A's, either gasoline or diesel, are built on chassis NOT made by coach builder. For gas, Ford (since Workhorse left the business). For diesel, most are Freightliner or Spartan, though there ARE a very few coach makers who do build their own chassis as well. Monaco used to make quite a few of their own chassis, but no longer-- they are now on Freightliner chassis. Yes Monaco as well as other RV manufactures has changed hands often since the economy went down and caused a big hit to the RV market. That made them to build them cheaper outsourcing some big items such as chassis. Some of the other chassis makers got brought out by Freightliner to cut competition. My last coach chassis was made by Oshkosh and not making coach chassis in the US anymore. Last I check Monaco and Holiday Rambler still use the Roadmaster chassis. I know because they sent me an ad for 2015 Monaco Dynasty. Opps I stand corrected, I just look up and Roadmaster is now a custom modified Freightliner chassis. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
five Report post Posted March 17, 2014 RVs are in one of the following three conditions: - It just broke. - You just fixed it. - It's getting ready to break. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
huffypuff Report post Posted March 18, 2014 Yes, sir, Allegiance. And can I add upgrading? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MadHungarian Report post Posted March 18, 2014 You know, as a mechanic I have found there are two kinds of vehicle owners in the world, whether it's cars, motorhomes, or pickup trucks - there are the people who realize that no matter how well built a vehicle is there is bound to be a repair needed sooner or later - because it's a machine and machines break. Then there are people who think a vehicle should last forever and not have a problem or need maintenance - and usually those are the people you see broken down on the side of the highway, because they were either too lazy or too cheap to do any preventive maintenance before they went on a trip. My old Coachmen class C got a complete going over when I got it so there wouldn't be that nagging question in the back of my mind about whether or not it was going to make it while driving up the highway. I personally tore this thing down and did the water pump & fan clutch, alternator, all the belts, complete tune-up, new carb, oil change, etc., etc., etc. because this is a 28 year old RV with 70,000 miles on it and I know that stuff breaks. I'd take this thing anywhere, anytime. The thing I really like about it is it a Chevrolet chassis - you can just about buy parts for this thing at KMart if you need something or it lays down on the side of the road in the middle of Podunk, USA. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
medico Report post Posted March 18, 2014 Yes, maintenance is the key. I would bet many of the rigs you see along the road with their hoods up (Class C) or their access doors open (Class A front engine) or their rear doors open (Class A DP) did not have maintenance done on a regular basis. I just had my engine oil and fuel filters replaced on my DP even though I only put 5000 miles on it in the last year as it has been a year since it was done previously. We are taking an extended trip this summer and I do not wish any unexpected problems. Please point out a few of these posts describing the "financial and emotional disaster". I do not actually see too many of these. I regularly participate in 4 different RV forums. Yes there are people that have problems. As already stated ALL RVs have problems. New RVs (no matter the class) have bugs to be worked out. Any RV without the appropriate maintenance will suffer unexpected problems. Older RVs have systems that are wearing out over time. I do not believe folks that have Class A RVs are any more prone to a disaster than any other. In fact, because we do have more expensive RVs, perhaps we take precautions to ensure regular maintenance is done. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carrol Report post Posted March 18, 2014 Please point out a few of these posts describing the "financial and emotional disaster I do not actually see too many of these" I believe you are being honest that you do not see the horror stories but this isn't because they aren't prevalent-- it is because you have a world class case of denial which is a very powerful condition, FYI issues that come up in the first 50,000 miles of a 21st century vehicle are defects plain and simple. This fact is recognized in the auto industry, the light truck industry and the heavy truck industry, The only group that does not recognize this are RV buyers such as yourself who believe that if an RV falls apart in the first year it must be because the oil wasn't changed often enough. The quotes below are all from the very first entry in the Class A section of this forum--finding stories like these is no harder than finding sand on the beach We have owned our Storm for one year & the poor thing is just falling apart: slide outs leak, kitchen sink is rusted, hot water heater quit working, shower floor is broken, rubber slide seals are torn, entry door is not set properly in coach & makes terrible noise while going down road - when we get to destination we can hardly get out, driver & passenger windows do not sit tightly in groove & rattle when driving (loudly), screws on outside of coach are rusted, shelves in cabinets fall down when driving because they are cut too short, and the cherry on top .... The generator does not work! I could go on and on. My 2012 Holiday Rambler Vacationer was in the shop for the better part of the Spring/Summer and Fall season ( roughly 7 months ) However the hassles and inconveniences for us have been significant - including time without the coach, vacations cancelled, and every time repairs are completed the coach seems to come back with more issues. The ownership experience thusfar has been a significant stress on our family. Of the 17,000 miles on our coach probably 5,000 if them have been to and from the repair center I bought a new Class A in 2004 and it spent the first two years in the shops with 2 or 3 trips back to the factory Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elkhartjim Report post Posted March 18, 2014 I give thanks for the powerful condition I have - denial. Now if you really want to put denial to work for you, go over to the Jeep forum. A Jeep is the stastically the most unreliable vehicle ever made, yet we tow them and enjoy going topless (top down) whenever we get the chance. Yep...I've got a big case of denial. Thank you God! I know I'm contibuting to the hijacking of this thread and I apolgize to the OP for that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
huffypuff Report post Posted March 18, 2014 Now someone on here is saying class C is better while pointing out same problems with the RV unit, not chassis. All RV and equipment have all the same problems regardless of class. Why do we have to keep going over this? Thanks Jim Sims, I think denial should go to owning any RV. Oh in my early years I had to send my travel trailer back to the factory because of defect. Wallpaper shrink, cabinets coming apart, factory said I shouldn't tow over bumps and park in hot sun. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfe10 Report post Posted March 18, 2014 Carrol, I see you have made a total of 4 posts-- all very negative on RV ownership. Admittedly, they can have problems/cost $$, but so can any other complex "toy" like a boat, airplane, etc. What do you own and what are your experiences with it? What point do you want the rest of us to take away from your posts? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
campcop Report post Posted March 18, 2014 Wow, I am grateful for all the thoughtful responses. We spent the day visiting a few more dealers and have probably ruled out the Class Cs because the chassis seems a bit petite if the manufacturer makers it into a 33' so we have probably narrowed it to the A Class and Super C Class. A salesman at a dealership that sells the Super Cs built on the Chevrolet 6500 chassis made an interesting offer--He will buy steak dinner for 4 if we can find any motorhome other than a Class A that a manufacturer has had to buy back because of lemon laws--He claims that the Chevrolet portion of the motorhome he's selling is identical to millions of other medium duty Chevrolet trucks in use and that a breakdown is extremely rare, and a breakdown that the Chevrolet mechanics can't repair is unheard of. If anyone can refute his claims the steak dinners are all yours. In most states, Lemon Laws are for automobiles and not MotorHomes.....check your particular state for those details.....and Chevrolet has had to buy back many vehicles over the years so no one is perfect...I would stay away from that dealer. We have owned small pop ups, two travel trailers and one 33' Fifth wheel...all had problems and the most were on the 5th wheel and this was a very good brand...We then went up to a Class A but stayed with a Gas chassis, a Vista with Ford V-10,,,this MH has performed flawlessly for the time we have owned it but it did have a few problems that were remedied by the Manufacturer....After owning just about all the types of MHs except the C's (too small for the price) we would never go back from a class A, in fact we just ordered a new Class A, a little bigger etc. Have your parents take a look at the gasser Class A, less $ and in shorter sizes, sounds like a 32' would suit them ... good luck on your search.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MadHungarian Report post Posted March 19, 2014 Now someone on here is saying class C is better while pointing out same problems with the RV unit, not chassis. All RV and equipment have all the same problems regardless of class. HuffyPuff, I'm assuming you are referring to my post, and that's not what I said brother.... I was pointing out that it doesn't matter whether you have a $250,000 Class A or a $3000 Class C like mine, it all boils down to: A. Making sure that maintenance gets done so that it doesn't break down on the side of the road, and..... B. Finding someone reliable enough to be trusted with your RV repairs that'll do them right the first time. BTW - Like I posted above, I personally happen to just like the Chevy chassis for its simplicity and ease of finding parts.... not that the class A chassis is a dog or is more expensive to get parts for (although, I can't help but believe it is). I can go to any parts store in Podunk USA and either get or order parts for this thing, and it serves my purposes. A place to sleep, a place to cook, and a place to.... well, you get my drift..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfe10 Report post Posted March 19, 2014 Opps I stand corrected, I just look up and Roadmaster is now a custom modified Freightliner chassis. Ray, Yes, you got my gray cells working. So, being at the FMCA Convention in Perry right now, went to talk with Mike Snell with Monaco and had him walk me through their chassis (bare chassis in their display). They buy the front and back "sections" from Freightliner and then they build their custom bridge between them. Looks more rigid than the "just frame rail" chassis and are able to move tanks to balance weights (inside fully enclosed basement area). He said the "ride and drives" by owners of older Monaco products saw the new product as an improvement (ride and handling) from the original 8 bag suspension. Those who own the older 8 bag who have actually driven the new-generation Roadmaster/Freightliner chassis, PLEASE CHIME IN -- I have no firsthand experience with it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
huffypuff Report post Posted March 19, 2014 HuffyPuff, I'm assuming you are referring to my post, and that's not what I said brother.... I was pointing out that it doesn't matter whether you have a $250,000 Class A or a $3000 Class C like mine, it all boils down to: A. Making sure that maintenance gets done so that it doesn't break down on the side of the road, and..... B. Finding someone reliable enough to be trusted with your RV repairs that'll do them right the first time. BTW - Like I posted above, I personally happen to just like the Chevy chassis for its simplicity and ease of finding parts.... not that the class A chassis is a dog or is more expensive to get parts for (although, I can't help but believe it is). I can go to any parts store in Podunk USA and either get or order parts for this thing, and it serves my purposes. A place to sleep, a place to cook, and a place to.... well, you get my drift..... I didn't quote you and know that isn't what you said. I'm still not talking about chassis. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
huffypuff Report post Posted March 19, 2014 Brett, Yes I read about the bridge and wonder how they can still call it a Roadmaster. I have to call it a Roadliner or a Freightmaster. I think I stick to my 8 bagger until the big rig with the independent front suspension gets proven. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carrol Report post Posted March 19, 2014 From Wolfe10, What point do you want the rest of us to take away from your posts? I want this elderly couple to know that for every big motorhome they see in a campground there is another one in a repair shop. The area we live in has several RV manufacturers and there are always hundreds of them that have had to return for repairs -- likewise, our motels always have hundreds of guests with the same sad story -- they stretched themselves really thin financially to buy their dream coach and it's nothing but a troublesome money pit. What do you own and what are your experiences with it? Our RV is a 96 Lance camper that is permanently attached to a 96 F-250 and we travel with a couple who drive a class C Lazy Daze. Both of these setups are nearing 100,000 miles and have never been in for repairs. This isn't at all miraculous; it is what the buyer of a modern-day vehicle should expect. The big-box builders have promoted the idea that RVs are so complicated that a buyer should expect breakdowns, but that is complete nonsense. Breakdowns are the result of substandard manufacturing, which unfortunately is the norm in that segment of the RV world. The bottom line is I'm really tired of seeing nice families taken to the cleaners by these manufacturers and want prospective buyers to know what they're in for. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
medico Report post Posted March 19, 2014 So you've never lived in a MH! You are basing all your observations on the numbers of coaches in for work. Did you ever think that many of these coaches are in for maintenance, or upgrades, or remodeling, or owners mistakes that broke something? The few stories you seem to quote are all for lower end or entry level coaches, as some of the responses to those posts indicate. Lower end coaches are similar to lower end TT or 5ers or truck campers. The quality is lower, the fit and finish is lower and they tend to have many more cosmetic problems. We all know that the first year or 2 of any RV's life is where the bugs are worked out. Many of the problems that occur in the units you seem to love are repairable by their owners so these units don't go back to the shop. There are always exceptions to these facts, but because you seem to have something against those of us that do have nice coaches, you are raging against all nice coaches. I am not in "world class denial" at all. I am basing my responses on the coaches that have been "in the shop" when I was. We all know that the people who have problems are the most vocal. For every bad experience that gets talked about there are many happy owners that do not talk about their good experience. After all the "squeaky wheel gets oiled". In my case I had one problem with my coach that I had 2 dealers work on to solve. It was a problem with the hydro hot unit and was DIRECTLY related to lack of maintenance by the former owner. While I was in the shop having this problem fixed (paid for by my original dealer) there were many other coaches there. I took 2 days to get my coach into the lube shop to have my annual oil change done because so many others were there for that chore. There were several coaches who's owners had hit something with slides, which subsequently had to be repaired. There were at least 4 coaches that were going through upgrades and remodeling, and yes, there were a few coaches that were being repaired. Do not assume that all coaches in the shop are there due to repairs! Plus while we were there, the numbers of bays with TT or 5ers were equal to the numbers of bays with coaches. One other thing you have to realize, most TT or 5ers or truck campers such as yours are NOT lived in FT. These are PT units. Anything lived in FT (such as a nice coach) will ultimately require more maintenance and perhaps more repairs than a unit that is used PT. These FT units get a LOT more use that PT units that might go out a few weekends a year and perhaps a couple of weeks during vacation. Much different from living 24/7 in a coach! By the way, you say you own a Lance Truck Camper, correct? If so, how is it that you are a member of FMCA? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kingfr Report post Posted March 19, 2014 My father used to say that he would not have an automobile with power windows because "that was just another thing to break". I think that I see a bit of that line of thinking in this thread! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillAdams Report post Posted March 19, 2014 for every big motorhome they see in a campground there is another one in a repair shop. This is, or course, just silly. Look at all the cars in for repairs at the 10's of thousands of dealers around the Country. Based upon that information alone, no one should ever buy a car. If you go by an RV dealer that specializes in trailers and 5th wheels, you would come to the same conclusion since there would not be one single Class A in for repairs and you could conclude that Class A's are great and trailers are the money pit. The reality is that stuff breaks, but "generally" the better made any product is, the less time it will spend in the shop. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CWorthy Report post Posted March 19, 2014 Shopper, to answer your question you should understand that Class A motorhomes are the "time share" of the RV industry. Time shares have a 93% customer dissatisfaction rate and financial advisers unanimously say they are a terrible investment, but nonetheless they have a devoted band of supporters. There is no dispute that Class A s require frequent repairs and depreciate faster than a speeding bullet, but as you can see from this thread they have a very devoted following. To most people the amount per night of use that either one of these recreation options cost would be a deal breaker. but to the people who love them they make perfect sense and those folks get a lot of enjoyment out of them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
huffypuff Report post Posted March 19, 2014 Slide in camper to class A is like comparing apple to oranges. Enough said and is way off the original person question. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnParker Report post Posted March 19, 2014 I am new here but am not new to the RVing lifestyle. You said your parents were contemplating a tour of the U.S. Would that be all in one bite? Or over several seasons a little at a time? They might want to start with a medium size 'C' to find out how to navigate and operate the unit in a variety of situations. Then move up to something more spacious and comfortable. My suggestion would be to look at some of the RV ratings for reliability and suitability for full-timimg. Select a few of the models that they think are suitable and get the ratings and comparisons from a service such as JD Power. With the economic downturn many of the manufacturers cut some corners so that the year of manufacture makes a big difference. Good luck! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillAdams Report post Posted March 19, 2014 Investment? NO! No RV is a good investment. Not even part of this discussion. I agree that like a time share an RV (every RV) is a bad investment. Buying new makes it even worse but everyone already knows that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shopper Report post Posted March 19, 2014 Well this is certainly a spirited and informative discussion. One post hit very close to home: My father used to say that he would not have an automobile with power windows because "that was just another thing to break". My father also thought power windows were a poor choice because the benefit of being able to operate a widow with a button rather than a crank was trivial, but the idea of the widow being stuck down in a snowstorm was a significant detriment. To use this analogy I think the best choice for our family would be the "manual window" of motorhomes. I'm encouraged that Lance and Lazy Daze seem to offer this in the smaller units and hope to find the same qualities in a larger unit--Are there any specific brands someone could suggest? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites